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 Rant about studying for exams
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mirhagk




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:15 am   Post subject: Rant about studying for exams

So I've never been a huge fan of studying, that's just not the kind of learner I am. I've always done well in the classes that focus on understanding, analysis and grasp of subject matter, rather than memorization of that subject matter (classes more like math, computer science and english, instead of history or chemistry, biology etc). I've recently gotten really frustrated with some courses and exams lately because of the incorrect focus on memorizing facts instead of understanding concepts or skills.

Here's my problem with studying, when you study your going over stuff you've already learned. That means that everything you need to study is stuff you've forgotten in the 120 days or so since the start of the class. Now you do the exam, and let's say you pass. Well what happens 5 years later when you graduate with your degree and actually have to use that information? You don't see a lot of people studying on the job (academics not included) because in intellectual jobs you seldom have no access to materials like google, or book references to help you remember. Everything you studied for that exam is useless, because there's no way you remember it anymore, so your just left with understanding, analysis and the skills instead of that raw information.

To me a well designed exam should be testing your ability to grasp the information, your understanding and your skills. It should not be testing things that take under a minute to look up, such as the year Christopher Columbus arrived in north america. Rather it should focus on questions about the material, making sure you understand what happened, and what the significance of it is.

Talking specifically about computer science, you should NEVER be marked on syntax on an exam, unless it's a on-computer exam where you can easily check the syntax. Rather you should be marked on your understanding of the algorithms and concepts. A specific example is in one university course where the teacher made them memorize special characters in ASCII, and tested them by saying "What's the ASCII for C? What's the ASCII for carriage return?". Any developer working closely with ASCII would actually know most of these, but that's only because they use it on a day to day basis. It's nearly a guarantee that the first ~20 times they did a google search for it. So that exam tested material that was utterly worthless, and it's true for many exams as well. An example of a good question would be to ask what the difference is between lower case letters and upper case letters (32 is the right answer) beacuse that shows you know that the difference is in a single bit, and that doesn't require memorization. An ever better question would be to ask why there is only a bit difference and have the student explain the reasoning behind the ASCII code.

It's better to know why something is what it is, instead of knowing what it is. It's better to understand algebra when doing equations of motion rather than memorizing all the nearly identical variations of essential the same formula. It's better to know why hydrogen and oxygen can form water instead of H+H+O+energy=H2O.

In a good exam, you should not have a significant advantage by getting access to google, a textbook, a cheat sheet or anything that you would have access to while using those skills. A good exam should not allow people to pass through without an understanding of the concepts, people who simply memorize everything the teacher and the textbook say, and regurgitate it on the exam. This would help eliminate the problem of copy-paste programmers, and start helping those who have terrible memory, but amazing comprehension and understanding, that would be extremely valuable to nearly any field of study. If you can give your exam to an expert in the field, and they can fail it, the test is the true failure. Einstein (and countless other lazy geniuses) should not have failed school simply because they refused to study, they should only have failed if they didn't get the concepts. </rant>
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Insectoid




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:46 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Well, that's the way it's done, and that's the way it'll keep being done. Everyone knows high school only teaches enough to pass the exams, and most first/some 2nd year classes do this too. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

But see, the problem here is that if they did actual exams, university would be hard. Yeah, I know, it's supposed to be hard, but it would be more hard. High school students generally don't know how think, and that's pretty much what your first few uni semesters are supposed teach you, whatever your major.

Even math exams spend a lot of time on plugging numbers into memorized functions. It's silly.


But yes, exams suck. If we'd teach kids properly, and let the failures fail, we'd not have this problem. But that's never going to happen because kids aren't allowed to fail anymore. There's a reason a degree is needed for so many jobs these days, and part of that reason is (probably) that a high school diploma doesn't actually mean anything. It just means that you didn't skip class every day.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:22 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Yeah, I agree that schools let too many people pass. School needs to teach people how to learn, how to reason, as well as some basic skills and knowledge, and then school can focus on learning things instead of just babying people until they are out of it.

Right now 90% of high school seems completely useless.
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:36 pm   Post subject: Re: Rant about studying for exams

mirhagk @ 2012-08-26, 11:15 am wrote:
Here's my problem with studying, when you study your going over stuff you've already learned. That means that everything you need to study is stuff you've forgotten in the 120 days or so since the start of the class. Now you do the exam, and let's say you pass. Well what happens 5 years later when you graduate with your degree and actually have to use that information? You don't see a lot of people studying on the job (academics not included) because in intellectual jobs you seldom have no access to materials like google, or book references to help you remember. Everything you studied for that exam is useless, because there's no way you remember it anymore, so your just left with understanding, analysis and the skills instead of that raw information.

