Opinion on U of T comp sci programs

[crossley7]

I am thinking of applying to 2 Waterloo programs and 1 Toronto program but haven't decided on which campus, trying to decide between St. George and Scarborough.

I am leaning toward Scarborough for the co-op program, but St. George has the Professional Experience Year or whatever it is called which is similar and still gives the work experience, but it is all in 1 place. An thoughts about these 2? Prestige, courses? I was told that professors move from campus to campus and that you can take the courses basically at any of the 3 that you want, but not sure which degree looks stronger on a resume and if the co-op vs PEY is a big difference.

Also, the 2 Waterloo programs are Software Eng. and Comp Sci

[ProgrammingFun]

I'm pretty sure the St. George Campus looks much better on a resume than UTSC or the third one.

[Tony]

Definitely St. George.

A co-op program's usefulness sharply drops after you get that first experience on your resume. In which case PEY puts you in a much better position of having lengthy experience, presumably getting to do much more in-depth work than in a single 4 month term. You should easily be able to get your own 4 month long "co-op"s over the summer breaks after, and you wouldn't have to deal with any of co-op admin bureaucracy. (It seriously gets in the way at UWaterloo. So many students were dropping co-op that they've introduced new rules to continue charging you co-op fees for the entire undergrad duration).

PEY does carry more risk if your one and only employer turns out to be a bad fit though.

[crossley7]

Thanks for the input. I have another question related to McMaster Engineering/Comp Sci this time. It is a bit closer for me than my other options, but at the moment would be down the list a ways. Is it known to be a good program? Obviously Toronto/Waterloo are far above for comp sci, but just wondering if McMaster is near the top of that second tier. I have done a fair amount of research looking for this answer, but have been unable to find it to this point.

Truly I am only considering it if my visits to Waterloo and/or Toronto make me absolutely hate the campus and not want to go there regardless of how good the program is. (I feel confident with acceptance since I am around a 95% average for my top 6 courses that I will have this year)

[crossley7]

Sorry about the series of posts here, but what are the primary languages used at waterloo/u of t? I think I heard Waterloo primarily uses C++ but not sure about that and does toronto use java? Same question for ideal OS. Does it really matter, or is some version of linux likely best?

[Tony]

UWaterloo first year starts out with Scheme/Python to get everyone onto a level playing field and caught up. Then it's mostly C and Java, with some C++. Some select courses will let you pick your own language. Others are all Math (e.g. Turing Machines). I don't know about UofToronto.

Your OS doesn't really matter as long as you can SSH into school's linux servers -- the bulk of work is done there. Good terminal support will make things easier on you though.

[ProgrammingFun]

Tony @ Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:55 pm wrote:

UWaterloo first year starts out with Scheme/Python to get everyone onto a level playing field and caught up. Then it's mostly C and Java, with some C++.

o.O That's sad...all that I've learnt in highschool is Java (and a month of Turing).
Doing Python and then returning to it would be redundant in my opinion.

Do they offer any way to skip the beginner lessons if a student already knows Java or C?
Waterloo says that they believe that the IB program isn't enough for transfer credits, but my school tells me that the Higher Level CS course == first year university.

[Tony]

ProgrammingFun @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:50 pm wrote:

Do they offer any way to skip the beginner lessons if a student already knows Java or C?

First of all, you don't "know" Java or C -- http://compsci.ca/blog/you-dont-know-that-programming-language/ (although you might be familiar with the use of both).

Second, with the exception of the first year intro courses (which are now in Scheme) and CS246 (C++), none of UW CS courses teach you about the languages. You will not learn about programming. Java and C and whatever else are simply tools that help you apply the concepts that you'll learn about algorithms, data structures, operating systems, compilers, etc. For the most part, you'll be expected to pick up the languages used on your own.

[ProgrammingFun]

Thanks for letting me know.
This should make it easier to make decisions about CS...

From what I understand, we will learn logic, theory etc and any programs coded will be like DWITE...any language as long as it works/
Is that right?

[Tony]

Some courses will let you pick a language, typically from some set (at most, "anything available on the school servers"). Typically a language choice will be dictated, based on what prof/TAs are familiar with.

[ProgrammingFun]

Tony @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:59 pm wrote:

Some courses will let you pick a language, typically from some set (at most, "anything available on the school servers"). Typically a language choice will be dictated, based on what prof/TAs are familiar with.

Thanks.

[[Gandalf]]

ProgrammingFun @ 2011-10-31, 7:44 pm wrote:

From what I understand, we will learn logic, theory etc and any programs coded will be like DWITE...any language as long as it works/
Is that right?

There are also project courses which usually focus on one project in one specific domain. And, there are courses on graphics, software engineering, testing, programming language theory, graphics, etc.

I think basically all universities still do 'one or two courses teach you a language, and the rest are Java/C/C++/language independent'.

[ProgrammingFun]

[quote="[Gandalf] @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:56 pm"]

ProgrammingFun @ 2011-10-31, 7:44 pm wrote:

From what I understand, we will learn logic, theory etc and any programs coded will be like DWITE...any language as long as it works/
Is that right?

There are also project courses which usually focus on one project in one specific domain. And, there are courses on graphics, software engineering, testing, programming language theory, graphics, etc.

I think basically all universities still do 'one or two courses teach you a language, and the rest are Java/C/C++/language independent'.[/quote]
Thanks.
There are graphics courses?
I'm assuming they're stuff like Photoshop...so shouldn't the belong in a college or something of that nature?

[[Gandalf]]

ProgrammingFun @ 2011-11-02, 8:42 pm wrote:

Gandalf @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:56 pm wrote:

ProgrammingFun @ 2011-10-31, 7:44 pm wrote:

From what I understand, we will learn logic, theory etc and any programs coded will be like DWITE...any language as long as it works/
Is that right?

There are also project courses which usually focus on one project in one specific domain. And, there are courses on graphics, software engineering, testing, programming language theory, graphics, etc.

I think basically all universities still do 'one or two courses teach you a language, and the rest are Java/C/C++/language independent'.

Thanks.
There are graphics courses?
I'm assuming they're stuff like Photoshop...so shouldn't the belong in a college or something of that nature?

Hahaha, too bad it's a 4th year CS course or there would be lots of hilarity with arts students coming in expecting it to be Photoshop... No no.

UofT's 4th year Graphics course:

Quote:

Identification and characterization of the objects manipulated in computer graphics, the operations possible on these objects, efficient algorithms to perform these operations, and interfaces to transform one type of object to another. Display devices, display data structures and procedures, graphical input, object modelling, transformations, illumination models, primary and secondary light effects; graphics packages and systems. Students, individually or in teams, implement graphical algorithms or entire graphics systems.

UWaterloo's 4th year Graphics course:

Quote:

Software and hardware for interactive computer graphics. Implementation of device drivers, 3-D transformations, clipping, perspective, and input routines. Data structures, hidden surface removal, colour shading techniques, and some additional topics will be covered.

[SmokeMonster]

One of the perks of doing co-op is that you get a chance to try out several different jobs. In that sense this PEY thing seems incredibly stiffling. Seems to me it is geared towards encouraging you to make the "safe" choice rather than the "adventurous" choices that 4 month co-op terms encourage. Out of the schools you mentioned Waterloo is probably the better choice