The amount of mathematics in CS...

[Prabhakar Ragde]

[quote="[Gandalf] @ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:17 am"]
I've looked into this... From what I can tell this is only true for Waterloo's BMath in CS.[/quote]

No, it is true for the BCS as well. The BMath/CS has even more math. --PR

[[Gandalf]]

Can you point me to some resource that can reasonably lead me to believe that CS in general at Waterloo involves more math than "any other university where CS is part of the Science Faculty"? Anything anecdotal even?

Sorry ahead of time for sort of sidetracking this topic a bit.

[Leela]

Don't really want to open a new topic, as my questions are very similar to the ones posted here.
I presently finish up my correspondence high-school Calculus and Vectors course and really enjoy every bit of it... that is not related to the application of vectors. I mean I'm ok with vectors in general, but for some reason, all problems related to the application of vectors to real life situations freak me out (force and work problems, for instance). Maybe because it's more physics, than math, and I hate physics... Don't know. Hence, the question - how often do you encounter the vector theme, doing a degree in CS?
Another question - how horrible is MAT137 at UofT. I'm taking it this summer.

[Dark]

BigBear @ Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:29 pm wrote:

The highschool math courses required for Waterloo are Advanced Functions and Calculus, aswell as English and computer science, then 2 more U or M courses to make up you average.

Data is not needed but I have been told it is helpful

I'm sure Physics would also be helpful

[saltpro15]

Prabhakar Ragde @ Sun Mar 22, 2009 wrote:

saltpro15 @ Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:51 pm wrote:

is there more math in a CS university program or a Software Engineering one? I would assume SE since it's really more of an engineering course...

At UW, there is less math in the SE program, because they had to take some out and condense some (e.g. calculus) to fit in stuff for Engineering accreditation. Also the math courses that CS students take are more concept-oriented (i.e. proof) and less technique-oriented (i.e. here's how to do it, don't worry about why it works). .

phew, that just took a big worry off my mind, thanks a lot! not that I don't like math or do poorly in it, I just don't want to spend all that money to find out I'm doing more math than programming, I prefer concept-oriented math anyway, but I"m losing my train of thought and just gabbling so I will shut up now, thanks again Prabhakar

[jbking]

[quote="[Gandalf] @ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:17 pm"]Can you point me to some resource that can reasonably lead me to believe that CS in general at Waterloo involves more math than "any other university where CS is part of the Science Faculty"? Anything anecdotal even?

Sorry ahead of time for sort of sidetracking this topic a bit. [/quote]

Ok, I'll give a couple of examples here using Waterloo and Guelph though I imagine if one was curious they could go look up any other university to find this stuff out. Anyway, on to the summary here:

Waterloo:
7 Math courses consisting of 2 Calculus, 2 Algebra, 2 Statistics, and one Combinatorics

Pulled from http://ugradcalendar.uwaterloo.ca/?pageID=655

Guelph:
For the honors program there is one Math and one Statistics

Pulled from http://www.uoguelph.ca/registrar/calendars/undergraduate/current/c10/c10bcomp-info.shtml

Granted Guelph could be an anomaly here, but it is something... Toronto looked to be close to Waterloo in having about 7 Math courses for some options within the CS major I think.

[jernst]

WLU, from when i went there, 2 years ago was something like this: 2 calculus, 2 algebra, one statistics

[Tony]

Looking at just the designated MATH courses, you'd miss a lot of Math present in the program; at least that's the case for Waterloo (I can't be certain about other schools).

Just about all courses under the title of CS have some amount of Math -- from simple Induction to having a full out Logic course (a branch of Math in its own right) as a required CS245.

[[Gandalf]]

jbking @ 2009-03-23, 5:53 pm wrote:

Granted Guelph could be an anomaly here, but it is something... Toronto looked to be close to Waterloo in having about 7 Math courses for some options within the CS major I think.

Yes, let's look for a counterexample shall we...

