Program after Turing.

[Reality Check]

Turing was the first and is the only program I am competent in. I'm in grade 10. I want to start learning something else in the summer. I taught myself most of Turing using the walkthroughs in this forum. I wanted to go on to Java and learn that in the summer (because thats what we will learn in grade 11 programming next year) and then the summer after this I wanted to go straight to C++. I have no problem with teaching myself using books and am quite capable of doing so. Is that too big of a leap though or should I do some other programs before I do so?

[wtd]

Ask yourself how well you really know Turing. Read Cervantes' tutorials.

[Cervantes]

Also ask yourself, why do you want to learn Java and C++? What is it about them that makes you want to learn them?

[Reality Check]

Well, I want to learn a program that gives me the highest potential to get a high level job. I mean, Turing is going to be getting me a job at a gaming company for example. I know most of Turing I'd say and have read ALMOST all the tutorials. I think I'd like to make the jump to another program this summer, preferably Java because were learning that in school next year. I want to be ahead of the class just as I was ahead of most of them in Turing. I'm not the kind of person that gets frustrated easily so if Java is a hard thing to learn, I can withstand the frustration and failing until I get it. But you guys are the 'experts', should I got o something easier first?

[wtd]

First off... a bit of terminology clarification. Your confusion is understandable coming from Turing, but it needs to be corrected before you can move on.

You are setting out to learn a programming language... not a specific program. Turing, being proprietary has a single implementation, which is tied down to a single program.

This is a condition you will not find elsewhere.

Secondly, you want to become good at Java and C++ so you have a better chance of getting a good steady job. That's fine, and if you can become good, you have a decent chance. There are a lot of really bad Java and C++ programmers out there.

However, the path to these goals is not nearly straightforward, since there are a lot of either mediocre or bad Java and C++ programmers out there. They will influence you if you try to go at these languages head on, and they cannot teach you stuff they themselves don't know.

I consider myself fairly expert in both Java and C++. I approached them only after I had a grounding in other programming languages. Python and Ruby taught me to appreciate objects* and that made it possible for me to grok Java and its library. Functional languages gave me an appreciation of anonymous inner classes and function objects. Generics in O'Caml and Haskell, as well as Eiffel gave me an appreciation of templates in C++.

Because I had experience with these languages (and more) I was able to explore more fully the worlds of Java and C++, and gain a deeper understanding of them.

Note: I don't mean to pick on Java and C++ programmers exclusively, but they are simply the languages you mentioned.

* Io makes me continue enjoying objects.

[[Gandalf]]

Why don't you try out Java and see if you really want to continue learning it after a while. Forget buying a book, you can get a just fine introduction from wtd's Introduction to Java. I find it's usually a good strategy to try something out if you're not sure. This also applies to Ruby, Python, Io, or any other language which catches your interest for even a few minutes.

[Reality Check]

Thanks wtd, I guess your right and coming from you I'll listen. I won't go on to C++ and Java just yet. So what do I learn in the summer?

[[Gandalf]]

I'd say it's a safe bet that wtd would suggest some of these as alternatives to learning Java or C++:
Ruby
Python
Io
O'Caml

[Reality Check]

Which of those is the best stepping stone to Java and C++?

[Andy]

you seem to want to learn java/c++ alot.. like wtd and gandalf said, learn how to program well first, then picking up the two languages should be a piece of cake. you said you know turing, but how much of turing do you really know? pointers? object oriented? inheritance? polymorphism? implimentations? knowing turing is alot more than being able to program a simple game/application in it.

[rdrake]

Reality Check wrote:

Which of those is the best stepping stone to Java and C++?

Really any of them will help you better understand basic programming practices. Many programming languages work in the same way, the syntax is just different. Using pretty much any of the listed languages should help you get a grip on basic programming skills. This is very important.

I personally choose Ruby. It makes programming a joy for smaller projects, and (I personally find) it lets you concentrate on the problem you're trying to solve moreso than with other languages. Reason being Ruby cleans up after you, among other things. Solving problems is a vital life skill, and very important in programming as one would imagine.

[Martin]

You seem to think that you'd need a stepping stone to learning C++. I would say that for the majority of programmers out there, the very first language that they learnt was C or C++.

C++ is not a particularly difficult language. It gives a lot of opportunity to shoot yourself in the foot, but at the same time it's very powerful and there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't learn it now, and learn it well. If you want to learn how to program in C++, don't ease yourself into it - go and learn C++.

But really, unless you're learning some esoteric language, there are no bad choices. Learning a programming language entails learning the language's syntax, as well as the concepts that go with it. Although the syntax will differ from language to language, the majority of the concepts will remain the same and will only serve to strengthen your abilities as a code monkey.

[wtd]

Martin wrote:

C++ is not a particularly difficult language.

And yet, I've thrown you a few curveballs with it.

[Reality Check]

I'm afraid that if I learn it now, I won't learn it well and end up sucking at it. Java or C++ is what I'd ultimately want to be using as a programming language. Any languages I learn in between them is for the sole purpose of preparing myself for Java and C++. Thanks for the help though guys.

[wtd]

More than anything....

You should learn a language for fun now, rather than doing so because you feel you have to, or even that there's any particularly good reason.