Open Turing (How to make turing)

[Tony]

[mod:08e9549060]
This topic was split from "help new to programming" and was spawned from andys coments that we should make our own turing that is free.
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you know the deal Andy, we need a lead for the compiler development. A lot of people are interested and willing to participate and contribute, but we lack expertise and leadership for this crucial part of the project.

[Andy]

hmm, how many people here took a compiler course? Martin said he droped out of it didn he?

[wtd]

You know, you wouldn't need for it to compile down to native machine code. You could just have it translate into another language. Might be easier.

[Tony]

wtd wrote:

You could just have it translate into another language. Might be easier.

I've already brought this up, and this is exactly how Turing works currentlly. The syntax is translated into C++ via Lexer, and is then compiled as such. Quite possibly using VC++'s compiler (at least executables have a lot of references to it)

I'm actually in favour of this approach (if anything, just because I can do a whole lot more myself). Though I'd like to hear from Andy as to the advantages we'd get out of running our own compiler instead.

[Dan]

I am curently taking a corses that deals with some complier realted materal. I deftaly think it dose not make scences to make it complie to mashen code if you ever whont to see the project done. Also if you whont to make it plantform indpenedt then VC++ is not going to be going in the right direction.

[Andy]

although i'm a die hard asm fan, compiling to c would be much easier. I'm actually writing an interpretor for work right now, so it wouldnt be much work. I guess commitment is greatest issue here =P

[Dan]

I am not shure if you guys have fully thought out the domain for this project. If you think about it most of the users of turing do not even know what a complier is. Most do not even know that turing can make exes. If you do pull off a complier that turns turing to c code (witch is going to bring up more issues as to how you are going to do the windows and graphics things platform idpentlyl) very few users who do not have turing will be able to figgure out how to use an comand line complier with out alot of help from others with more knowalge about such things.

If you whont to make somthing that whould be most helpfull to the magority of turing users i whould make an IDE with an interperiter builit in. Personaly i whould try to replicate the turing IDE in a java applet so they whould not even have to download anything to get going. Also as an applet with out the ablity to aucatly complie to an exe and fixed to our site you could aucatly make moeny off this by placing some small ads right below it well stiill providing a free turing resorce online.

This may not sound sain form a progaming stand point but if you think of who your client is and what they are using it for it dose. Very few users of turing are aucatly trying to make exes but the magoirty are just trying to run there program at home.

Also from a leagal stand point an applet turing IDE is quite diffrent form baisclky remaking turing. Since turing was aucatly made very much like you descirbe there could be legeal ramfiactions of basiclky reversengering turing and making the same thing with out the IDE.

Just some non-progaming realted thoughts.....

[batman]

i recomend using turing first it is very simple, then one you have obtained a lot of turing knowledge then move on to java which can create more colpex programs. C++ is also a good and it is free as well. I have one question though where do u get ruby????????????????? Anyways, turing is free and u can get it on the internet u just need to know where to look.(cough)

[Dan]

batman wrote:

i recomend using turing first it is very simple, then one you have obtained a lot of turing knowledge then move on to java which can create more colpex programs. C++ is also a good and it is free as well. I have one question though where do u get ruby????????????????? Anyways, turing is free and u can get it on the internet u just need to know where to look.(cough)

Turing is no more free then windows or photoshop. If you post a copy of turing online you could get sewed by holthsoft and it is tehcaly break some rules to download and use it with out a lincen. Also the last few poster where talking about making a free verson of turring not about using other langues then turing.

[batman]

I know turing is not free, but you can downloaded if you know where to find it thats all im saying. Its not like im going to tell people where to get it. Its kinda of obvious where you can get it.

[mod:07a755248d="hacker dan"]
Then why did you bother saying that? Please do not spam topics when it is "obvious where you can get it.".
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[mod:07a755248d="Tony"]
You are clearly derailing this topic.
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[Tony]

It doesn't matter if the students can't tell a compiler appart from blue (well it does, but that's besides this point). They are looking at running their Turing assignments at home, and if it's by another name, but works.. it shouldn't matter.

We are not compeating with Holt here (the compiler and IDE will be freely available under GNU/GPL). It's just that it's going to have a nifty feature of complete backwards compatibility to Turing's syntax I'd like to think of this as OpenOffice being able to save in Word.doc format.

As long as we don't use Lexer/VC++ combination, the project will be quite different. In fact I hope of extending the language in it's short-comings. Definitely OpenGL based graphics package!

code:

View.Set("3D") Draw.Line3D(x1,y1,z1,x2,y2,z2,blue)

Clean room development, no openning up on Turing's IDE with hex readers

[wtd]

batman wrote:

i recomend using turing first it is very simple

I'm not sure why I even bother saying this anymore...

Turing is not the only "simple" programming language. It's not even really all that simple.

[Dan]

Tony wrote:

It doesn't matter if the students can't tell a compiler appart from blue (well it does, but that's besides this point). They are looking at running their Turing assignments at home, and if it's by another name, but works.. it shouldn't matter.

It dose matter if they do not know how to use it :p. Unless you mean make an IDE for it too. We realy should get a new forum or topic for this going.

Legeal wise if they did try to sue it whould be a fun cort case....

[Andy]

can they license the language? i mean, how would they do it? by keywords? by syntax? i'm really curious...

[Dan]

It whould be an intresting thing to look in to. I honstly am not shure if you can copy right the sytantx of a langue or even the word "turing". It is somthing that should be looked in to, to some degrea tho. Tho it whould be a hard case for holth soft to make since they whould have no loss of profit since virutal all there sales are from selling to the school borad. I swaer you could get ritch slaping together crapy software in VB and selling it to the goverment and public orginations as long as you lobby for it.

Any how this topic is kind of geting out of control from what it started as so i am going to slipt it. Hopfully every one will figgure it out.