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 Computer Science Laptop
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Heisenberg




PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:05 pm   Post subject: Computer Science Laptop

Hi Everyone

Please excuse the fact that I know several threads similar to this one already exist but, as they have yet to answer the questions that have been plaguing my mind for awhile, I decided to start my own.

Alright, so I recently just accepted my offer of admission to McGill with the intent of pursuing a degree in computer science however, at present, I must confess that I have yet to develop any significant insight into the field being that I am only a university freshman. As such, I am at a loss when trying to make an informed decision about an ideal laptop to purchase for the tasks associated with the computer science.

Now, in my limited online research, I have been able to ascertain that one aproriate model would be a Lenovo T430 (apparently, because it "runs linux well" or something...like I said, I'm new to computer science). Some specs I've seen reccomended for this model include: a 1600x900 screen resolution, 14 inch screen, 8Gb of RAM, and a 7200 RPM drive.

But I have NO IDEA which of these are actually important...especially as compared to other features (e.g. i5 vs. i7 processor).

So basically, what I'm asking is "from your experience in computer science, could you please advise on:

1. The most important laptop specs/requirements for CompSci.
2. A reccomended modern laptop for computer science.
3. The optimal specs configuration for this laptop.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to review/address any of the above information. Any insight AT ALL to any of the above points is hugely appreciated even if you are unable to address all 3.
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Insectoid




PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:26 pm   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

For general computer science, pretty well any laptop will do. A big screen is a huge bonus, because you'll have lots of windows open at the same time and you'll switch between them often (get an external monitor for it too if you can). You won't need it to be extremely powerful unless you want to play games on it. An i3 CPU and 4gb of ram is quite all right. A faster CPU and more RAM will improve compile times, but unless you're building huge projects you won't notice at all.

The screen is important though. Get a huge screen and an external monitor.
DemonWasp




PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:24 am   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

You want to aim for a high-resolution (ideally 1080p or better) screen backed by a relatively good battery life and light weight.

CPU power and RAM are less important. That said, make sure you get at least a dual-core CPU with minimum 4GB RAM (preferably more). A solid-state drive (SSD) will make your life much more pleasant in general (lower weight, longer battery life, much faster).

Get an external drive if you want to store videos / backups of your personal work.

There's a lot of variety in laptop parts and there's no clear recommended choice. Do some research, read reviews, etc. You can try looking for Linux compatibility, but very few manufacturers test for that.

If you're not already familiar with Linux, now would be a good time to try a LiveCD of Ubuntu or Linux Mint (you can run the operating system off a CD, DVD or USB thumb drive without changing the underlying computer: just remove the CD/DVD/USB and reboot and it'll be back to normal).
Heisenberg




PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:31 am   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Hello again,

Thank you both so much for your advice.

Taking your insights into account while proceeding with my own independent research, I feel fairly confident that my preliminary laptop of choice (the Lenovo t430) does in fact seem to fit your specifications quite well. To verify my justifications, my thought process follows:

    a.) a 14 inch screen should meet the requirement of a large screen size
    b.) a 1600 x 900 screen res should proficiently support 1080p HD
    c.) the battery life ranges from good to amazing (6 cell vs 9 cell)
    d.) the laptop is relatively lightweight


However, I'm still uncertain about a few remaining customization choices for this laptop model. Ideally, I'd want to follow all your advice and max out the laptop to its full potential (ie. max RAM, SSD, i7 processor) but, unfortunately, rising expenses come into play. Thus, my question is "considering the following 4 customization options, what arrangement (which choices for each), would you recommend for an undergrad studying computer science (concentration: bioinformatics), specifically as if you were the one planning on using this laptop model in your studies."

1.) 500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm vs. 128GB Solid State Drive, SATA3 (add $170 to laptop cost) vs. 256GB Solid State Drive, OPAL SATA3 (add $320 to laptop cost)
2.) i5 vs. i7 processor ($160 more for i7 processor)
3.) 4gb vs. 8gb RAM ($80 more for 8gb)
4.) 6 cell vs. 9 cell battery ($50 more for 9 cell)

note: laptop costs about $800-900 with cheapest version of all of the above options if that makes any difference. Also note that I may use this laptop for post-uni programming/jobs if that would make any difference.

Again, thanks for any help you can give.
DemonWasp




PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:07 am   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

I looked up the Lenovo T430 and it looks like the best screen option is only 1600x900 (and not even an IPS panel). While that's not awful, it's certainly not great (and not 1080P, which is minimum 1920x1080, hence the '1080' part).

Memory
Add the RAM for sure; 4GB is getting pretty small these days and 8GB or more is ideal. If you're comfortable upgrading your laptop yourself, you might be able to get a better deal on the upgrade to 8GB (or more) by buying DDR3 SODIMMs at a computer store (make sure you double-check compatibility first!) and following the process here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVL-qPqK-k . Here's a suggestion (though you should definitely look around): http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_326_327_609&item_id=030496

If you're not comfortable with that, then just drop the extra money.

