Mac On a Laptop

[mirhagk]

So my girlfriend recently bought a pretty good computer (christmas 2009), and now she finds out that she needs a mac for school (they say teaching programs for macs are exclusive and much better).

I am looking into purchasing the OS itself, and attempting to install it on her computer, I figured spending $50 and even a day of flipping out trying to get it to work is still much cheaper than the $1500 needed for any decent mac. I know that the newest macs are all intel, they even use the same chipset (the i series), so I am to understand that it is definetly possible to install it.

What I would like to know is what are the hardware incompatibilities, for instance I'm not sure if she has the i-series (although it wouldn't be more than 1 series before that), and will things like the graphics card (its an AMD), her wireless card, webcam etc still work? I am also unsure about the legality of it (I know Canada generally takes a stance that a company can't tell you that you can't do what you want with the product, but not sure if this applies). I will update later with exact specs, but for now if anyone knows of any sites that explain how to do this/list hardware requirements/compatibilities, or provide drivers it'd be greatly appreciated.

Also I REALLY hope to get it working as a dual-boot (since her using the OS for everyday things will frustrate me when she has questions about how to do things). Perhaps I can look into boot camp or w/e since she has a valid windows key.

[ProgrammingFun]

Let's clear something up: Installing OS X on any non-apple device is illegal in every form (I am pretty sure) so to continue, your sense of being a law-abiding person must be checked at the door.
Why would you purchase the OS when it's illegal to install it where you want anyways?

Make your life easier...

Go into BIOS and check if the hardware supports hardware virtualization. If yes, enable it.
Get VMware Player (free) or VMware Workstation (better, and free with pirate discount).
Get a pre-cooked OS X already configured for VMware.
Get the VMware patch.
Start the program and you're good to go

I can't link here but you can get all that in one package. With VMware, you can treat OS X like any Windows program. In addition, you are given options to toggle tools such as webcam between the two OS-es. The best part is that if your girlfriend screws something up on OS X, it won't kill the laptop.

Otherwise, if you really want to dual-boot, this guide is your friend.

[andrew.]

ProgrammingFun @ Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:12 pm wrote:

Let's clear something up: Installing OS X on any non-apple device is illegal in every form (I am pretty sure) so to continue, your sense of being a law-abiding person must be checked at the door.

Actually, I'm not sure if it's illegal or just violates Apple's EULA. In any case, most likely at least one of the components won't work (Wifi, webcam, etc.) so you probably don't want to install it on a non-Apple computer. And running in a VM will be very slow compared to running it natively; she may not be able to do her work (depending on what she does).

My recommendation is to get a real Mac. They're totally worth it. No, it doesn't cost $1500 for a "decent" Mac. I'm in computer engineering at UW and I currently use the 13" i5. It's fast enough for all I do. If money is an issue, if she's going to a university, Apple has a student discount. I got $100 off my Mac when I bought it and right now they're offering an additional $100 in iTunes credit (so for the base 13" MacBook Pro, it'll cost you $1150 and you'll get a $100 gift card). Anyway, if it's still too expensive, check out Apple's Refurb store or something like Kijiji or Craigslist.

TL;DR: Don't waste your time trying to install OS X on a non-Apple computer. Buy a real Mac instead, either with the student discount or used/refurb.

[DemonWasp]

Try to find out what program they use and why it's "only available on Macs". There's a decent chance that someone along the line is a dirty liar and the program, or an equivalent, works just fine. $1000 is a lot to spend on a brand new computer when you already own a perfectly fine one.

[[Gandalf]]

DemonWasp @ 2011-08-28, 6:54 pm wrote:

Try to find out what program they use and why it's "only available on Macs". There's a decent chance that someone along the line is a dirty liar and the program, or an equivalent, works just fine. $1000 is a lot to spend on a brand new computer when you already own a perfectly fine one.

Unfortunately, I find that usually using an alternative program causes headaches when following instructions, especially if you're not already familiar with the program and not 'tech-savvy'. Heck, sometimes they purposefully make it difficult...

[rdrake]

Few things:

1. Installing OS X on a non-Mac is a pain. If your components are even slightly different it usually does not work. Even if it does, the most difficult things to get working are graphics and wireless (that is to say, there's a near zero chance that they will work properly).
   
2. Chances are they are filthy liars and the applications are available for other platforms as well. Find out the names of them, do some research, and see if there are alternatives. In addition, most universities/colleges have a Mac lab where she could do her assignments. In the case of using alternatives, she can double-check that her assignment submission is correct in the real program prior to submission that way.
   
3. Breaking the EULA shouldn't be illegal here. It is, however, a bit fuzzier in the US where this server is hosted. Thus discussions that are on the fuzzy side of the law should be avoided on the forums.
   

Most people have already stated the above, just thought I'd add some more weight to those who made correct points.

[mirhagk]

@andrew you proved my point, $1150 for what is essentially a netbook. Pretty sure that running a virtual machine would still be faster than a netbook.

