Math and Science courses?

[cwarrior]

There are so many computer science programs out there and I have been looking through the curriculum and while all have a lot of computer science classes, some have more math classes than others.

In my opinion I don't believe that a lot of more than the following courses calculus, algebra, discrete math, probability and statistics are necessary.

I also believe that no science courses should be mandatory but should be given as electives.

I have talked to different comp sci graduates from different countries and they always tell me that the math they need in their jobs they can do with their calculators.

[Tony]

cwarrior @ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:05 pm wrote:

I have talked to different comp sci graduates from different countries and they always tell me that the math they need in their jobs they can do with their calculators.

I bet that none of them work as Computer Scientists though.

As for science -- http://compsci.ca/blog/chemistry-for-software-engineers/ should get you started.

[Prabhakar Ragde]

If you believe that, then go somewhere that doesn't make you take more than the minimum set of courses you list. As you say, there are plenty of programs out there. You might think a bit, though, about why the best ones make you take more than that.

[SJ]

cwarrior @ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:05 pm wrote:

In my opinion I don't believe that a lot of more than the following courses calculus, algebra, discrete math, probability and statistics are necessary.

I also believe that no science courses should be mandatory but should be given as electives.

woah woah wait a minute, i thought Computer Science, other than learning the syntax for languages, is pretty much math. isnt it? I agree that the sciences are not as important (funny how it's called computer SCIENCE though), what do you suggest people take in place of those math courses?

[Dan]

Even if you where doing a Computer Science degree just to be a programmer you still need the proper grounding in many mathatical topics to understand the concecpts that are being thought and how the algortims you are using work.

As for science corses (chem, bio, phis, etc) they are less crictical however they are offtent required to ensure you have some grounding in the scientfic method and to ensure you have more dervsisity in your education then just math coruses.

If you don't care about how anything works and just want to code then Computer Science is proably not the right program for you and you should be looking in to a programming degree offered at the collage level.


Edit: I should also note that we have had long topics about this in the past that you might be intrested to take a look at, such as: http://compsci.ca/v3/viewtopic.php?t=15328

[jbking]

cwarrior @ Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:05 pm wrote:

In my opinion I don't believe that a lot of more than the following courses calculus, algebra, discrete math, probability and statistics are necessary.

Are there other Math courses that don't fit into one of those categories?

[Tony]

combinatorics, optimization, graph theory...

[cwarrior]

@Tony isn't graph theory and combinatorics part of discrete mathematics? and optimization part of calculus?

[Tony]

well if you take graph theory as a specialized application of discrete math, and treat the latter in its broad sense -- then I'm with jbking on this one: what else is there?

[Prabhakar Ragde]

SJ is right. It isn't possible to cleanly separate "computer science" from "math". In a broad sense, CS is applied math.

If the OP meant broad categories and not four courses (considered a minimum in CS accreditation), and is willing to stretch the categories so that, for example, logic is considered "discrete mathematics", then I suppose you can squeeze everything in with sufficiently many courses. Not all optimization is calculus (cf linear programming, which you can pretend is algebra, though again it is a stretch).

But, to play devil's advocate, why are calculus and algebra (which, at the university level, is linear algebra) on the list? These are rarely directly used by CS grads, either.

The only thing I use a calculator for is my taxes, unless you include spreadsheets, which I use for marks.

[cwarrior]

so what is the difference between computer science in universities such as waterloo and UofT and computer science in universities such as York and Ryerson.
I mean what makes the program in waterloo so much popular or prestigious than other programs?

[Prabhakar Ragde]

We ask more of our students, and we try to limit offers of admission to those we think can deliver.

[jernst]

cwarrior @ Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:41 am wrote:

so what is the difference between computer science in universities such as waterloo and UofT and computer science in universities such as York and Ryerson.
I mean what makes the program in waterloo so much popular or prestigious than other programs?

Toronto is one of the best research universities in Canada and is well known for discoveries and professors across many fields (Their website claims that CS grads from Toronto are in almost every CS faculty in the country. The exposure to this adds some value to the degree you receive from there.

Waterloo has good connections with industry from spinoffs/connected companies (OpenText, RIM, Sybase, Google's Waterloo Office among others) and co-op. Waterloo also is unique in that professors and students own their ideas while they are working there and are free to commercialize them. This is not the case at many other universities in Canada. This environment likely brings some of the best professors in the country to work at Waterloo.

Both Toronto and Waterloo offer generous funding to grad students (in comparison to some schools), which means they are likely to attract some of the best students in the country. As an undergrad you may get a chance to work with these people if you end up on a research project somehow. These top students will also likely end up being your TAs and graders. At some schools (WLU for example where I attended my undergrad, the profs either did everything or they hired senior undergrads, or TAs from other schools to do this). The profs at some of the other schools may not focus much on research. This can be good and bad - for example they have more time to devote to teaching, but may not be as current without participating in research.

[Dan]

cwarrior @ 12th March 2009, 11:41 am wrote:

so what is the difference between computer science in universities such as waterloo and UofT and computer science in universities such as York and Ryerson.

I think the best way you can find an awnser to this question is to look in to the universities your self. Go to the campus, talk to students and profs there and see witch one you like.

It's about finding the university that you think you can learn and study the best at, not neseraly what university has the best reputation.

The truth is all univesrityes in Ontario will give you a quality education in your field of choice, but it is up to you to use the resources they give you.

[Prabhakar Ragde]

jernst @ Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:41 pm wrote:

Toronto is one of the best research universities in Canada and is well known for discoveries and professors across many fields (Their website claims that CS grads from Toronto are in almost every CS faculty in the country. The exposure to this adds some value to the degree you receive from there.

Waterloo has good connections with industry from spinoffs/connected companies (OpenText, RIM, Sybase, Google's Waterloo Office among others) and co-op. Waterloo also is unique in that professors and students own their ideas while they are working there and are free to commercialize them. This is not the case at many other universities in Canada. This environment likely brings some of the best professors in the country to work at Waterloo.

Both Toronto and Waterloo offer generous funding to grad students (in comparison to some schools), which means they are likely to attract some of the best students in the country. As an undergrad you may get a chance to work with these people if you end up on a research project somehow. These top students will also likely end up being your TAs and graders.

All of this is true, and yet all of this is minor compared to what I said -- that we expect a lot of our students. If we just treated them as if they were at Basketweaving U. and were incapable of doing anything, none of the above would make any difference at all.--PR