Given the circumstances will Math kill me in Ryerson University?...

[Jonab12]

I plan to take Computer Science at Ryerson in the Fall. And to my shock I learned the completion is rate is a mere 68% (compared to 75 for U of T and 85 for Waterloo). But its a very good university according to some and its really well funded.

Although I am really good in computers and programming strangely I am not the best in math.

I am projected to get:

75 - Advanced Functions
70- Physics
85 - Data Management
80 - English
78 - Computer Science
[] - Calculus in Summer

Ryerson courses

Calculus
Discrete Mathematics
Physics
Computational studies
Liberal studies


I have the work aptitude to work hard but throughout high-school problems were tedious to me. In Comp Sci I would make the best GUI and have the best organized code but when it came to linked lists I suffered and was constantly in confusion for that course.

Looking at my computer achievements so far I have built servers, made applets, got taught how to configure switches, took electronics. I help with the tech crew of my school and the Comp Sci club. And all I want to do is program but math takes a long time for me to understand

---

I glanced at Bit-wise Notation and the Big O to study for Discrete Mathematics and I had to research, ask around and spend some time to get it. In university maybe I wont have the time because everything is semestered and short. I don't know...


Advise???

[Tony]

I'm not sure where you are getting those completion rates from. My understanding is that 40% of UWaterloo CS students don't continue past 2nd year (though they probably still graduate with some other degree).

Ryerson is likely not as demanding as UWaterloo and UofToronto are, but you'd need to be able to pick up on Linked Lists and Big-O such that you'll understand both really well.

Are you sure that you want to pursue CS? It really has very little to do with hardware and GUI.

[crossley7]

I'll go along with Tony on this point for CS as from what I have seen, there are a lot of people that fail out first year math (not just CS... first year is the same for both programs essentially) and CS is a lot of theory. You won't get many hardware type or gui courses in a CS program and probably won't be able to until about 3rd year (at least that is the case at Waterloo, not sure about other schools). Make sure you enjoy doing math and are solid at it before you choose to pursue CS.

[DemonWasp]

To back up what crossley7 is saying, university-level Computer Science programs are really about Computer Science (the study of computers) rather than programming. Any programming you do is basically incidental: you have to show that you understand the theory, and developing an application or writing a snippet of code is sometimes the most direct way to do that.

At UWaterloo, you won't encounter the following until at least third year: databases (CS348), operating systems (CS350), concurrent/parallel programming (CS343), user interfaces (CS349). Courses like graphics, networks, distributed systems, machine vision, machine learning, and artificial intelligence are all fourth-year courses. There are no courses on programming, per se; you are expected to learn several languages (at least Scheme, C, C++ and Java at UWaterloo) on your own.

Any computer science program is going to involve a LOT of math. As an example, here's a list of the math courses that I've taken (the ones that I've passed anyway):
Math 135 Classical Algebra (required)
Math 136 Linear Algebra I (required)
Math 137 Calculus I (required)
Math 138 Calculus II (required)
Math 236 Linear Algebra II (required)
Math 238 Calculus III
Math 239 Introduction to Combinatorics (required for some CS degree types)
Stat 230 Probability (required)
Stat 231 Statistics (required)
AMath 331 Applied Real Analysis (one of a few options for a requirement)

In addition, I took several "CS" courses that involved zero programming:
CS245 Logic and Computation (required)
CS341 Algorithms (required)
CS360 Theory of Computing (one of a few options for a requirement)
CS370 Numerical Computation (either this course or CS371, which is very similar, is required for a CS degree)

[A.J]

I wouldn't say that CS341, CS370/371 requires zero programming, but yes the emphasis is on the theory. Nonetheless, you should have a liking for some of the topics (may it be AI, Algorithmic programming, or just programming in general) if you intend to take CS, because I know of many people who got into CS just for the heck of it and aren't really enjoying themselves at all.

[shire2]

All you have to do is take the time to fully understand each thing, for example what is it about linked lists that confuses and I'm sure you can find many great explanations online. But i didn't learn about linked lists and big-o until this past year (my first year at uoft) so you're already ahead which is good.

[Jonab12]

Tony @ Fri May 03, 2013 7:56 pm wrote:

I'm not sure where you are getting those completion rates from. My understanding is that 40% of UWaterloo CS students don't continue past 2nd year (though they probably still graduate with some other degree).

Ryerson is likely not as demanding as UWaterloo and UofToronto are, but you'd need to be able to pick up on Linked Lists and Big-O such that you'll understand both really well.

Are you sure that you want to pursue CS? It really has very little to do with hardware and GUI.

In regards to my sources I went on each University website (e.g. http://www.utoronto.ca/about-uoft/measuring-our-performance/cudo/cudo_2008/other.htm - you can scroll down to see undergrad rate)


Also this is important to know...

I feel Computer Science is the only way to go. There are so many people in the world who have the basic knowledge of computers, they know how to build one, many have made websites, tech support is everywhere and
there are virtually no jobs. If I pursue this degree not only will I go into something I like but I will be secure, it will be dynamic to a degree and Il enjoy it. CS is the top level computer course. I don't want anything less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmM_xDzy2nU - There was a video similar to this that said in the year 2020 over 400,000 CS jobs will be left empty due to a lack of graduates from the program. Isnt that a secure feeling? Also I love devlopment despite my average level of logical thinking.