This paragraph makes me wince. I would be flabbergasted if any professional developer didn't have access to online materials and references in general. Usually it's the exact opposite. Regardless of what you've learned as a student, you go into the job with only vaguely applicable knowledge. You then consult references till your brain hurts and only then can you start putting that knowledge to use.

When it comes to exams in university, even if you have a good understanding of the concepts while participating in the course, you quickly forget that information afterwards. The rare exception is when you have some opportunity to apply those concepts in other courses or work. However, the nature of CS courses in university makes such situations hard to find unless you're going into academia. The core of what you're left with after courses in university is an exposure to the material, and yes, hopefully a more open mind. That way, when and if you ever return to that material, you will have a reference point.
Insectoid




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:54 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Quote:
Right now 90% of high school seems completely useless.


Yep. Guess what? University math is no harder than high school math. It's just different. There's so much math that you don't get taught in high school that you probably don't even know what math is until university. We're lucky that a good chunk of the math we learned is useful for computer science but most students are wasting their time because they will probably never use the math they learned.

Oh, and English? Yeah, you won't need that after grade 9 (10 if you're stupid). Everyone (except the learning impaired) should be able to read & write well by then. Everything you learn after grade 9 is pointless. I don't think you can teach literary analysis, but you can definitely discover it. All English teaches you are words like 'tone' and 'mood' so that you have a word to attach to the meanings you discover on your own.

In fact, you probably don't need any more high school after 9th grade except the classes you need to do what you want. Those last 3 years are pretty much just a maturing period.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:52 pm   Post subject: Re: Rant about studying for exams

[quote="[Gandalf] @ Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:36 pm"]
mirhagk @ 2012-08-26, 11:15 am wrote:
You don't see a lot of people studying on the job because in intellectual jobs you seldom have no access to materials like google, or book references to help you remember.

This paragraph makes me wince. I would be flabbergasted if any professional developer didn't have access to online materials and references in general. Usually it's the exact opposite. Regardless of what you've learned as a student, you go into the job with only vaguely applicable knowledge. You then consult references till your brain hurts and only then can you start putting that knowledge to use..[/quote]
My point exactly. You may have misread my post however, so I emphasized it for you. Working for a professional software company, there is no-one there that doesn't consult the great google at least once a day, and that's because most of the day we are actually in meetings or reading documentation and system specs. When we aren't googling, we are poring over old software and stealing stuff from there. Trivia is useless in a job, but analysis and debugging skills are important.

I've had a few good courses, for instance some math courses emphasized on how all the formulas were derived, and how everything worked. Sure the test had to mark you on applications of those, but at least most of the marks came from the work rather than having the right answer (so if you forget to carry down a negative, it doesn't matter that much).

I think high school has a lot of potential for useful skills. English could be a very awesome and necessary course if it looked at your ability to analyze something, and write, and helped you do both. But instead English is focused on remembering the teacher's analysis, declaring what the theme or the mood is (usually just remembering what the teacher said about it) and useless writing formats (like hamburger style essays, which are never used again in life). Logical deductions should be a required course, where you learn things like:
A->B B->C therefore A->C
and the VERY important:
A causes B. not B means not A. IT IS FALSE TO SAY B means A.
Then problem solving should be another one, very useful for computer science, Making life decisions (ie explaining that university is supposed to be only if you are doing an intellectual job, not just because you want to party and your parents are rich) should be a major one. After we teach important skills we can then introduce them to subject matter that might intrigue them, and then only those capable of doing an intellectual job, and those that are interested will go to university. The rest can save $50 000 and 5 years of their life and maybe do an apprenticeship, or just get started working.
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:34 pm   Post subject: Re: Rant about studying for exams

Ah right, sorry for misreading! I was confused by this...
Quote:
You don't see a lot of people studying on the job (academics not included) because in intellectual jobs you seldom have no access to materials like google, or book references to help you remember.

I understood studying to mean reading references, learning, etc., while I assume you meant it more as raw memorization. Your overall post makes much more sense now. Razz

I don't think what you're referring to is a systematic problem. It sounds like you've just had some particularly bad luck with teachers and poorly designed tests. The problems you describe are all very avoidable. However, learning isn't all about concepts and high level thinking. To apply concepts you need to memorize. Imagine having all the concepts in the world, but being unable to communicate in a language that others understand... unable to memorize the words to express yourself. Raw memorization is bad, when you couple it with understanding and you get expertise.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:04 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

yeah you are right, eventually you need to memorize things, but most things should be memorized by use, which will stay in memory, rather than by a studying session.

