A Bunch of Application Questions

[smoovee]

Hi guys, this is my first post here and I just hoped you guys could help me out with all this application confusion.

Ok first of all my averages are :
English 74
Functions 81
Physics 82

I really want to get in to Waterloo's coop program, whether it be comp sci or software engineering. My questions are:

1. Which of the two should I apply for because I've heard that you will be considered for comp sci if you apply for software engineering, is it also the other way around? I'd rather get accepted to software engineering, but I don't know if my averages are high enough right now. I was sick for a week and bombed a couple tests so I know I can raise my marks next semester, but I'm worried that I won't get accepted because my marks are low right now.

2. Also my next semester courses are calculus, religion, spare, and chemistry. I was wondering what I should do with my spare, right now I'm considering: retaking English (my teacher right now is an EXTREMELY hard marker, I had been getting consistent 80's in English before without trying that hard, and this year I'm working my ass off and getting nothing), keep the spare, or take a computer course because they say on the information booklet those courses are highly recommended for software engineering.

3. For my backup I wanted to apply to UofT and if you guys could recommend any of the computer science courses which one do you think I should apply for? Also is UofT good for comp sci at all because you only get a Bachelor of Science. (I have no idea what I'm talking about but Waterloo's degrees seems to be different so I was just wondering)

4. Also any insight on the whole acceptance process would be appreciated because some of my friends have already be accepted which means they are looking at our marks right now, and mine aren't that good...

Thanks (A LOT),

Smoovee

[Tony]

1. Apply to both. Extra applications are fairly cheap, considering how much it will cost you to go through a degree.

2. A CS course is not required to be accepted into either program. It's recommended that you be familiar with some of the basics, but that could be achieved outside of a classroom.

3. Bachelor of Science for Computer Science? Hmm... UofT is a good choice. The experience is different from Waterloo (each university is unique), but the academic quality is about on par. You should apply to UofT as well, but if you want a backup school, I would suggest you pick something else as well.

4. The application decisions come in waves. The early acceptances go out as early as (apparently) now. All of the decisions are made by May (or around that time).

[smoovee]

Tony @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:24 pm wrote:

2. A CS course is not required to be accepted into either program. It's recommended that you be familiar with some of the basics, but that could be achieved outside of a classroom.

3. Bachelor of Science for Computer Science? Hmm... UofT is a good choice. The experience is different from Waterloo (each university is unique), but the academic quality is about on par. You should apply to UofT as well, but if you want a backup school, I would suggest you pick something else as well..

So when they say it is "highly recommended" they don't take that into consideration when looking to accept or decline you? They just want you to have it to make it easier for you? And if I shouldn't take a computer course what do you think will help me the most? Do they look down on repeated courses, because I was considering retaking English to raise my mark.

About #3 yeah I realized the whole science thing but I was just curious because Waterloo gives out a degree of computer science AND mathematics (Remember I'm still a stupid high school kid ). Also what's the difference between the two UofT campuses, I mean other than they are in different locations. And what schools would you recommend for a backup?

Thanks sooo much for the quick reply Tony =) I've been so stressed out about school these past few weeks (minus Christmas lol)

[Tony]

The thing about high school CS is that it's soo non-standardized, that Universities can't really require the course. Some schools don't even have CS, while others teach it in such a way that one is better off without taking it at all. Most Universities start out with the basics. Waterloo evens out the learning curve by starting with Scheme. What kind of CS background do you have so far?

They do ask about repeated courses, but then again English is one of those "special consideration" classes. 74 is not horrible, but if you think you can get that into solid 80s, it might be a worthy pursuit.

Re: #3 -- the name of the degree is largely a technicality of what faculty is responsible for the program. As long as it's not completely out of line (Bachelor of Arts?), I would treat them as equivalent.

If you'll end up applying to UofT for CS, go to the downtown location -- that's where the cool new CS building is at.

As for the backup University (or any on your application, really) -- that is largely a personal choice. What are you looking for, out of a university? City, location, size, community?

[smoovee]

Tony @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm wrote:

The thing about high school CS is that it's soo non-standardized, that Universities can't really require the course. Some schools don't even have CS, while others teach it in such a way that one is better off without taking it at all. Most Universities start out with the basics. Waterloo evens out the learning curve by starting with Scheme. What kind of CS background do you have so far?

Haha....ummm, none? My dad is a software engineer and I think that he wants to teach me some programming during the summer. The real reason why I might want a CS course in high school isn't really to prepare me for university, but to help me get into university. Do you think it would help?

