What should I do?

[ppkufwe]

I'm having trouble deciding on a university for computer science in Canada.

I got accepted to University of Toronto (St. George and Scar) for computer science... both without scholarships or coop. I also have a $4000 scholarship to Carleton with coop for computer science. Which one should I pick? Right now I'm siding with Carleton but I'm unsure how reputable it is in computer science.

I heard UofT is insanely hard. Do you guys know which one would be better in terms of quality of life there and jobs afterwards?

What's the best concentration to get into? These are the ones I'm interested in:

Both:

- Human computer interaction

- Software engineering

Carleton:

-Computer game development

- Psychology

UofT

- Artificial Intelligence

UofT isn't on this site: http://www.cips.ca/ComputerScience ... should I be concerned?



Also I need to know what you think the cut off range is for Computer Science is. My marks are slowly declining, and I got accepted to UofT (St. George) with an average of 83.33, and worst reasonable case scenario could go as low as 82. Do you think they would reject me if it went that low? electronicinfo says it's 'low 80s'.


P.S.

Is the game development program at UOIT any good? I have a scholarship there.. I have a scholarship for a computer science program at Windsor too, but I don't think that's good school. Lastly does anyone know about Physical Sciences at Waterloo? Got in there as well but I kind of just randomly applied there.

[Tony]

Well... what do you want to get out of your University experience?

[ppkufwe]

Tony @ Thu May 19, 2011 5:34 pm wrote:

Well... what do you want to get out of your University experience?

To be able to grow socially and personally, and not be under a constant threat of hard work or failure. You say that as if they are equal or comparable; would you say that they are?

[Tony]

social parties and never worrying about failing any classes? Western is a good party school.

UofT will actually expect you to do your work.

[ppkufwe]

I didn't even apply to Western, and of course, I will work hard in University. Never mind the fact that I said that actually, what do you think of the two Universities?

[Tony]

UofT St. George is a really good choice, but (depending on just how well high school grades reflect future academic performance) expect that you might have to work harder than other students, just to keep up.

[Dan]

You get out of university what you put into it. If you are there to learn and devote your time to that task it can never relay be a failure so long has you have learned something and gained valuable life experience. There are students at all universities that try to coast through with as minimal effort as possible, weather they are kicked out or graduate does not relay matter in the long run as they will have learned nothing and simply wasted a large sum of money. The question you should be asking your self is "in what environment can i best learn?". I recommend visiting the campus and talking to the students and facility and see what best matches your learning needs. You may also want to look over there course calendars to see if there are any major differences in there programs that appeal to you.

For the most part a university degree is just going to get you the job interview, getting hired will be a matter of your experience in the field and the technical knowledge you demonstrate. Theses days most universities have co-op programs for Computer Science and have a somewhat similar curriculum, so you will be more limited by your own experience and effort you put into your education then the reputation of your university.

Part of your problem seems to be that you are not sure what program you want to be in. You may want to sort that out before you pick a university. Concentrations for undergrads are not a big deal compared to the overall program you are in (e.g. Computer Science) and mostly just determine what electives you will be taking. Most employers will not care so much about the the concentration as the actual program of study and your experience in the field. I recommend picking a concentration you are interested in and would enjoy studying. Tho i would be a bit wary of Game Development type programs or concentrations, it's some what of a new fad to attract students that is not necessarily well backed up in terms of real world game development content.

I would not put to much stalk in that CIPS accredited programs listing, Computer Science does not realy have an accreditation system like accounting, legal or medical programs and any one can set up an organisation that "acredites" programs for CS. If you look at the CIPS requirements for an accredited CS program you will notice they are rather light: http://www.cips.ca/system/files/CSAC_Criteria.pdf If you realy care about CIPS (which most peoleop in the field don't or have even hured of) you can still get the certification simply by applying after you graduate from any CS program (accredited or not) and receive membership: http://www.cips.ca/candidate

As for "hard work" and "constant threat of failure" that's pretty much part of being a student anywhere if you are there to learn. Just coasting through is only going to hurt you can cost money in the long run.

[ppkufwe]

Thanks for your responses guys.

[mikazo]

Hey,

I'm going into my fourth year of a Bachelor of Computer Science degree at Carleton. I was in the Game Development stream for the first two years of my program, then I switched to the Computer and Network Security stream (which I am currently in). Honestly, the only difference between the Game Development stream and the general degree in computer science is a single course per year on game development. In essence, the majority of what you are studying is for a degree in computer science in general.

Before I describe the game development stream, keep in mind that the two years I was in the stream were the first two years of its existence. The professors, although knowledgeable about computer science, did not have direct experience in modern game development. It could be that since I switched, they've found more qualified educators. However, regardless of the professors, if you're seriously interested in making video games, but not so much interested in the theory of computer science in general, you might be better off in a game development program at a college. Most likely such a program would be much more hands-on, and most or all courses you take would have some direct relation to game development.

