Questions about BSE at UW

joseph2625 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:19 am

Hi, I am currently a high school student and recently got an offer from UW with BSE and I have some questions about BSE at UW.

Since I started "programming" with x86 assembly (now mainly C++), I am not a great fan of higher level language such as .NET or Java.

Rather, I love low-level program language (I like to take the complete control over my codes. I hate virtual machines and CLR!!)

With that being said, will BSE program at UW be able to help me achieve my dream as low-level programmer? (preferably OS kernel, RDBMS, or a Language Compiler developer)

I would also like to know about the low-level programming courses or software security related courses offered at UW. If anyone has taken them, I'd really like to know what they are like.

Drew416 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:27 am

I could be wrong but I heard that Software Engineering department signed a deal with Microsoft so now they teach their first year courses in .NET.

SJ · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:14 am

@joseph2625: i saw a lot of such courses you mentioned in CS ATE on the SE website, but those only start in the 3B term.

Drew416 @ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:27 am wrote:

I could be wrong but I heard that Software Engineering department signed a deal with Microsoft so now they teach their first year courses in .NET.

can someone confirm this? this concept gives me the chills since SE is my first choice.

Prabhakar Ragde · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:23 am

Drew416 @ Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:27 am wrote:

I could be wrong but I heard that Software Engineering department signed a deal with Microsoft so now they teach their first year courses in .NET.

Can you please not guess at things you don't know? This is absolutely false. Electrical and Computer Engineering use C# in their courses, but not SE.

To the OP: First-year SE at UW uses C, Scheme, and C++ "without objects".

There isn't much low-level stuff in the SE core -- some assembly in the computer organization course, and some in the "baby compilers" course. OS is done in C. There are technical electives (CS courses) in compilers and database implementation.

So, yes, while SE tends to focus on higher-level systems, there is a chance to focus on the lower levels. Besides, you might learn things that help you see the merits of higher-level approaches as well.

joseph2625 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:33 pm

Then I guess most of the low-level stuff are electives.....

What about Software security related courses? (code obfuscation, anti-cracking techniques etc) I guess there's not THAT much to learn as a separate course, but it's still very significant

Prabhakar Ragde · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:18 pm

http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/current/courses/course_descriptions/cDescr/CS458.shtml

joseph2625 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:29 pm

Computer Science students only?? what the heck!

Tony · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:31 pm

Yeah, but I know of SE students who took Graphics (488) and Real-Time (452); both of which are UW's epic CS courses, with "Computer Science students only" flag.

Prabhakar Ragde · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:44 pm

SE students are considered both CS and ECE students for prerequisite purposes.

joseph2625 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:53 pm

I have one more question. what is it like to do Technical Presentation Milestone at UW? Is it difficult to find a topic? Do many people fail?

Is the format pretty much like any technical presentation? for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwrhRP2PswA

is the format of this presentation similar with TPM?

Prabhakar Ragde · **Posted:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:52 pm

I've never seen a TPM. Maybe Tony can ask some of his SE buddies.

Dark · **Posted:** Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:52 am

Hmm...I know if you love low level programming, computer engineering would be a better degree for that...as it deals with the hardware and how it interacts with the software...and the basis of that is low level code such as assembly. You will deal with high level languages with CS SE or CE at Waterloo, but I would assume CE has more low level courses.

That being said, (I'm a bit ignorant on the electives of the BSE program), try and take as many hardware-related courses that you can.

SJ · **Posted:** Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:02 pm

Btw I just remembered this, about a month or so ago I was talking to a friend who's in first year Computational Mathematics, he said they were writing a compiler at the time. so, look into Computational Mathematics too.

Prabhakar Ragde · **Posted:** Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:02 pm

This is probably someone who took CS 145 in the fall and just finished CS 241 (which I referred to as "baby compilers" above). SE students take CS 241 in their 2A term (next fall, for students in their first year now).

Tony · **Posted:** Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:09 pm

Prabhakar Ragde @ Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:52 pm wrote:

I've never seen a TPM. Maybe Tony can ask some of his SE buddies.

I've asked.

A Technical Presentation Milestone, is a short technical presentation (12~15 minutes), done after the first work-term, typically on the subject related to the workterm (I'm not sure if it's in place of the workterm report or not, but it sounds like the contents are similar). It's a pass/fail grading, and you have until graduation to get a pass. The only way to continuously fail the TPM though, is if you cannot speak English, or go over the time limit every time.

Protip: if you are out of time, just stop. Mid-sentence is fine.

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