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[Clayton]

I have recently noticed that the quality of grammar and spelling has dropped considerably in posts. Every day it seems that more and more people speak poorer and poorer English (sorry if some of you don't speak English as a first language, ignore this post if English is not your first language).

The shortening of words that would otherwise take you an extra second to write is considerably irksome for me. The letter "u" is not a stand-in for the word "you". Nor is "ur" a stand-in for "your". The following list is compiled from proper english words, and their "shortened" "words":

1. "u" -> "you"
   
2. "cuz" -> "because" or "cousing"
   
3. "ur" -> "your" or "you're"
   
4. "bro" -> "dude" or similar (particularily annoying)
   
5. "r" -> "are" or "our"
   
6. "lol" or similar -> some form of laughing (really, just say haha or something, don't do the roflmao omg thing)
   
7. "plz" -> "please"
   
8. "thx" -> "thanks"
   
9. "teh" -> "the" (I realize that this can be a spelling error, but when it happens more than 5 times in a post, slow down)
   
10. "kno" -> "know"
    

Look at that, ten ways to be lazy just off the top of my head! Perhaps a one time use of one of the above is tolerable, but when the use of one of those symbolisms of laziness is used to the point of habit, something is wrong, and needs to be thought about.

Honestly, is it that hard to type "yo" before that "u", or spell "please" properly? Think about it this way, if someone in your english class passed you a piece of writing to hand in for marks, and you saw the above "words" on their assignment, what would you do? That is the exact way I feel, and some others on this forum feel when they see posts as such.

Lastly, I'll leave you with a message from md:

md wrote:

Seriously, you must have failed english to think that writing like that is acceptable. Not only am I fairly certain he isn't your "Bro", but "you" isn't and has never been spelled "u" and your grammar is atrocious. I suggest reading some books, maybe going to english class next semester.

And one more for the road:

md wrote:

[For those of you] ... who seemingly can't write proper english, "u" is not a word, nor is "kno"; the words are "you" and "know". Seriously, the added effort to type correctly is infinitesimally small so please write like someone who didn't fail grade 1 english.

Please just think about this the next time you fill up your post with "u"'s and "ur"'s.

</rant>

[cool dude]

hahaha nice topic Freakman. Just want to point out that usually if people just learned english they would never use these shortened words. It is the people who know english well and know how to spell you and other words properly are the ones that choose the shortened forms. A lot of it has to do with laziness although some of it has to do with developed habit. people that use msn frequently develop a habit of spelling you as u and other shortened words. I myself are one of those people and once on my essay spelled you as u although i caught the mistake when proof reading. It really doesn't bother me and it shouldn't bother you. if those people choose to be illeterate (ha not sure on the spelling) then it is only worse for them.

[Clayton]

The funny thing is though, this is NOT MSN. The way you talk on MSN is the way you talk on MSN, the way you talk on forums though, should be completely different. Take into effect that some people can't read as well as others and perhaps you should try and make your post make sense at the very least.

[wtd]

I cannot support discrimination against people on the basis of something as superficial as the skill with which they communicate their thoughts.

[md]

I think that's a 12 on the sarcasmometer wtd

Not only is this NOT MSN but most people don't type like that on MSN either. If you were to write like that at work or school then you'd be lucky to keep your job or pass. Why should the internet be any different? Writing coherent sentences is a key requirement to expressing yourself, and if you cannot do that then what the point? People come here for help and to share what they have learned. If you are unwilling to take the time to ask your question in such a way that other people can understand it, or answer in a way that other know what you are saying, then why bother? If all your going to do is contribute random noise then please, contribute it elsewhere; if you are here to help, then write coherently. It's really quite simple.

[rdrake]

cool dude wrote:

A lot of it has to do with laziness although some of it has to do with developed habit. people that use msn frequently develop a habit of spelling you as u and other shortened words.

I'd have to say that IRC would be worse than MSNM, for this.

The whole point of using proper grammar and spelling is to convay information successfully to the majority of readers, this is the whole point of making a post. One who chooses to improperly misspell words degrades the value of their posts greatly. Is spelling things wrong bad? No, nobody is perfect, but substituting "words" in for words purposely is definitely a problem.

Lastly, wtd, .

[xHoly-Divinity]

I'll I have to say is.... welcome to the 21st century. Every other forum/blog community on the internet uses internet slang. I invite you to check out another forum site if you haven't already done so. Enlighten yourselves... I don't understand why it's such a big deal if someone uses shortened slang words anyway. As for communication, if anyone does not understand the meaning of 'plz' or 'u' then they are either: a) not very bright individuals; or b) have never used MSN messenger or checked out another forum

Obviously no one is going to write like that on a term paper or a job application. It's like comparing how you talk with your friends with how you would talk to your boss. No one is that stupid.... I hope

[CodeMonkey2000]

ill try not to use internet slang, but its just hard when you have been doing it soo often, and see everyone else do it. do you think we might slowly loosing the english language?, because(hehe, i was about to write cuz) people are starting to use "pwn","lol","roflemao" in thier daily lives.

[rdrake]

xHoly-Divinity wrote:

I'll I have to say is.... welcome to the 21st century.