And I do believe it is a systematic problem, not every test/exam requires raw memorization, but a large number do. If you learning something that will actually be useful then you shouldn't need to study (except maybe a after class review to ensure you understand, and a quick look at an overview before the test). I see far too many exams/test based on memorizing someone else's work rather than doing your own. I almost flipped out about my english exam when the teacher had us come up with essay questions, then he picked a couple for the exam. He then had people break up into groups and write up essay outlines. I was like "so.... what are you testing here? The ability for us to leech off of other's ideas?"
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[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:53 pm   Post subject: Re: Rant about studying for exams

Every definition requires memorization, and basically every subject has plenty of definitions. In Computer Science, definitions can sometimes get very detailed and specific. There's no way most of those definitions are going to stay in your long term memory, regardless of how you study (Aside: I take exception to your usage of "study". Studying can be a whole lot more than a memorization session. Studying can simply mean practicing.) I think it's a personal decision. How much of the specifics do I actually care about? How well will I remember the broad concepts by studying the specifics vs not? Do I need to pass through this material so I can move on to something I care more about? Choosing not to study before tests is really way too idealistic and I think ignorant. Life is full of memorizing things, forgetting them, remembering them, and so on.

On the other hand, here is a great post on the CompSci.ca blog that supports your views.

http://compsci.ca/blog/how-to-study-for-computer-science-exams/
mirhagk




PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:51 am   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

I 100% agree with that post, and I do actually believe it's gaming the system, because the exam is no longer testing your actual knowledge, it's testing your raised temporary knowledge.

I agree practicing and review is a good idea, however I believe in a continual process of practicing and reviewing, not a cram session at the end before exams. You should do a weekly review of what you've learned, just to connect it all together, and you should put what you learn into practice (especially in compsci) but doing it the week before exams I don't agree with at all.

I totally do the exact same thing before my exams, relax, get some sleep, and maybe construct a small cheat sheet for me to quickly memorize before going into an exam (for those exams where things like formulas must be memorized). It has worked out well enough for me so far, as I've always done well on exams, better than most people that cram the entire exam week.

You should always be prepared to take a pop quiz on the subject matter, you shouldn't get a chance to study for it, because studying is essentially cheating.
Raknarg




PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:29 am   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

I'm probably a bit late, but I've been having those ecaxt thoughts for some time now. One of my biggest pet peeves is how math is taught at schools. I think that is the sole reason most people hate it, is because it's just a giant info dump. Here's a bunch of useless garbage you will literally never use, and here's some procedures to solve this useless garbage. Rather, the focus should be on explaining why things happen. The best example is with graphs. There's actually a lot you can learn about them, but teachers treat is as "If you do thess certain things, this stuff happens." To most people it doesn't make any sense, and so n ow it's just a bunch of numbers and incomprehensible equations.

Why does a parabola move when you do this to it? How did someone come up with this certain procedure to solve this? I've taken to trying to help classmates by teaching the concepts this way, and it makes way more sense to them that way, and they were able to solve things without my help soon.

That's just one example, though. I'm sure this applies to everything else mirhagk talked about
mirhagk




PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:53 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Yeah that is true, school has a lot to improve on. Although I think one of the biggest things to emphasize is that our graduation rates are way too high, especially in university. University should be only for the elite, those likely to use their degree, and high school should be for the capable (ie people who are huge failures should actually fail)
Raknarg




PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:34 pm   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Wouldn't that create a lot of unemployment? It seems that high qualification jobs are pretty abundant in Canada, and the lower you go the harder it can be to find work. Depending on your skillset, of course.

Maybe thats a lie. In any case it's true that the system needs some revamping.
Insectoid




PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:24 am   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Quote:
It seems that high qualification jobs are pretty abundant in Canada


These weren't always high qualification jobs. They became high qualification jobs due to the increasing number of highly qualified people. Why hire deadbeat dropouts when you can get a university student? They might not be any better at the job, but they're university students so they're smarter and have better work ethics, right?

If university was harder, and next year half as many people graduated as last year, and half as many people graduated high school, you'd very quickly see a lot of jobs ditch their degree requirements. We wouldn't have nearly as many unemployed english majors, because there wouldn't be so many english majors.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:28 am   Post subject: RE:Rant about studying for exams

Insectoid has it perfectly right. Ask your parents how difficult it was to get a job coming out of high school. There used to be very few jobs that required any sort of post-secondary education, and many that didn't even require secondary school.

The trades (mechanics, woodworkers, contructors etc) especially used to not require any sort of education, it was a job you got and then were done. Now they do, as do most jobs. Even skilled jobs (ie compsci) shouldn't really REQUIRE a degree, because it's something you can learn on the job, or through an internship (better for every party involved) Only very high skilled jobs (doctors, lawyers etc) should require a degree, jobs where it makes a difference in terms of life and death.
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