Math :s

[copthesaint]

Alright, So I have never had good marks in math *In highschool, Grade school I always had 95% or higher*. Which is really quite ironic since I know so much math involved in computer programming lol. So I want to know if there is an alternate way I can learn Highschool math. I know for fact that the school system is flawed, many teachers agree with me but they just dont care really..., since math is taught for the common student who learns through lectures however I learn differently from the common person. I am great at computer programing and I do want to do this later in life, however I dont know if I will be able to get into any programs or universities if my math marks are always in the low 60s high 50s... I need to know since this will end up affecting the rest of my life, is there another way to learn highschool math?

Edit: BS math games do not work for me either :p

[TerranceN]

Then just learn from the textbook. This should be exponentially easier for someone who has learned programming by them self. Also ask friends for help. There have been many times where my friends have pointed out errors in my thinking, or explained a concept differently that made more sense to me.

Also, do you have any sort of math help sessions (like at lunch) at your school? If so, go to them until you understand what you are having trouble with. It will allow the teacher to address your problems specifically. At my school, most of the 90+ math students go to help sessions.

And finally, how is the school system broken?

[Tony]

TerranceN @ Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:51 pm wrote:

And finally, how is the school system broken?

There's an interesting talk at http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_math_with_computers.html

The main point I've gotten out of it is that 80%+ of effort is placed into doing "dumb computations". You remember those assignments -- you get one formula for whatever, and then spend an hour plugging in different numbers and computing the result by hand. The majority of learning effort goes into something that is trivially accomplished by a computer faster and more accurately.

[2goto1]

In general, if the content is difficult to learn, try to find study groups, or talk to teachers about after-school studying / programs, or go to the local libraries and find alternate textbooks that might present the content from a different angle, or spend more time independently working on lots of extra assignments until things "kick in". There is no such thing as a magic bullet to suddenly go from a 60's to an 80's student, because everyone learns differently. Perseverance, hard work, open-mindedness, and a willingness to openly listen to teachers and students without judgement can help you to get there.

Community colleges are another option to consider since they don't have the same grade requirements that universities do. Their programs tend to be more practical than university programs, which tend to be more theory based. In community college programs, you would be doing a lot of hands on programming, whereas in university computer science programs, at least for the in-class programs, lots of hands-on programming plays a much smaller role. You can have a successful programming related career either way.

There are also a lot of private schools (say a "CDI" or similar type of private college) that offer 1 or 2 year programs. In general those schools and their programs are not as recognized as a standard community college, especially from an employer's perspective...even though those private colleges will be the first to tell you that that isn't the case, since they have to "sell" their school to you in order to get more students. For someone who already has a community college diploma or a university degree, a private college program like a CDI isn't a bad idea as a continuing education kind of thing.

[RandomLetters]

Tony @ Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:14 pm wrote:

TerranceN @ Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:51 pm wrote:

And finally, how is the school system broken?

There's an interesting talk at http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_math_with_computers.html

The main point I've gotten out of it is that 80%+ of effort is placed into doing "dumb computations". You remember those assignments -- you get one formula for whatever, and then spend an hour plugging in different numbers and computing the result by hand. The majority of learning effort goes into something that is trivially accomplished by a computer faster and more accurately.

Sadly, I find many people can not even apply their equations to plug in different numbers. Being able to find equations is key in advanced math, but what use is there if they can not use it in simple applications? Plugging in numbers should be known by the time people enter high school. Sadly it is not.

What we really need is to market math, so kids dont just view math as moar hmwk but rather the basis for everything we use in our lives. Only when people are motivated can they seek to understand why these calculations work, rather than blindly performing them. 1+1 = 2 is the basis for all math, and without it you can not do anything. Offloading everything to computers will only encourage students to discard math even more by making it easier.

[knowthyself]

I also think that math needs to be better marketed to students. There's too much memorizing, too little inspiration. The underlying theory & proofs may be too complicated in some cases for early grades, so they just say, here are the formulas -- memorize them and practice crunching numbers. The problem is that if a student doesn't learn *why* and is just told to do something, they will subconsciously resist. I think that without knowing enough underlying theory, your mind won't bother to wander around and make unexpected connections, ultimately resulting in inspiration. Inspiration is the missing link. So to the poster of the original question, I suggest searching for inspiration (easier said than done of course...). Talk to your teacher(s), ask them what they love about math (very likely they do love math), and try to get them to go in depth. Look around for good math books (general reading, not text books - maybe check amazon for reviews and such) - you may get some inspiration there. Watch videos, movies, etc. Those are a few suggestions off the top of my head.

Also, I agree with another comment about college. With all the talk of universities on this forum, it's easy to be led into thinking that there isn't much value in college, but there is plenty of value. And if coding is your passion, then it may in fact be a better fit. College will be a bit more coding and a bit less math. And University *tends* to lead toward management type careers (after a few years of hands-on), whereas College *tends* to keep you more in a hands-on role. Note the *tends*, as these both depend on your aspirations.

Hope this helps.

[mono-1-rulz]

But most kids in high-school don't even care about going into depths. Like I remember when my teacher tried to explain the idea of Mathematical Induction (out of syllabus) cuz we were doing a theorem that used Induction, so many kids kept groaning and kept asking if they had to know it for the exam. It honestly ticked me off and I even remember getting into an argument with my friend. I realized then, that she just didn't care about math at all whereas I did. Most people in high-school DON'T WANT to do anything other than crunching numbers in. In your case, I would suggest get a bunch of like-minded people and learn the concepts. Its very effective as you learn and teach each other at the same time and you can probably also cover a few extra topics

[Brightguy]

Have you considered a private tutor? Failing that, I suppose you could always ask questions here.

[Alexmula]

khanacademy.org ... enjoy