I switched out of game development because my interests changed, but I don't regret choosing Carleton over Waterloo for computer science. I too was worried about the pressure to succeed at any particular school, which is what made me lean away from Waterloo. But, that was based solely on a short campus visit to U Waterloo and what I've heard about it.

If you're a high school student applying to Carleton, I doubt your marks will be a concern if they're in the 80s. For Ottawa in general, it's a beautiful city and there's lots to do. I don't really know how others regard a computer science degree from Carleton, but I've learned a lot in the 4 years I've been here so far, so I wouldn't say it's anything below average. I can't really compare to other schools, since I've only ever attended Carleton.

One thing I'd recommend is that no matter what school you pick, go for the co-op program. You learn a TON more on the job than you would just being in school for 4 years and working a minimum wage retail job during the summers. Also, full-time employment ain't bad to help with the tuition. Plus you graduate with job experience, and if they like you, offers to return to where you worked after graduation.

Hope this helps.

[Tony]

Overall solid insight, but...

mikazo @ Wed May 25, 2011 11:23 pm wrote:

co-op ... [vs.] ... working a minimum wage retail job during the summers.

To be fair one could apply to the very same technical "co-op" jobs, instead of retail. A non-co-op student (applying to the first job) will have the same education, experience, resume, and interview skills... the co-op program, in essence, just facilitates getting into those interviews. Which _is_ a valuable advantage at first, but it doesn't make things impossible without it.

[mikazo]

Tony @ Wed May 25, 2011 11:46 pm wrote:

Overall solid insight, but...
To be fair one could apply to the very same technical "co-op" jobs, instead of retail. A non-co-op student (applying to the first job) will have the same education, experience, resume, and interview skills... the co-op program, in essence, just facilitates getting into those interviews. Which _is_ a valuable advantage at first, but it doesn't make things impossible without it.

That is very true. Although I do wonder how employers regard co-op versus non-co-op candidates.

[Alexmula]

co-op students are cheaper

[SmokeMonster]

Tony @ Wed May 25, 2011 11:46 pm wrote:

Overall solid insight, but...

mikazo @ Wed May 25, 2011 11:23 pm wrote:

co-op ... [vs.] ... working a minimum wage retail job during the summers.

To be fair one could apply to the very same technical "co-op" jobs, instead of retail. A non-co-op student (applying to the first job) will have the same education, experience, resume, and interview skills... the co-op program, in essence, just facilitates getting into those interviews. Which _is_ a valuable advantage at first, but it doesn't make things impossible without it.

co-op employers get subsidies and tax breaks from the government making co-op students much cheaper for employers. Granted, not all companies hire students due to the financial incentive but it is a factor for many companies. I would second whoever mentioned always going for co-op over non co-op.

[ppkufwe]

mikazo @ Wed May 25, 2011 11:23 pm wrote:

Hey,

I'm going into my fourth year of a Bachelor of Computer Science degree at Carleton. I was in the Game Development stream for the first two years of my program, then I switched to the Computer and Network Security stream (which I am currently in). Honestly, the only difference between the Game Development stream and the general degree in computer science is a single course per year on game development. In essence, the majority of what you are studying is for a degree in computer science in general.

Before I describe the game development stream, keep in mind that the two years I was in the stream were the first two years of its existence. The professors, although knowledgeable about computer science, did not have direct experience in modern game development. It could be that since I switched, they've found more qualified educators. However, regardless of the professors, if you're seriously interested in making video games, but not so much interested in the theory of computer science in general, you might be better off in a game development program at a college. Most likely such a program would be much more hands-on, and most or all courses you take would have some direct relation to game development.

I switched out of game development because my interests changed, but I don't regret choosing Carleton over Waterloo for computer science. I too was worried about the pressure to succeed at any particular school, which is what made me lean away from Waterloo. But, that was based solely on a short campus visit to U Waterloo and what I've heard about it.

If you're a high school student applying to Carleton, I doubt your marks will be a concern if they're in the 80s. For Ottawa in general, it's a beautiful city and there's lots to do. I don't really know how others regard a computer science degree from Carleton, but I've learned a lot in the 4 years I've been here so far, so I wouldn't say it's anything below average. I can't really compare to other schools, since I've only ever attended Carleton.

One thing I'd recommend is that no matter what school you pick, go for the co-op program. You learn a TON more on the job than you would just being in school for 4 years and working a minimum wage retail job during the summers. Also, full-time employment ain't bad to help with the tuition. Plus you graduate with job experience, and if they like you, offers to return to where you worked after graduation.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much. This was very insightful. Although I am not fully decided between UofT and Carleton, I think now I am siding with Carleton. Damn, I only have a few hours left to make a final decision.

[mikazo]

Good luck! No matter where you end up going, university is what you make it. If you try to get as much out of the experience as you can, then you will.