Should I outsource web development to india?

[kolodost]

I don't know much about web development, only learned the very basics of html and php stuff long time ago. Now I have a great business/website idea that I want make it into a real thing. But I find its hard to find computer people who are willing to partner up with me to start a company and build this website. So recently I have been think about getting an Indian company to build it, and I hire someone to operate it. What are the disadvantages and potential pitfalls of outsourcing? Do you guys recommend it?

[Tony]

Doesn't have to be India. You can outsource with just as much success to U.S. or to a local high school kid. Whatever. The quality per dollar is not as different as one might think, since all 3 groups can do remote work just the same.

Considering that (sometimes) India offers better tech opportunities than Silicon Valley[1], you get what you pay for ? anywhere in the world.

Your biggest pitfall will be that you are not technical. There is no quality control, so it will probably take you a while to catch on just how bad the produced codebase is.

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2011-05-10-tech-talents-leave-silicon-valley_n.htm

Quote:

Silicon Valley may be the cradle for tech start-ups, but some foreign-born executives, engineers and scientists are leaving because of better opportunities back home, strict immigration laws here and California's steep cost of living.

[kolodost]

Tony @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:02 pm wrote:

Doesn't have to be India. You can outsource with just as much success to U.S. or to a local high school kid. Whatever. The quality per dollar is not as different as one might think, since all 3 groups can do remote work just the same.

Considering that (sometimes) India offers better tech opportunities than Silicon Valley[1], you get what you pay for ? anywhere in the world.

Your biggest pitfall will be that you are not technical. There is no quality control, so it will probably take you a while to catch on just how bad the produced codebase is.

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2011-05-10-tech-talents-leave-silicon-valley_n.htm

Quote:

Silicon Valley may be the cradle for tech start-ups, but some foreign-born executives, engineers and scientists are leaving because of better opportunities back home, strict immigration laws here and California's steep cost of living.

Is it economical to have programmers to modify it or patch it up later on? Cuz the difference in pricing is quite large.

[Tony]

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:17 pm wrote:

Cuz the difference in pricing is quite large.

I don't think you understand. The products you are looking at are quite different.

Think of it this way -- I want to enter a car race, but don't know how to build a car. Engineers are quite expensive, but I guess I could buy a consumer sedan; maybe even pay extra to have a real Engineer look at it after. This obviously isn't even the same game as custom-build cars that are maintained during the race.

Did you know that 747s can re-tune their engines while in flight?[1] Startups are much the same way. You make some assumptions, start building a product, and then users take the company in a completely different direction. Things change and break. New features are requested. Etc.

I suppose I should admit that this depends on the actual idea, and we might be thinking of different things. If the idea is to have some simple website that will host some sales copy and email you order forms for a product that you have... sure, that requires minimal maintenance and could probably work.


[1] http://boingboing.net/2011/09/25/747s-as-flying-unix-hosts-scada-in-the-sky.html

Quote:

The engineers could actually access the engine management system of a 747 in route. If issues are noted, they can re-tune the engine in air.

[2goto1]

If your great business idea is highly commoditized and requires minimal management / collaboration with your team, or you don't really care what they create, as long as it vaguely resembles your vision, outsourcing can work. Think of it like hiring a house painter - you tell them the colours and where to paint, and the chances of them screwing it up are pretty low.

If your great business idea is in the incubation / strategy / business model development phase and you expect that your team will significantly contribute towards the development of the business model in addition to significantly contributing to the design, you probably would benefit from hiring locally.

If you think that the product will undergo hundreds of iterations and you expect the process to happen efficiently and you expect communication to be frequent, then you probably would benefit from hiring locally.

If your scenario is more akin to designing and implementing a state of the art highrise building versus painting a house. you would benefit from bodies being readily available in the same office or city for maximum benefit.

So assuming your idea is state of the art and initial outsourcing is a bad idea, if you anticipate the development costs being great, and wouldn't mind losing company equity for investment capital, think tactically - what is the minimum critical path that you would need to build into a working prototype that would be compelling enough to raise startup capital with? Then from there, start with sweat equity plus your own dime. Or if your idea is sheer brilliance and your magnetic personality is enough to convince developers to partner with you - investing their time and energy for $0 or low pay combined with company equity - then you have some other creative avenues to go as well.