Tony @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm wrote:

They do ask about repeated courses, but then again English is one of those "special consideration" classes. 74 is not horrible, but if you think you can get that into solid 80s, it might be a worthy pursuit.

Yeah I'll think about this one. Say if I were to get an 83% in English, should I take that or a CS course (In your opinion)? (Or just keep spare of course)

Tony @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm wrote:

If you'll end up applying to UofT for CS, go to the downtown location -- that's where the cool new CS building is at.

So you wouldn't recommend taking coop at UofT? Also the marks required for acceptance there are lower than the Scarborough campus, any ideas why?

Tony @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm wrote:

As for the backup University (or any on your application, really) -- that is largely a personal choice. What are you looking for, out of a university? City, location, size, community?

The one that I can most easily get a job from when I leave. I mean if I have to go to my backup I might as well try to go to one with a decent rep.

Thanks so much again! I know I have a lot of questions and stuff but I'm really stressed out about this whole university thing. I really appreciate you taking your time to help me out man =)

Smoovee

[Tony]

Your situation re: CS credit is fairly complicated. If you skip gr10, gr11, and jump straight into gr12 CS, that might potentially backfire, although that largely depends on the teacher and the strength of the CS program in your high school. If so, that CS credit will not even make it into the top-6 application average.

On the other hand, it might be a good idea to have more than only 6 gr12 courses, in case your CS grade is better than in another non-required class.

It's becoming a narrow game of numbers, really. I don't know your school, your ability in any of the classes you might be taking, the exact way the applications are judged, or the mood of the person doing the "individual selection" review of your application. You are in a better position to make this decision for yourself. Although, in my opinion, unless taking spare will improve your grades, it might be a good idea to take some class.


I am not sure of such details re: UofT. Although I know that there might be a "professional year", and that could be called differently from co-op, although it's a similar idea (except that it's a single 12~16 month slot).



I'm not sure how far into an interview process you could go on University's rep alone. I'd be looking at some specialty courses that might substitute for the lack of prior experience in a field you are interested in. Game dev (Carleton), web dev courses/languages (Ryerson), bear hunting (Lakehead)....

If you are job-oriented, I would suggest looking into options and strengths of co-op programs (I'm not familiar with all myself). Though I've got to warn you that if you have no prior experience and are going in just for the money -- it might turn out to be a very different ride, from what those who do it for fun make it out to be.

[smoovee]

The thing about my top 6 courses for software engineering is that there are five required courses which means those will be considered in my top 6 for sure, and religion is mandatory in my school and I know I will get high in that class. This means that I basically already have my 6 best averages already set. So would a CS course help at all? I mean obviously it won't help my average, but I mean will they look at me in a better light because I have some CS experience?

Also would it be held against me if I retake English and get a worse mark, or something like 80 instead of say, if I end with a 78? Because spare might be better in that case.

Quote:

I'm not sure how far into an interview process you could go on University's rep alone. I'd be looking at some specialty courses that might substitute for the lack of prior experience in a field you are interested in. Game dev (Carleton), web dev courses/languages (Ryerson), bear hunting (Lakehead)....

I'll look into those other universities, but how hard would it be to get into Waterloo or UofT if a took another year?

What is so bad about me not having prior experience in the field I am interested in? I thought you said sometimes high school CS is detrimental? (no sarcasm just asking)

Also I just don't really know what I want to do, it's not that I'm going into CS for the money, just that I don't really know what else to do and it seems interesting even though I haven't tried it yet.

Thanks again

Smoovee

(other people can post also lol)

[Tony]

I honestly don't know how much influence taking a class that doesn't count towards the application average would have. I also don't know what happens when you retake a class and end up with a lower mark -- it might depends on what your high school sends on the transcript and/or how university views it.

Your marks are borderline, but passable into Waterloo/UofT. I think both are "individual selection from low 80s". Though I'm not sure if you should take a whole extra year for an additional chance to make it into either of those specific schools, especially considering that you are not even sure of how interested you might be in the program.

What I was referring to previously is that without any previous background your idea of what Computer Science might be, and what it actually is, could be horribly out of sync. You might like it, or you might find it to be not what you've expected. I'm not trying to discourage you from this particular program, but there's some chance that you might be more interested in something else, and not even realize it yet.

(it seems that other members are intimidated by a thread full of long posts )