Programming C, C++, Java, PHP, Ruby, Turing, VB
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Programming C, C++, Java, PHP, Ruby, Turing, VB  

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wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:19 pm   Post subject: Give me a reason to stay

I came here in hopes I could inpart a bit of my knowledge, and I see a lot of examples of that not happening. I write over and over again about why IDEs are bad for beginners, and they flock to them in droves, then post about the myriad problems they have... that never would have arisen in a command-line environment. I tell people not to tackle languages like C, C++, Java, etc. as their first language (or first after Turing)... and they do anyway, then post questions that never would have arisen if they'd listened to me...

How many people here think I'm a crackpot who doesn't know what he's talking about?
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[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:39 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

No, don't leave Sad, you have got to be at the very top of contributing members, and personally, I really do think you are the best programmer here. There's always going to be some people who do not listen, but then for every one of them there is someone who does. Usually.

I wrote the whole tutorial on how to get started without IDE's to make it easier for people, but they seem to just want to take the 'windows' approach. Too bad for them, they lost a good learning tool. Personally, I started C++ because I had long thought of it, and I didn't really want to go for any other language since I had enough of that kind of programming from Turing. That's since I have been using Turing for something like 4 or 5 years!

Anyone who thinks you are a crackpot is more than probably something like it themselves, they don't know what they are talking about. If they stayed long enough they would be proven wrong.

I, for one really want you to stay and think you are a huge addition to our community. You have helped me get a fairly good starting grip on C++ when otherwise I think I would have given up, and I think I will benefit from that extra knowledge and help. Don't get discouraged because of the people who don't listen and will probably not get anywhere far. It would be a big loss.
Cervantes




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:54 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

No wtd! Say it isn't so!

The sad truth is no matter how much wisdom you've got and no matter how much you tell them otherwise, there will always be people who choose to go their own way.
However, there are plenty of people here who recognize and heed your wisdom. Don't feel down if some don't; that's unavoidable, no matter who you are.
Those people who go elsewhere (Java, C++, etc.) will stumble, as you suggested; they will need help. You are an incredible contributor, wtd, and helping all the misguided souls would be much more difficult without you.

Perhaps you should put links to such topics as What Programming Language to Learn? in your signature, in the hope that when you make a post advising learning different language, the person will then follow that link and get a detailed explanation.
Martin




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:00 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

I, on the other hand, think you're a crackpot. Apple computers? Ruby? Yeesh...

Razz
wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:03 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Martin wrote:
I, on the other hand, think you're a crackpot. Apple computers? Ruby? Yeesh...


Degenerate Microsoft fanboy.

Wink
wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:05 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Cervantes wrote:
Those people who go elsewhere (Java, C++, etc.) will stumble, as you suggested; they will need help. You are an incredible contributor, wtd, and helping all the misguided souls would be much more difficult without you.


Yet, every time I help someone with one of these languages, I just make it easier for them to stay on what is, at that point in time, the wrong path.

Also, if I'm a good contributor... where's the interest in the stuff I post? Most of it never garners a single reply.
md




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:20 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Well... some of it is about languages I personally have no desire to learn... I think you should stay because you do help those who need it; even if they are doing the wrong thing (although learning C++ isn't nessarily wrong). I think in the end though the only reason for you to stay is because you want to. And who knows; maybe taking a break from helping people out and just posting interesting code (preferably code in C/C++ or pascal or basic so I can understand it Wink) is all that is really needed.
wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:26 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Cornflake wrote:
(although learning C++ isn't nessarily wrong)


As I said, it's the wrong choice at certain points. Early in one's education, it has no redeeming features for someone with no previous experience (or with just Turing experience) learning to program.
Cervantes




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:29 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

wtd wrote:

Also, if I'm a good contributor... where's the interest in the stuff I post? Most of it never garners a single reply.

One could argue that you make things so clear that there is no need to ask questions. Smile
rizzix




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:40 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

wtd wrote:
Also, if I'm a good contributor... where's the interest in the stuff I post? Most of it never garners a single reply.
Its not your fault,, i know what you mean.. just give it a year or two,,, some generations are usually less interested than the others..

As to why ppl opt for C++/Java given that they have been warned, it's cuz those are the most popular languages out there! They believe so anyways, and they could be right !?! These folks hate being left out-of-touch from the rest of the world.... "missconception! the world uses a lot more languages, than the boring old C++ or Java", and so you say. Yes.. but they dont see it that way... after all most of them haven't even heard of a language called Perl or Ruby or Python,, until they actually visit this site (or some other site for that matter).. but C++, heavens! thats the most talked about programming language in the world!

Now as for the comments or replys to your various posts.. well look at the age group we are targeting here... highschool students! i mean hey, they have the shortest attention span you can possibly imagine.. they only look for the most exciting thing they can do,, and quickist thing they can possibly do. Yes they are impatient, which is problematic: you'd need to device a totally new style of tutorials to grab their attention, but of course if only you are really all that interested: maybe something more animative? ugh!

They want to show off their skills to their friends.. And the quicker they can get it done the better it is.. If it takes too long, they will drop it, and go with the shottest other alternative.. as for those who are _actually_ interested in programming,, they prefer to take the more _popular_ route and it's like this: the popular ones first,, the others later,, but only if they still sustain that same drive or interest.

Oh well.. get over it!.. You'll observe that some generations are quite different from the others: they prefer to take the "best advised" path to programming.
rizzix




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:41 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Cervantes wrote:
One could argue that you make things so clear that there is no need to ask questions. Smile
Thats not what he meant.. Maybe a little "thank you"??
wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:03 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Here's the thing folks:

You want to learn the most popular programming language out there. That's a good idea, right?

You couldn't be more wrong.

Learn the most popular language and you'll be a little fish lost in a sea of sharks. Do something different and you can stand out and do something meaningful.
Delos




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:56 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Well, Turing is about as different as they get Very HappyVery Happy. Then again, I doubt it actually counts as a programming language.
Now you do realize that if you left some person would sick the FBI/mounties on you, since we *really* can't have Clones walking about. Especially Tony's!

I guess this is a good a time as any to tell you that for some reason (probably your old avatar) I've always read your name as "what the duck". Just me. No, I don't want to know what it really means. You'll always be 'what the duck' to me.
wtd




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:11 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Delos wrote:
I guess this is a good a time as any to tell you that for some reason (probably your old avatar) I've always read your name as "what the duck". Just me. No, I don't want to know what it really means. You'll always be 'what the duck' to me.


Heh. It's a short version of "Welcome to Darwin", which is the message you get upon opening a terminal window in Mac OS X. My avatar was Hexley, the Darwin mascot.

And Turing counts as a programming language. Just not an especially great one.
Mazer




PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:42 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Delos wrote:
I've always read your name as "what the duck". Just me. No, I don't want to know what it really means. You'll always be 'what the duck' to me.

It wasn't just you. We talked about it way back when on the IRC channel (y'know, the one that everyone always goes to), but I agree, it'll always be what the duck.
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