[kolodost]

Thank you. I started a company based on having quite creative people in terms of business ideas and art designs. What we lack are people who we trust and afford to build them into cool websites for us. So I came up with an idea to start with the simplest website business which does not require immense capital investment, and has a good chance of cash flow. From there we have a platform to attract talents, and eventually develop a team of good web developers to work on other more interesting business idea. I guess the answer is that the website I want at this point in time is not a complicated one, its more of a business idea that services a gap in the market.

Tony @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:33 pm wrote:

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:17 pm wrote:

Cuz the difference in pricing is quite large.

I don't think you understand. The products you are looking at are quite different.

Think of it this way -- I want to enter a car race, but don't know how to build a car. Engineers are quite expensive, but I guess I could buy a consumer sedan; maybe even pay extra to have a real Engineer look at it after. This obviously isn't even the same game as custom-build cars that are maintained during the race.

Did you know that 747s can re-tune their engines while in flight?[1] Startups are much the same way. You make some assumptions, start building a product, and then users take the company in a completely different direction. Things change and break. New features are requested. Etc.

I suppose I should admit that this depends on the actual idea, and we might be thinking of different things. If the idea is to have some simple website that will host some sales copy and email you order forms for a product that you have... sure, that requires minimal maintenance and could probably work.


[1] http://boingboing.net/2011/09/25/747s-as-flying-unix-hosts-scada-in-the-sky.html

Quote:

The engineers could actually access the engine management system of a 747 in route. If issues are noted, they can re-tune the engine in air.

[kolodost]

Hi, thank you. I would say its more like craigslist than etsy, but better art design than craigslist of course. =)

2goto1 @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:37 pm wrote:

If your great business idea is highly commoditized and requires minimal management / collaboration with your team, or you don't really care what they create, as long as it vaguely resembles your vision, outsourcing can work. Think of it like hiring a house painter - you tell them the colours and where to paint, and the chances of them screwing it up are pretty low.

If your great business idea is in the incubation / strategy / business model development phase and you expect that your team will significantly contribute towards the development of the business model in addition to significantly contributing to the design, you probably would benefit from hiring locally.

If you think that the product will undergo hundreds of iterations and you expect the process to happen efficiently and you expect communication to be frequent, then you probably would benefit from hiring locally.

If your scenario is more akin to designing and implementing a state of the art highrise building versus painting a house. you would benefit from bodies being readily available in the same office or city for maximum benefit.

So assuming your idea is state of the art and initial outsourcing is a bad idea, if you anticipate the development costs being great, and wouldn't mind losing company equity for investment capital, think tactically - what is the minimum critical path that you would need to build into a working prototype that would be compelling enough to raise startup capital with? Then from there, start with sweat equity plus your own dime. Or if your idea is sheer brilliance and your magnetic personality is enough to convince developers to partner with you - investing their time and energy for $0 or low pay combined with company equity - then you have some other creative avenues to go as well.

[kolodost]

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:31 pm wrote:

Thank you. I started a company based on having quite creative people in terms of business ideas and art designs. What we lack are people who we trust and can afford to build them into cool websites for us. So I came up with an idea to start with the simplest website business which does not require immense capital investment, and has a good chance of cash flow. From there we have a platform to attract talents, and eventually develop a team of good web developers to work on other more interesting business idea. I guess the answer is that the website I want at this point in time is not a complicated one, its more of a business idea that services a gap in the market.

Tony @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:33 pm wrote:

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:17 pm wrote:

Cuz the difference in pricing is quite large.

I don't think you understand. The products you are looking at are quite different.

Think of it this way -- I want to enter a car race, but don't know how to build a car. Engineers are quite expensive, but I guess I could buy a consumer sedan; maybe even pay extra to have a real Engineer look at it after. This obviously isn't even the same game as custom-build cars that are maintained during the race.