I feel I know so much in terms of concepts but I don't want my Jack of All Trades level of thinking to mitigate my ability to do well in the logical aspect of University.

[andrew.]

You listed some hardware-related achievements in your original post. How did you like them?

I'm currently in computer engineering at UW and I like the balance between hardware and software. So far, our software courses have had practical programming in it (not as theory based as CS). And our hardware courses are interesting too. I'm just wondering if you've thought about going into computer engineering or if it's something that interests you.

[Jonab12]

andrew. @ Thu May 09, 2013 11:31 am wrote:

You listed some hardware-related achievements in your original post. How did you like them?

I'm currently in computer engineering at UW and I like the balance between hardware and software. So far, our software courses have had practical programming in it (not as theory based as CS). And our hardware courses are interesting too. I'm just wondering if you've thought about going into computer engineering or if it's something that interests you.

I am not planning to transfer to Computer Engineering or pursue it in the future, I want to go into Development.

I feel my hardware achievements have been easily attainable and again- its a matter of doing something above my means and above all levels.

[Tony]

Jonab12 @ Thu May 09, 2013 9:09 am wrote:

Tony @ Fri May 03, 2013 7:56 pm wrote:

I'm not sure where you are getting those completion rates from. My understanding is that 40% of UWaterloo CS students don't continue past 2nd year (though they probably still graduate with some other degree).

In regards to my sources I went on each University website (e.g. http://www.utoronto.ca/about-uoft/measuring-our-performance/cudo/cudo_2008/other.htm - you can scroll down to see undergrad rate)

which says

Quote:

The subset was then matched against the records for students who received a degree (in any program) from the same institution during the most current seven year period (1999 to 2005).

So at UofT 75% of students who entered CS received some degree within 7 years. It is implied that some number less than 75% received a CS degree.

CS is a good program, just be aware that many students don't make it to the end for various reasons. Though being this determined and looking that far ahead into your future likely gives you an advantage over others.

[Jonab12]

I just want to be ready and I want to graduate without wasting time or resources. (like everybody..)

Its just it hurts me knowing that many of my classmates in my math courses are able to solve problems faster than me, and several of them aren't pursuing a degree full of math.
I don't want to stress over the fact I wasn't born a left sided individual who can solve problems in the blink of an eye... TBH my math marks are average to the course in my
school. (Yet half of my school is getting an 80%+ average and we have AP classes for almost everything because of our high academic ability)


How can I prepare myself?

[Tony]

(I deleted your duplicate post)

You can prepare yourself by figuring out why you think you are not performing as well as you want in those classes. A large part of University will be learning how to learn (unfortunately high school doesn't prepare you as well as it should in this regard).

It can be a combination of amount of practice, quality of practice, other study habits, etc. Studies show that top performers (in any field) actually practice their skills for fewer hours, but they do it very consistently and at a difficult level. Grinding out many hours of easy math problems that you already know how to do will get you a skill improvement of 0.

[Jonab12]

Tony @ Thu May 09, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:

(I deleted your duplicate post)

It can be a combination of amount of practice, quality of practice, other study habits, etc. Studies show that top performers (in any field) actually practice their skills for fewer hours, but they do it very consistently and at a difficult level. Grinding out many hours of easy math problems that you already know how to do will get you a skill improvement of 0.

I never thought about it that way. I always thought there are just so many concepts that skipping the basic ones and moving on to the hard ones will just confuse you. I don't believe this- that top performers study less by moving to harder concepts without mastering basic ones. It just amends the fact that they are gifted.

Do you think that Universities take prepared students or are their mark requirements are subject to competition?

[crossley7]

What you do is you understand basic concepts quick enough that you apply them to harder problems and in the process of learning harder problems you learn the easier concepts really quickly because they are required knowledge for harder ones. keep repeating this process and you force yourself to learn how to learn which contrary to what they teach you in high school is not through hundreds of repetitions but a good grounding in fundamentals and then using those to solve hard problems.

However, the best of the best do often have a gift for understanding the concepts quickly but that is also something you can get by discovering the ways you learn best and applying those methods to your learning.

Universities take the students who are most likely to be prepared and since there isn't many good indicators of success, universities tend to use marks. However students with lots of extra curriculars tend to get in a bit easier partly because to be involved in many of those activities it requires a certain mindset and skillset that increases the chances of university success.

[[Gandalf]]

Jonab12 @ 2013-05-10, 8:31 am wrote:

Tony @ Thu May 09, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:

(I deleted your duplicate post)

It can be a combination of amount of practice, quality of practice, other study habits, etc. Studies show that top performers (in any field) actually practice their skills for fewer hours, but they do it very consistently and at a difficult level. Grinding out many hours of easy math problems that you already know how to do will get you a skill improvement of 0.

I never thought about it that way. I always thought there are just so many concepts that skipping the basic ones and moving on to the hard ones will just confuse you. I don't believe this- that top performers study less by moving to harder concepts without mastering basic ones. It just amends the fact that they are gifted.

Practicing something that is difficult is not the same as practicing something that is beyond your level. The point is to challenge yourself while practicing, so that you can then tackle something that is beyond your previous level.