Is Computer Science or Engineering for me?

[changturkey]

Hi, all, first post. I am having trouble deciding what exactly I want to do in University, and would like some opinions. First, about my academics. I did quite well in my sciences, but not as well in math, and have yet to do english, as I am coming back for a "victory lap". Science marks were roughly 85-90, my functions mark is a 70, but could have been so much better, I understood all the material, I just don't understand why my mark was so low as I was getting good marks on assignments/tests. Anyways, I have to apply to university in the winter (?) so I just started thinking about what I wanted to do. What is Computer Science like? What is Computer Engineering like, or engineering in general? Really math heavy probably? I enjoyed physics a lot, especially kinematics. I don't really have any programming experience, except for some course back in Grade 10 that taught Basic and VBasic, but may take the Grade 11 programming course in the fall. Another question I have is, if someone that lands a job with a CS degree, would they just sit all day programming in a cubicle or something

[Tony]

Both Computer Science and Engineering is Math-heavy. They are somewhat on different (CS is slightly towards proofs and abstraction) while Engineering (though depends on what kind of Engineering) is slightly towards calculations and solving groups of equations). Though there's quite a bit of an overlap as well.

I could point you to the general overview of degrees and specifically computer engineering.

changturkey @ Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:29 pm wrote:

if someone that lands a job with a CS degree, would they just sit all day programming in a cubicle or something

That really depends on where you work. Just because you've got a CS degree doesn't mean you need to work in a cubicle environment and/or programming.

For example, if you work at Google, you get to sit all day programming in a boat.

[Zeroth]

I'll take a first stab at this, and I believe I'm quite qualified.

A bit of background: I am a Computer Science Major, and currently receiving a government grant to perform Computer Science research, under the supervision of my professor.(Translation, I take the professor's ideas, and make working code)

Computer Science, is the Science of Solving Problems(tm). Computer Science looks at problems, and addresses issues like: Is it solvable? Can it be computed? Can it be generalized? Can it be used to simulate another problem? What kind of behaviour does this Problem have?

Taking a look at those issues, in addition to describing your results and solutions in a language and platform agnostic way is primarily what Computer Science is all about. Its not a specific problem, or set of problems; Its all Problems, in general.

This is what Algorithms and Data Structures are for, solving these problems in a consistent, mathematically measurable and proven way. Here is an example: The Towers of Hanoi problem.

In Computer Science, one looks at the behaviour of this problem, and the required algorithms, and there are some very important implications involved. The time it takes to solve the Towers grows exponentially with the number of towers or disks. If both the number of towers AND disks grows, then it grows exponentially squared faster. With 64 Golden disks... it takes the entire lifetime of the universe to solve the problem, with one disk being moved each second.

There are further implications to this problem, and others like it. Put simply, Computer Science looks at how to solve problems, and creates new tools and methods to do so.

Computer Engineering however, is all about practical use. Algorithmic concerns, logical implications are significantly less important in this discipline, and are taught merely to be able to get a handle on real-world performance. Basically to prevent the engineer from trying to use an algorithm that will take a few billion years to resolve. Basically, Science vs Engineering is the theoretical(academic) vs the practical sides of the same issues: solving problems. The other day, I had an immensely interesting discussion on how to bring more of the "Ivory Tower" research to practical applications, like games, and OS's. I pointed out that most computer engineers face issues that computer scientists have reliably solved for over ten years.

In terms of career: you will get what you put in. A Bachelors in Computer Science will give you the breadth and understanding to pursue a wide variety of careers, wheras the engineer is pretty much focused on what engineers always do: making and designing new stuff. Typically, an engineer will design and help program a large scale system, like an airport management software panel. If you are ambitious, and learn well, the Bachelors in either will serve you very very well.

In terms of math, the Science has much more, especially in terms of logic and reasoning level math. The Engineer has a lot more paperwork, however, in that they design the systems, have to come up with diagrams, pitches and presentations.

And your last question: It depends on the company. But a CS degree gives you an understanding few self-taught programmers have, so typically you will get paid more, and have better career paths to follow. But usually, you will be programming in a cubicle all day. Its what your programming that matters.

[changturkey]

Great points by both, and thank you for the responses. I am just so confused as to what I want to do, and I've had a love for computers since I dunno, Grade 2? Which field would you consider "harder" and what are the job prospects like for both? Will my intake of Senior level math affect how well I do in Post-Secondary? I am just having a feeling that if I can't do the math now (which I can, but not getting the mark I feel I should), will I be able to do the math in university?