Did you know that 747s can re-tune their engines while in flight?[1] Startups are much the same way. You make some assumptions, start building a product, and then users take the company in a completely different direction. Things change and break. New features are requested. Etc.

I suppose I should admit that this depends on the actual idea, and we might be thinking of different things. If the idea is to have some simple website that will host some sales copy and email you order forms for a product that you have... sure, that requires minimal maintenance and could probably work.


[1] http://boingboing.net/2011/09/25/747s-as-flying-unix-hosts-scada-in-the-sky.html

Quote:

The engineers could actually access the engine management system of a 747 in route. If issues are noted, they can re-tune the engine in air.

[2goto1]

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:31 pm wrote:

Thank you. I started a company based on having quite creative people in terms of business ideas and art designs. What we lack are people who we trust and afford to build them into cool websites for us. So I came up with an idea to start with the simplest website business which does not require immense capital investment, and has a good chance of cash flow. From there we have a platform to attract talents, and eventually develop a team of good web developers to work on other more interesting business idea. I guess the answer is that the website I want at this point in time is not a complicated one, its more of a business idea that services a gap in the market.

You should be able to build or buy a classifieds / auction platform on the cheap, but as far as generating cash flow from it for other investments, that might be a challenge since there are already thousands of highly commoditized classifieds / auction sites out there. Assuming your website would actually be cash flow positive at some future point in time that you set as your goal, it sounds like a potential candidate for offshoring. Trust doesn't come cheap, caveat emptor with fly by night dime a dozen sweatshops that you know little or nothing about, it's a risk

[kolodost]

Thank you. Its not a classified/auction platform, it something that is more or less untapped by the internet but the idea is simple.

2goto1 @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:59 pm wrote:

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:31 pm wrote:

Thank you. I started a company based on having quite creative people in terms of business ideas and art designs. What we lack are people who we trust and afford to build them into cool websites for us. So I came up with an idea to start with the simplest website business which does not require immense capital investment, and has a good chance of cash flow. From there we have a platform to attract talents, and eventually develop a team of good web developers to work on other more interesting business idea. I guess the answer is that the website I want at this point in time is not a complicated one, its more of a business idea that services a gap in the market.

You should be able to build or buy a classifieds / auction platform on the cheap, but as far as generating cash flow from it for other investments, that might be a challenge since there are already thousands of highly commoditized classifieds / auction sites out there. Assuming your website would actually be cash flow positive at some future point in time that you set as your goal, it sounds like a potential candidate for offshoring. Trust doesn't come cheap, caveat emptor with fly by night dime a dozen sweatshops that you know little or nothing about, it's a risk

[Tony]

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:33 pm wrote:

Hi, thank you. I would say its more like craigslist than etsy, but better art design than craigslist of course. =)

Design wasn't necessary for craigslist success. It might help, but it's not differentiating enough on its own. It would be hard to compete on price, since craigslist is run almost as a non-profit anyway (virtually all, but few select, categories are free).

A number of startups were able to fill a niche by specializing on just one specific category of craigslist. Think "sublets / short-term rentals" => AirBnB; "for sale / arts+crafts" => Etsy. Etc. Etc. But that also shows that if you can grab one of those categories that has not been exploited, and execute well, there are precedents for success. You might be on to something. Good luck!

[kolodost]

Thank you. =)

Tony @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:31 pm wrote:

kolodost @ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:33 pm wrote:

Hi, thank you. I would say its more like craigslist than etsy, but better art design than craigslist of course. =)

Design wasn't necessary for craigslist success. It might help, but it's not differentiating enough on its own. It would be hard to compete on price, since craigslist is run almost as a non-profit anyway (virtually all, but few select, categories are free).

A number of startups were able to fill a niche by specializing on just one specific category of craigslist. Think "sublets / short-term rentals" => AirBnB; "for sale / arts+crafts" => Etsy. Etc. Etc. But that also shows that if you can grab one of those categories that has not been exploited, and execute well, there are precedents for success. You might be on to something. Good luck!