Thank you, everything is so shiny here.

xHoly-Divinity wrote:

Every other forum/blog community on the internet uses internet slang. I invite you to check out another forum site if you haven't already done so.

Everybody uses internet slang. Was "blog" a household name 10 years ago? No! It's commonplace to hear that word used now (with the exception of my house in 10 years, when such words would be banned).

xHoly-Divinity wrote:

Enlighten yourselves... I don't understand why it's such a big deal if someone uses shortened slang words anyway.

The point of asking for help on a forum is to typically get help, an opinion, or something similar. By using proper grammar, English, etc., you are making it easier for the vast majority of people to understand your post, and reply accordingly. Ever go to Turing help? Typically those questions which are asked most clearly get the best response.

xHoly-Divinity wrote:

As for communication, if anyone does not understand the meaning of 'plz' or 'u' then they are either: a) not very bright individuals; or b) have never used MSN messenger or checked out another forum

The point is not whether or not somebody understands it, it's the fact that reading messages with such substitions made makes it hard to understand the post. If somebody's post is that difficult to read, I will skip it. If somebody's post contains no spacing or paragraphs, I will skip it. Does this lead to more replies? Absolutely not.

xHoly-Divinity wrote:

Obviously no one is going to write like that on a term paper or a job application. It's like comparing how you talk with your friends with how you would talk to your boss. No one is that stupid.... I hope

Again missing the point. In Off Topic, nobody cares about how one writes. In fact, anybody who wishes to keep their sanity avoids that forum. However when asking a question, it is most important to make your post clear, concise, and properly written. Also a proper reply, in order to be understood fully, will also contain the qualities above.

[Mazer]

It begins

[Clayton]

err, what begins?

[Mazer]

Who cares what, something I believe in has caught on! Hoorai~!

[Craige]

I agree with everything here, except 1 word: Bro. While I do agree this word should be spelled bro' or brother, I do not agree it should be excluded from anybodies daily speech, even when used to refer to somebody who is not your brother. I have a few people I call brothers who are not related to me in any way, and are not even in the same country. I still call them brothers though, because we have formed such a close bond with each other. It's considering them as close as family. My family has the same thing with one of my sisters friends. He may not be related to us, but he his my sisters bother, and thus my brother, and my mothers son.

However, as I stated, I do agree with what you are saying. Laziness is not a reason for using such language. English is one of the greatest languages on the planet, and half of those who claim to speak the language use words like "pwnd" or "plz". I mean, seriously, what do you get out of that? It only makes your posts/I.M.'s harder to read. I do not accept laziness as an excuse either. If you actually typed full words once and a while, it would not seem like such a chore to type "please" or "your".

So please people, learn to use the English language.

[Dan]

wtd wrote:

I cannot support discrimination against people on the basis of something as superficial as the skill with which they communicate their thoughts.

Even if you ment this in sarcasm (witch i hope you did not), it is a very valid point. The thoughts that are being communicated are what is impotent not how they are communicated. How some one says something dose not effect the vaildit of it or the intelligence of it.

Honestly to me, most of the above sounds like people being Gamer Nazis. The english language is not a static thing that never changes and is written in stone. Usages such as u for you, r for are, ect are acuatialy part of the english language whether you like it or not. Langue is not a bunch of deftions written in a book, it is what is generally uses and know in that area. Since you clearly know the meaning of all thess short forms, it shows that it is becoming part of the language. The best way you can fight this is simply not to use them, however sticking your head in the sand is not going to make them go away. My point is "u" IS a stand in for "you", and "ur" IS a stand-in for "your".

Now as for "teh", this is not a short form, this is a type-o and if you are now going to complain about people having type-os, you realy need to get a life. (however i know this can also be used in some 1337 speak versions) It happens, get over it. This can also be the case with "kno".

And come on you have a problem with "lol" and "rofl"? Maybe you would like it if we wrote all posts in formal english in 3rd person past tenses and do not refure to the self at all?

In all honestly the one being lazy is you if you can not stand a few "u"s to get to the true meaning of a post. Sure some posts that use bad gamer and shorten forms are useless and just over all bad, but then again some are extermaly valuable and contrubit deeply to the community. Impelying that bad gramer, spelling and short forms means some one is dumb or there point is, is like saying that because you are of one race, skin color, sex or religion your points on anything are less valuable. Realy this is turning in to the new way to distrimante agsited peoleop online.

You say learn english, i say learn to appeted to new times or just don't read my posts, it is your lose.

[CodeMonkey2000]

imo (is imo ok?) english is not the greatest language. no offence to anyone, it's just that english has too many faults, the writing isn't fully phonetic (like Marahti, my original language, this is also the reason why it is hard for new immagrants to learn, because those who speak phonetic languages, its hard to understand that k can make a koo and ka sound even though it is still only just one character), it's not quite as pricise as most other languages. it has the problem with homophes which nonexistent with other languages. and overall i find the english grammer comfusing (but that's only becuase english isn't my first language)

that bieng said it is important to communicate your ideas in a way that the reader does not need to decrypt what you are saying, which is the whole point of this thread.