[Tony]

"harder" (or "easier") largely depends on your aptitude towards the subject. It'd hard to say, without knowing a lot about you.

Job prospects have a lot of overlap to them. With an exception that as a certified Computer Engineer, in Canada, you'd be technically allowed to design a bridge. You can't do that with a CS degree.

The Math will definitely be much more difficult. If you find it challenging, then it will obviously require much more effort on your part, and that depends on your discipline for the subject.

[changturkey]

Tony @ Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:04 pm wrote:

"harder" (or "easier") largely depends on your aptitude towards the subject. It'd hard to say, without knowing a lot about you.

Job prospects have a lot of overlap to them. With an exception that as a certified Computer Engineer, in Canada, you'd be technically allowed to design a bridge. You can't do that with a CS degree.

The Math will definitely be much more difficult. If you find it challenging, then it will obviously require much more effort on your part, and that depends on your discipline for the subject.

I read your blog, and the posts are great. It really gives some good background info for those not really sure. I know I can do the math, I've been proficient all my life, its just that in the last 3 years I've been stuck with the same teacher who doesn't exactly encourage a positive atmosphere (or teach well either); the class average ended being like 76-78? I have yet to take calculus, but I am really wanting to get good marks. The problem I had with math was focusing enough in class (the teacher was a bore and often contradicted herself, she also erratically posted the steps from an question to an answer), and sort of "getting math"; for me math seems to either not be there, or there, and when I get "it" everything just seems to come in to place.

EDIT: What do you guys think of McMaster, University of Ottawa, and York?

[Reality Check]

Not sure which is for you but just make sure you know that both are Math-based and require a pretty strong understanding of it. If you got 70 then I suggest you make sure you do in fact know everything because there are many who drop out of CS and CE because they didn't realize exactly what the two subjects entail. But listen more to Tony and Zeroth since they're more qualified than I.

[epoch fail]

One of the things that has always interested me is automation - and developing "thinking" systems.
For example, video recognition. Allowing computers to understand/perceive what is being seen.
What is this closer to? Computer science? Or a steam of engineering (be it computer/electrical)?

I have taken a year of computer science, and a year of engineering. I'm not sure which to continue with.
Both really interest me.

If it was cpsc, which concentration would that be?
- Computer Graphics
- Scientific Computation
- Algorithms and Complexity Theory
- Programming Languages and Compilers

[Dan]

Thinking systems such as video recognition would be computer science unless you are doing it at a hardware level.

[changturkey]

I did some further reading, and I think I would prefer creating software with available methods and tools, rather than designing new methods to create the software. So it seems like I have a preference for software engineering over computer science. However, since there are variations in each school's way of teaching computer science, which schools take a more applied approach (more engineering than science)?

[changturkey]

Bump.

[darkhelmetlive]

Tony @ Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:04 pm wrote:

With an exception that as a certified Computer Engineer, in Canada, you'd be technically allowed to design a bridge. You can't do that with a CS degree.

Point 2 from the APEGGA (Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists, and Geophysicists of Alberta) EGGP Act Code of Ethics. (http://www.apegga.org/About/ACT/code.htm)

Quote:

Professional engineers, geologists and geophysicists shall undertake only work that they are competent to perform by virtue of their training and experience.

This is the Alberta version, but each province has very similar wording regarding this kind of thing, so the laws across the country can be considered the same for most intensive purposes.

Computer and Software engineers are NOT allowed to design a bridge. They are not educated enough in that area to competently perform the work, hence it would be illegal for them to undertake the work.

[Dark]

One question you could ask yourself is, what did you have an interest in when you were younger?

Answering this could help you discover what you are/were truly good at, and give you an idea of what field to go into.

For example, I knew I was destined for the computer science/engineering field when I got a PC when I was 7 or 8 years old.

I bought games and wanted to "change" the game to suit my preferences. From much googling, this lead into finding out how to decompile programs and edit them, which in turn lead into C++ programming.

Childhood interests such as games lead me into computer science topics, and that's one of the ways I found out I had an aptitude for the field.

I was also a star at math in primary school, and often took remote controlled cars apart as a kid to see how they work (engineering "trait").

So, try to think of what interests you recreationally, and try to find a technical milestone that you personally meet/enjoy trying to meet, and you might find out what career you are particularly suited for.

Why computer science? If you like physics, maybe go into mathematical physics and see which options interest you in University...hope this helps :S