Processor
The processor depends on specific model numbers. In general, though, I would say that +$160 for an i7 over an i5 isn't worth it.

Storage
Choose the storage medium based on how much data you need to put on the drive. The requirements for a computer science education are very light (a couple of GB at most, usually only a few megabytes), but if you have movies or music that you want to store then you might have to go with a hard drive (either in the laptop or an external USB or eSATA hard drive). If you can afford it (and don't need the space) definitely go for the SSD: they're faster, lighter, and have more battery life.

Again, if you're comfortable with it, you can buy the laptop with the basic drive and switch it out for an SSD you buy yourself. For example, you could get a 256GB SSD (top-tier speed, too) for $260: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=179_1088&item_id=058935 . The T430 seems to have a 7mm thick bay, so be sure that you get an SSD that matches that size.

If you choose that, then you may as well get something like this at the same time, to let you use the HDD that came with the laptop as an external: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_202&item_id=032528 .

Battery
I would personally get the larger battery, but I'm a larger guy so an extra half-pound doesn't make a huge difference to me. I actually have two oversized batteries for my out-of-date laptop because I wanted to have 10 hours of battery life between them. Decide whether an extra 50% battery life would be better than having to carry around an extra half-pound every time you pick up the laptop.
TerranceN




PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:05 pm   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

I have the T430, and I really like it as a development machine.

The good:

I got minimum specs on everything except I got the best wireless card, the discrete nvidia graphics card, and the 9-cell battery. I've been able to run everything I've thrown at it (playable, but not max graphics), including battlefield 3, dark souls, and kerbal space program.

When I'm using linux, I switch to integrated graphics, I use a bunch of power saving tweaks, turn down my screen brightness, and use a more lightweight window manager (xmonad), and I get over 13 hours of battery life.

The keyboard is the best laptop keyboard I have used, even better then the macbook keyboard.

The integrated graphics work well on linux. My last laptop had a discrete AMD card, but the updated drivers refused to install, and the proprietary drivers were messed up when trying to do stuff in openGL.

A matte screen, which was surprisingly hard to find on a laptop.

The bad:

I'm not sure if it's just the wireless card I picked, but it sometimes isn't recognized by the OS. It's like it doesn't exist. It only happens on startup, and rebooting eventually gets it working again, but I have no idea why it's happening.

Weight. With the 9-cell, it can be pretty heavy and bulky for it's size.

I chose to try windows 8 when I ordered mine, but it uses a different boot method than linux (I think it was efi vs uefi). This caused problems getting dual boot working. I had to install rEFInd to be able to select which bootloader I want.

Overall it's worked great for me, I've found that the good largely outweighs the bad. I would say get the T430 mainly if you value battery life, a nice keyboard and good performance over weight or style.

Quote:

The screen is important though. Get a huge screen and an external monitor.


It depends on the person. I've always been fine with one screen as long as I have virtual desktops, and I find it really awkward having a monitor beside a laptop.
rdrake




PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:48 pm   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Couple of considerations (most of which have already been brought up):
  • Weight - You'll be carrying it around all day. Ideally keep it to 4 lbs or less.
  • Battery - You may need to go most of the day without recharging. Swapping out batteries means more to carry and interruption of work, so try to find one with all day battery life.
  • Screen - You'll be staring at the screen a lot. You'd be doing yourself a disservice by not getting an IPS panel ("Premium HD" in Lenovo speak). You don't necessarily want a "big" screen, you want one with a high resolution.
  • CPU - An i7 usually buys you hyperthreading. I doubt much of what you'll be doing will use that.
I went through undergrad with a Thinkpad R60, then a T61p. Grad school was an X220 and a Macbook Air.

Avoid the following:
  • Anything running Windows in Futureshop, Best Buy, etc.
  • Anything from Lenovo's IdeaPad line, or the Thinkpad "Edge."
  • Anything with AMD's processors in it.
Most Thinkpads run Linux just fine. If you need more information about compatibility with certain models, try ThinkWiki. If you buy a Mac you'll also receive a unix-like experience and there are few things you won't be able to do on a Mac that you could do in Linux for undergrad.
Heisenberg




PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:28 am   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Alright,

Thank you again everybody for all the help.

I apologize for my misunderstanding regarding the screen resolution, thank you DemonWasp for clearing that up for me.

Well, based on all your advice, I'm thinking I will opt for 8GB RAM, a 9-cell battery, an i5 rather than an i7 processor and I'm just a little torn regarding the storage medium. It does sound like a SSD is a considerable advantage over the HDD but the price is throwing me off being that I get less storage space with a SSD (note: I am also taking a heavy load of bio/bioinformatics courses alongside my compsci degree so that may affect storage needs).

Specifically, I had a question about one possible alternative. Browsing through the laptop's customization options, I noticed that there is also an option for a "micro hard drive" separate from the hard drive itself. Namely, I could add a 16GB mSATA Solid State Cache Drive for just $40 as opposed to $260 + to implement a full-fledged 256GB SSD. Of course, I have no idea exactly what a "micro Solid State Drive" is, let alone how it compares to a full-fledged SSD Rolling Eyes

Any thoughts?