U of T: From http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/calendar/prg_csc.htm, you require 4.0 credits of math and statistics courses for the "Foundations Area" specialist.

Waterloo: From http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/current/programs/require/2008-2009/bcs.pdf, you require 3.5 credits of math and statistics courses to graduate with a BCS in CS.

Waterloo: From http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/current/programs/require/2008-2009/bmath.pdf, you require 6.0 credits of the math to graduate, unless I'm reading it wrong.

U of T: From http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/calendar/prg_csc.htm, 7.0 math credits are necessary for the "Computer Science & Mathematics" program, which is closer to what a BMath is than the others anyway.

I think it would be fair to say that the content in the courses offered at both universities was comparable. Please be careful when you use words like "any" and "all".

[Dan]

Lakehead requires 5 FCE credits in math to graduate with a HBSc in computer sci......

[jbking]

*sigh* I don't remember there being a BCS at Waterloo when I was there. Another point is the question regular compared to Honor's, just to get a little nit-picky on some minor points here.

Thanks for the examples Gandalf, as I think my initial reply was based off of conversations had 15 years ago now so that information may be a little out of date now as I remember somebody wanting to go to Simon Fraser because it required less Math.

[Vermette]

Windsor requires 6 courses from the Math Department in the Honours CS stream: 1 Algebra, 2 Calculus, a 100 level Foundations course (Induction, Set Theory, Propositional logic etc), Stats, and Analysis. I'm excluding any material covered in CS department courses.

[Prabhakar Ragde]

Not everyone takes a Specialist stream at U of T -- that's their premium brand. As far as I can tell, the straight Major requires one calculus, one algebra, and one probability/stats. They have a CS course that is covering similar ground to our Math 135, also, and no real equivalent to our CS 245.

I also looked at McMaster (I didn't do much of this looking around, because none of these places make searching for this information very easy) and counted three or four math courses.

UBC B.A., 4 courses. UBC B.Sc has more, but they're weirdly distributed -- 3 calculus (these are largely irrelevant to CS), one algebra, one probability, and two free-choice.

Waterloo: two calculus (many CS students take Calc 3 also), two algebra, one probability, one statistics, one discrete math (which is head and shoulders above discrete math courses elsewhere), plus the option to take advanced versions of all of these. And an explicitly mathematical approach to first-year CS, as well.

[Dark]

I know at Ryerson, (where I will probably be going in the fall of 2009), you need 6 maths.

MTH 110 - Discrete Mathematics I
MTH 210 - Discrete Mathematics II
MTH 207 - Calculus & Computational Methods I
MTH 310 - Calculus & Computational Methods II
MTH 108 - Linear Algebra
MTH 304 - Probability and Statistics I

[[Gandalf]]

Prabhakar Ragde @ 2009-03-24, 9:36 am wrote:

I also looked at McMaster (I didn't do much of this looking around, because none of these places make searching for this information very easy) and counted three or four math courses.

I think all this comes down is what you're accustomed to, and a good Google search will usually do the trick.

Prabhakar Ragde @ 2009-03-24, 9:36 am wrote:

Not everyone takes a Specialist stream at U of T -- that's their premium brand. As far as I can tell, the straight Major requires one calculus, one algebra, and one probability/stats. They have a CS course that is covering similar ground to our Math 135, also, and no real equivalent to our CS 245.

Not everyone takes the BMath at Waterloo either, that's their premium brand. I doubt if you were to check the statistics you'd find a large difference in the percentages of CS students who take those programs (BMath and Specialist). So we're still at Waterloo not having more math in CS than every other university. I don't see how you can continue defending that clearly exaggerated and groundless comment.

No real equivalent to Waterloo's CS245, "Logic and Computation"? Sounds like U of T's CSC236, "Introduction to the Theory of Computation". The option to take advanced versions of certain courses you say? There's also CSC240, "Enriched Introduction to the Theory of Computation". Plus, where Waterloo has one course that another university doesn't, another university will have a course that Waterloo doesn't. Math and CS included.