Bad Science: AIDs Dissidents

[Zeroth]

I've been thinking that there are a lot of bad science issues facing us, particularly online, where anyone has a voice and an audience. I've seen a LOT of bad science everywhere, and if you want a good blog that talks about these issues in more depth, there is badscience.net.

But one of the biggest and most dangerous crank topics is that of aids. There is a growing community of people that claim that it is the anti-retroviral medicines prescribed for AIDs that makes people sick, when the real cause of AIDs is malnutrition. There are innumerable sites and dialogs out there that follow those same principles. Supposed toxicologists, anesthesiologists, etc, that claim to have studied the evidence and find there is no link between the HIV virus and AIDs. This is especially dangerous, because in places like South Africa, with 25% of the adult population being infected, such claims and ignorance can and have caused monstrous loss of life. One particular thing I've noticed in the AIDs dissidents discussions is always the question of the homosexual population of America that contracted AIDs first, and how that fits into the nutritional claims. Their response is always so homophobic as to remove any doubt about their bias. Its always something about the large drug use, and party lifestyle of the homosexual population, which if one had done the research would basically describe risk behaviours that spread STVs in general. They also ignore the substantial amount of people that do contract AIDs that A) eat properly B) don't do drugs and C) don't sleep around.

Take a look at this link: http://www.suppressedscience.net/aids.html One particular quote stands out:

Quote:

Mainstream AIDS researchers, bureaucrats and so-called educators generally act like this challenge does not exist, and when they are forced to comment on it, they usually dismiss it using ridicule, ad-hominem attacks, appeals to scientific majoritarianism and empty claims that this challenge has been answered, when in fact its scientific substance has been evaded and ignored. Ironically, the very people who are in massive denial concerning the true scientific merits of the theory they espouse accuse their opponents of being in denial. By aggressively labeling critics of the HIV paradigm "denalists", they seek to avoid scientific debate and silence dissent.

Basic tenets of science are that you make a prediction or model, and see if the experiment or reality fits the hypothesis. If it doesn't, you've still learned something. The test must be repeatable, or the model must make testable predictions. When it comes to medicine, things must be, by necessity, even stricter, requiring trials, large-scale tests and analysis.

However, the aids denialists use many different techniques to answer all reason and evidence. First, they move the goalposts. In that quote paragraph above, you can see that from this part, "empty claims that this challenge has been answered, when in fact its scientific substance has been evaded and ignored." They especially will quote long-since discredited studies from the 90's, as evidence they are right, when as early as 2000, the Durban Declaration has been publicly available, signed by over 5000 PhD or M.D. professionals, none working for commercial companies, to avoid the appearance of bias, stating that the evidence is irrefutable.

Another technique denialists use is to refer to the scientific majority repressing them, which is seen here, "appeals to scientific majoritarianism". They always try to bring up luminaries like Galileo, and others, that were punished for their beliefs, trying to liken themselves to lone underdogs fighting a conspiracy. Which isn't true, because the conclusions and Galileo and others, for which they were punished, were only disagreed with by the Church, not by their community of peers. They were not punished by their peers, but by a religious institution, which has no bearing or relationship between the tens of thousands of researchers, professors, doctors, and experts that condemn the denialists.

I know this post would likely bring out a few of the crazies on this board. If you would like to post a disagreement with the established medical protocol of anti-retroviral medicine, you better have some damn good evidence, which is recent, as free of bias as possible, and not been discredited.

Rather, I wanted to bring this issue to the awareness of compsci.ca posters, so they can be aware of the arguments and flawed logic, in case members of their families, or friends are undergoing the tragedy of HIV/AIDs and are being told these lies.

Oh, one more reference, thank you wikipedia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_denialism

[Exordium]

Hah, I see we have similar interests Zeroth. It saddens me that more people aren't familiar with the scientific method and how powerful it is. Good post - nothing much to add.

[Zeroth]

Yeah. Mostly I'm just against bad science. I see it everywhere, and it annoys me so much. I especially detest this "underdog" syndrome that journalists have when writing about scientists. They always make the lone quack sound credible by making it sound like a conspiracy. Yes, its a conspiracy... against illogical and unfounded conclusions. The science reporters don't have the knowledge nor inclination to write the right story.

[jernst]

Zeroth @ Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:09 pm wrote:

Yeah. Mostly I'm just against bad science. I especially detest journalists writing about scientists. The science reporters don't have the knowledge nor inclination to write the right story.