(Also, on an unrelated note regarding the operating system, is there any occasion in computer science or university in general where it might be beneficial to have Windows 7 professional as opposed to Home Premium? In either case, is it worth dropping the extra $50 for Windows Professional or would that be a frivolous expense?)
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DemonWasp




PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:45 am   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

The "micro" hard drive option is just an mSATA-connected SSD. They come in a tiny form factor, like this: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=179_1089&item_id=054581 . They're physically tiny, but can have performance characteristics similar to a full-sized SSD (I don't know in particular about the one I linked you to; you'll have to do your own research). In particular, it seems like the mSATA slot on the T430 is SATA2 (3Gbps), not SATA3 (6Gbps), so it may not be worth it.

Lenovo's description seems to be about a small 16GB cache (not usable storage space, but a "faster" pool for commonly-used files). Although it will make the computer seem snappier, it won't provide the same kind of performance boost that a full SSD would. The $40 price I'm seeing is...maybe worth it, but seems like kind of a ripoff.

That said, it should be possible, on some laptops (but possibly not the T430) to install an mSATA SSD for the operating system and most software, and a larger HDD for media storage. If you do that, you really want the mSATA port to be SATA3 (6Gbps) rather than SATA2 (3Gbps).

If you're not particularly set on the T430, you might try posting your requirements (new CS undergrad student, need a laptop for schoolwork and entertainment, etc) on http://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/ . They will be able to provide more detailed and accurate advice than I can.
rdrake




PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:51 am   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Once you go SSD, there's no going back. With that being said...

If you can do without an optical drive, you can purchase an ultrabay adapter and put a second HDD where the optical drive usually goes. Then you can have a small ~128 GB SSD along with a 1-2 TB HDD. Put the OS and applications on the SSD and your media, porn, documents, etc. on the much larger HDD.

Many (most?) schools are enrolled in MSDNAA (AKA Dreamspark) which gives you access to a ton of Microsoft software, including Windows Pro. I wouldn't opt for the upgrade in Windows, personally, since it should be available from MSDNAA.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:59 am   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

If you're anything like me, RAM is actually pretty critical. I have 8GB and easily hit 80% or more of that.

The biggest culprit is Chrome, which is currently using half a gig of real, and 1.8 of virtual, and sometimes uses more (I have lots of tabs open).

I do end-to-end app development, so I have a server running in debug, which consumes a lot, multiple emulators running sometimes (to test cross-platform), many little development tools (linqpad, notepad++ among many others). Then I have a database which will happily consume as much space as I have left.

I'm a little bit extreme because I leave programs open rather than close and wait for them to open later, so I easily use up lots of ram, but I think going with 8 GB would probably be necessary (unless you're using older tools)
ProgrammingFun




PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:52 am   Post subject: RE:Computer Science Laptop

I'm gonna piggyback on this thread to ask whether you guys think it's worth waiting for more laptops with Haswell chips to come to the market because of their advertised improvements in power consumption (and hence battery life)?
Brendon77




PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:15 am   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Haswell chips is a best chip provide better speed that use in laptops.
Heisenberg




PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:28 pm   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Oh hey,

Totally forgot about this thread after I actually purchased the laptop. Well, if anyone's curious (or if it somehow aids other's consumer decisions), I ultimately decided on the discussed Lenovo T430 with the following specifications.

8GB RAM
1600 x 900 screen resolution
i5-3320 processor
intel HD graphics 4000
9-cell battery
256 GB SSD
intel centrino advanced (wireless LAN adapter)

Price was a little over $1000 but there was a deal on at the time and normally it would cost much more. So far, I'm loving everything about the laptop but, to be fair, school hasn't started yet so I'm not doing much programming at the moment. Nevertheless, the keyboard is AMAZING, the matte screen is awesome as there's no reflections at all when typing word documents, the thing is insanely fast, relatively light, very quiet, doesn't heat up too fast so its comfortable on one's lap, the battery life is great and, as an added bonus, the finish on the laptop doesn't collect fingerprints very easily. I love the laptop and would easily recommend it to anyone at least from what I've seen so far.

Anyway, thank you everyone for all your advice on this purchase as it proved invaluable in making my final decision. Given that I'm so impressed by the community on CompSci.ca, there's a good chance I might stay an active member over the years so if anyone has any questions regarding how I feel about the laptop's performance during my studies feel free to message me about it.
FreshFactor




PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:30 am   Post subject: Re: Computer Science Laptop

Does anyone have any experience with the Surface Pro in a university setting? Especially concerning computer science, and doing programming on it? Main PC is at home, so looking for something portable.
After some reading, watching videos, reviews, etc. It seems like a really interesting device, especially with the ability to take notes with the keyboard + pen.

Wouldn't consider getting one until next Fall at the earliest, hopefully they use a more efficient cpu to improve battery life.
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