@demonwasp, yes I do want to look into that, as I doubt it's software developed by apple, and if it isn't some company is REALLY limiting it's market if it only makes it for macs.

@programmingfun actually a vm is not a bad idea, it'll be slow yes, but the software is probably pretty lightweight if it is to run on a mac. Also I am 99.9999% sure it's not illegal. I actually talked to Apple support, and while Apple support is not allowed to actually help anyone (they are only allowed to link to their site, or say "wait for a patch"), they told me it wasn't illegal, but it was definetly not supported.

Also I believe in the US they voted that jailbreaking was legal since the company cannot restrict what you do with the device.

EDIT: http://osxdaily.com/2010/07/26/is-jailbreaking-your-iphone-illegal-not-anymore/

[Tony]

mirhagk @ Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:22 am wrote:

Also I believe in the US they voted that jailbreaking was legal since the company cannot restrict what you do with the device.

EDIT: http://osxdaily.com/2010/07/26/is-jailbreaking-your-iphone-illegal-not-anymore/

jailbreaking a _phone_ device. The same ruling was attempted to be applied to PS3 in geohot's case, but the case was dropped before a precedent was set.

[mirhagk]

Yes but this isn't even circumventing their security, it's merely installing their OS on a machine which they don't support.

[Insectoid]

Quote:

the software is probably pretty lightweight if it is to run on a mac.

Can you back up this claim?


It isn't worth it to install os x on a non-apple computer unless you desperately need it, AND you are prepared to put in a lot of effort AND you are capable of dealing with it should something go wrong. If your girlfriend isn't all of these things (she's at most the first case only, if even) she shouldn't even consider it.

Quote:

Yes but this isn't even circumventing their security, it's merely installing their OS on a machine which they don't support.

I agree with this. A EULA isn't law. If you break the terms of the EULA, Apple can terminate your services. Jail-breaking your phone, while legal, is against Apple's EULA, and while bricking your phone is harsh they are perfectly within their rights to disable updates, block access to the app store, and whatever else they want except terminate your telephone services (and even that they may be allowed to do. And if they aren't, they'll do it anyway via bricking).

rdrake- we should be freely allowed to discuss installing os x on non-apple machines. There is no law against it in Canada or the US, therefore it is legal. Until a court decides it is illegal we should be allowed to discuss it.

[mirhagk]

@insectoid, what I mean that if the school did not tell students they need a non-netbook mac, then the software is most likely lightweight enough to run on a mac netbook, meaning it's pretty lightweight (and not something like photoshop). Besides her schooling is for being a teacher, so I can't imagine it would be something so CPU intensive as media editing software.

Also as long as the effort required is not more than 150 hours she still saves money (since 150xminimum wage is approximately the price of a mac)

[Insectoid]

Quote:

the school did not tell students they need a non-netbook mac

Apple makes netbooks. They're just not a part of the Mac product line. Apple calls them 'iPads'. There are no mac netbooks. Why would the school need to specify that you need a powerful mac, when the new Air is beasty enough to anything short of rendering 3D video in real time. Do schools ever specify the minimum system requirements required of your computer in a given course? No. Sure, if you're doing autoCAD or something you absolutely must have access to the lab or have a computer that can run it.

Either way, I wouldn't install OS X on a computer that wasn't manufactured by Apple, that doesn't belong to me. The level of stress that can create for the other party is not worth it.

Quote:

Also as long as the effort required is not more than 150 hours she still saves money (since 150xminimum wage is approximately the price of a mac)

I've considered this idea many times in many situations in the past. It doesn't hold up. Time doesn't hold a constant value. I'd rather have a working mac out of the box for $1200 than spend 50 hours forcing a hackintosh to work. Unless ofc my objective is to create a hackintosh (in this case the objective is to have a computer running os x, which is very different).

I would ultimately wait until start of term and find out exactly what software the class is expected to use before bothering myself with this. Odds are most of the class won't have their own Apple computer either.

[mirhagk]

They say that the mac is absolutely required 3rd year, (and time for me holds the value of how much I would get paid for doing work doing that time).

And when I said netbook, I meant their 13" i3 computers, of which some netbooks beat. I may go with the virtual machine option if I can get to work/if it's legal (I will buy a valid copy of the OS for it)

[Prince Pwn]

Look up tonymacx86 and check out insanelymac. Those are two great hackintosh communities where you can see what components are hackintosh compatible, and which kexts or dstd hacks you'll need to apply. As for legality, it's only against Apple's EULA so don't worry.

[andrew.]

mirhagk @ Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:22 am wrote:

@andrew you proved my point, $1150 for what is essentially a netbook. Pretty sure that running a virtual machine would still be faster than a netbook.

I don't see how a MacBook Pro qualifies as a netbook. I've never seen a netbook with the same specs as a Pro. I may just be out of it, so please show me a netbook with the same specs as a Pro for the price. Also, running a VM will not be faster than running natively on a Pro. You should go to Best Buy/Futureshop/Apple Store and actually try a Mac before making up stuff about it.