+1, Most journalists have no business writing about science. Couple that with people who watch "Mythbusters", read the articles and think they're instant scientists and it makes me very sad.

[Homer_simpson]

it is unfortunate for people who will take unscientific theories for truth without reason.
but personally i'm kind of suspicious towards the origins of the hiv virus.
on a related note 2 iranian doctors who created a relatively effective treatment for HIV(not aids) were imprisoned for no logical reason
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/01/iranian-hiv-pioneers-face-deat.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tU_3613sVM

[Tony]

Homer_simpson @ Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:53 pm wrote:

but personally i'm kind of suspicious towards the origins of the hiv virus.

Very interesting TED talk on topic -- http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/nathan_wolfe_hunts_for_the_next_aids.html

[Homer_simpson]

also related: hopefully you guys have heard about the swine flu outbreak. you should try and wash your hands more often. it is appearantly very contagious

[ecookman]

GAAH SWINE FLU SWINE FLU
a couple hundred people have died from it already.
for those who don't know it is the "Wrose-then-sars" mexican brew equlivent brew of sars.

---------------------------------------edit------------------------------------------------
should we really~ be going to school? it is proven schools and populated buildings are the fastest places to spread stuff like this.
uhuo ( i wonder if the board of education cares that a [i]deadly[i] flu is going around and that can KILL us.)

[rdrake]

ecookman @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:37 am wrote:

GAAH SWINE FLU SWINE FLU
a couple hundred people have died from it already.
for those who don't know it is the "Wrose-then-sars" mexican brew equlivent brew of sars.

---------------------------------------edit------------------------------------------------
should we really~ be going to school? it is proven schools and populated buildings are the fastest places to spread stuff like this.
uhuo ( i wonder if the board of education cares that a [i]deadly[i] flu is going around and that can KILL us.)

It's worse than SARS yet the only people who have died are from poor countries with pathetic health care systems? Alright.

Should you go to school? Definitely.

[ecookman]

people have died in the US

[jernst]

rdrake @ Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:01 am wrote:

Should you go to school? Definitely.

lol +1, its funny in a thread about bad science how someone writes some like this:

Quote:

for those who don't know it is the "Wrose-then-sars" mexican brew equlivent brew of sars.

[Dan]

Personaly i think swine flew is alot of media hype.

In most cases it is not deadly and will pass in a few weeks and you would not even know it was worse then the noraml flew virus. Tho the problem comes in when there are complications or the person has a weak or compermised immune system.

There are also treaments for it and i blive there is a vacince but it was not devloped for this strain in particuler.

Edit: from the artical rdrake linked to:

Quote:

In almost all cases outside Mexico, people have been only mildly ill and have made a full recovery.

[Zeroth]

Yeah, pretty funny. Here's the situation as I've seen it: swine flu has killed people in countries with abysmal health care systems. In Canada, you will almost certainly survive. At the very worst, some of the recent research into anti-retroviral medicines for HIV can be useful in treating cases of the swine flu.

What usually kills people with influenza is the dehydration and damage to the body caused by the symptoms, not the virus directly. I couldn't find much information, but of the one or two cases discussed of deaths already, they stem from dehydration. Modern health-care is more than up to the task of managing dehydration. Only in very rare circumstances does a flu actually kill directly, like the 1918 epidemic.

Which means this: practice proper food preparation, wash your hands ONLY when needed, and only go to the hospital when your symptoms are severe. Don't panic. Live your regular life, don't travel far. Basically the biggest risk factor right now is air-travel, which can spread a disease across the entire country in just a few hours. Everyone that is travelling by air, no matter the inconvenience, should not, until the virus is contained. If I were in charge, I'd shut down or severely restrict and limit air-travel to only necessary travel.

[Dan]

Zeroth @ 28th April 2009, 12:55 pm wrote:

Which means this: practice proper food preparation, wash your hands ONLY when needed, and only go to the hospital when your symptoms are severe. Don't panic. Live your regular life, don't travel far. Basically the biggest risk factor right now is air-travel, which can spread a disease across the entire country in just a few hours. Everyone that is travelling by air, no matter the inconvenience, should not, until the virus is contained. If I were in charge, I'd shut down or severely restrict and limit air-travel to only necessary travel.

My girlfriend is flying home from Toronto tomorrow >_>

[Zeroth]

Is she coming from Mexico or other infected places? If not, then it should be okay... but she might be able to get one of those face-masks... I'd definitely recommend that.