Is it worth switching from UofT to uWaterloo?

[ProgrammingFun]

I am currently studying CS at UofT and initially wanted to transfer to Waterloo (having already spoken with their admissions department).
However, with the recent university ratings ranking UofT much higher in general, I'm now confused. I know I will likely pursue a graduate degree after my undergrad (not sure if immediately after).
Would it be worth switching to Waterloo for undergrad and then switching back for a graduate degree (taking benefit of it's coop program)?
The alternative could be staying at UofT, taking PEY, and independently applying for internships for the summer (I have friends who could give me access to UTSC and uWaterloo's coop databases).

I know Tony has said before that employers generally regard Canadian universities as Waterloo/UofT and then everything else, but I'm now wondering which would be more worthwhile.

Thanks.

[crossley7]

They are both viewed as relatively equal in terms of undergrad from my experience, however U of T gets ranked higher generally because they are considered the stronger research university generally with more resources. However, all else being equal, the difference between Waterloo and Toronto undergrad programs is negligible and the co-op program, location are the primary differences between the 2.

University rankings take into account research much more than undergrad typically and so they should only be taken with a grain of salt.

[Tony]

I think that if you take PEY and your own summer internships (especially if you find something outside of Toronto area, for extra travel experience), then the difference would be negligible.

Keep in mind that transfers are a huge hassle, and you are likely to lose some credits in the process. I had to retake certain courses because Faculty of Mathematics and Faculty of Engineering had them offered in slightly different flavours. Others didn't transfer because the grade didn't make the cutoff. All this while transferring within the same University.

[ProgrammingFun]

Thanks for the insight guys.

Do you think employers would mind if I was to use university listings to independently apply for coop placements? (Or would you recommend finding other internship opportunities on my own?)

[Dan]

ProgrammingFun @ 30th October 2013, 6:15 am wrote:

Do you think employers would mind if I was to use university listings to independently apply for coop placements? (Or would you recommend finding other internship opportunities on my own?)

The worst they can do is not interview you.

Quote:

I know I will likely pursue a graduate degree after my undergrad (not sure if immediately after).

If you are interested in graduate studies and possibly a career in research or academia, the kind of jobs you will normally get for a CS co-op placement will not help much (tho they will not hurt and it is good to have a backup plan). You might want to look in to undergrad research opportunities under the supervision of a professor. Having been an RA (research assistant) while doing your undergrad would look good on masters applications as well as scholarship applications (NSERC, OGS, etc). However, it is often hard to find such positions as an undergrad, but it would still be worth asking around.

Another issue to consider is that it is some times looked down upon to get your undergrad, masters and PhD from the same university (even more so if you would ever want to get a job at that same university, a.k.a. "academic inbreeding"). If you did have plans to go all the way to PhD, you might want to consider what school you want to do each degree at and which would be better for undergrad work (mostly course and project based) and what would be better for graduate work (mostly research and thesis writing).


Personally, if it was me, I would stay at U of T for the undergrad while trying to get an RA with one of the profs there. Then, consider U of W as well as a number of other options (including U of T again) for graduate studies once you graduate and know more what you are interested in. For graduate studies a bigger part of picking a school are the potential supervisors they offer and there research areas rather then the school's overall reputation.

[ProgrammingFun]

Thanks. Is it odd to go for a graduate degree if you don't plan on pursuing a career in academia?

I have heard some people argue that it makes you a better candidate for jobs because almost everyone has an undergrad.

[Tony]

ProgrammingFun @ Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:44 pm wrote:

I have heard some people argue that it makes you a better candidate for jobs because almost everyone has an undergrad.

Those people left out the "all other things being equal".

If there are two candidates, both with zero work experience, and one happens to have a graduate degree, then they might perform better on the interviews. Or maybe not. Academia doesn't always translate well to the industry positions.

[ProgrammingFun]

Tony @ Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:30 pm wrote:

If there are two candidates, both with zero work experience, and one happens to have a graduate degree, then they might perform better on the interviews. Or maybe not. Academia doesn't always translate well to the industry positions.

Hmm, perhaps I should just focus on undergrad, PEY, and potential internships then. One more question, which of UTSG PEY and UTSC Co-op would you recommend?

[Tony]

If the difference is PEY "1 year long" work term vs. a series of 4-month long co-ops, then... there are different sets of advantages.

Different work experience offers a breadth of experience, while staying at one place offers more depth. It takes about 4 months to ramp up and being as productive as you can, so the theory is that PEY offers a much larger project to brag about later.

Of course PEY is also more risky, as the first (and in this case only) employment tends to be suboptimal.

Though ultimately you'd want both breadth and depth of the experience, so you'd have to somehow compensate for either choice.

Sorry for the lack of a clear "you should do this" answer -- there isn't one for this, but hopefully the above information help you make a more informed choice.

[ProgrammingFun]

Tony @ Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:30 pm wrote:

Sorry for the lack of a clear "you should do this" answer -- there isn't one for this, but hopefully the above information help you make a more informed choice.

Yeah, I'm definitely thankful for your responses. They offer insights that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise for another few years.