What's the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?

[mirhagk]

I have finished my first year of compsci at McMaster University. I took a 3rd and 2nd year course and sat in on a 4th year course (I wasn't allowed to go that far ahead) in addition to my 1st year courses. Because of this I have a good idea of how difficult university is, and since this is my 5th year of working with computer science, I am more than capable of doing any of these courses, and most of the content for a course I could learn in a weekend.

I REALLY don't want to waste my time and money at university, but having a degree is pretty much a must for a lot of positions, so I need to get the piece of paper stating that I know what I'm talking about. I am wondering if anyone knows of any online/distance courses I could take and do at my own pace, ideally I'm looking for cheap ones. They need to be from an accredited university because I am going to try to transfer credits to McMaster so I can still get my degree from a good university.

I believe the limit on the number of courses I can transfer is 40%, and I take 10/year for 4 years, so I can get 16 courses from other places, including 10 electives, so they don't need to be compsci courses. I am currently taking one from Athabasca, but the price is $700 which is pretty much the regular price anyways, I just get to do it MUCH faster (I'm going to start and finish this weekend, because it's 4 assignments of 4 simple C++ programs each worth 70%, and an exam. I just need to pass, because marks from transfer credits don't count towards GPA). I'm looking into Udacity, since they have partnered with San Jose to offer 4 courses that are worth credits (their compsci is equivalent to 1st year though, so it doesn't help, but the psych and stats might be transferable). Ideally this is the kind of thing I'm looking for, because the price is $150, so taking 10 courses is not prohibitively expensive (because OSAP probably won't help out with additional courses).

Every year I can finish early is a year of pay, so finishing early is most likely better than finishing cheaper.

I probably won't be eligible for a loan besides OSAP, and my parents don't really own much either, so getting it shared under their name won't really help that much, so doing all the courses at $700 probably won't be possible, unless someone has an idea for where I can get some additional money to help pay for it.

[andrew.]

I doubt there's a legit way to do this while still getting a degree from a reputable school :/

Honestly, the best option is UWaterloo's CS coop program. The coop placements each term are usually enough to pay for a lot of school. The school is very reputable in the technology world. And you get lots of experience (from many different places too).

[Dan]

I think you are missing the point of university if you aim is simply to get your degree as fast as possible. Also claiming that you could learn the content of any undergrad CS course at your university over a weekend is incredibly arrogant.

If you really want to know about options for transferring credits, you should be talking to the chair of your department.

[mirhagk]

Actually it's not so much that I can learn all the content in a weekend as I already know 90% of the content, and I'm just missing that 10% from formal training. I've had a job working with databases, and I learned more from the first month there then from the entire semester doing a databases course.

So I can't learn ANY course over the course of a weekend, but a lot of the CS courses (and easier electives, like econ) I can do very quickly, much quicker than the 4 months allocated.

Either way, each course has 1 hour classes 3 times a week, for 4 months. That's 48 hours of class time, which is pretty much a weekend. If you focus hard enough, and are quicker than the average person (suggesting that everyone would require the 4 months is just plain silly), it'd actually not be that difficult to learn all the content in a weekend.

I actually do like university, I just want to go faster, the pace that's set for most of these courses is too slow that I don't have enough stuff to do and end up doing tons of side projects. I just feel like I could do it at at least 2x the pace, and feel like I'm wasting half my time.

I guess the subject title is a little bit off, really I'm concerned with learning as much as I can, and want to devote all my time to learning stuff, but I hate that 90% of my learning doesn't get credit (because 90% of my learning is on my own), and university is WAY too expensive for what I get out of it (job experience usually teaches me much more, and just reading up articles, blogs, papers, online books, tutorials etc teach me way more than school, and all of that is free, or at least very cheap in the case of the books). If courses were a more reasonable price (like $300) then I'd happily take as many as I could possible fill my time with. It's stupid anyways, because 90% of the money they spend goes to 10% of the students (like tutorial hours, where only a few students need help, and the rest of us pay for the help they need. It should really cost for tutors)

[Tony]

mirhagk @ Wed May 08, 2013 7:30 pm wrote:

I've had a job working with databases, and I learned more from the first month there then from the entire semester doing a databases course.

On the job you've learned some about SQL and nothing about Relational Algebra. (so practical application vs. abstract theory).

Buy hey, if you feel like you know it all already, you can find a University that will let you challenge for those credits ? http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/calendar/2012-13/pg94.html

[mirhagk]

Yeah I've talked to several profs, students in the Computer Science Society (including ones who represent faculty of computer science for McMaster) and none of them can ever recall anyone being able to challenge for credit. It took me a ridiculous amount of time just to get permission to enrol in databases class, after getting 12/12 in the closest class to the prereq that was offered in 1st semester, and having worked with databases for a year. Challenge for credit is a thing that exists in university policy, but not in practice. I'm going to try to challenge a credit for course come September, but I was wondering if anyone else had any ideas for easier ways, because the university makes it so much work it's almost less work to do the course.

Yeah I know on the job teaches more practical, and less theoretical, however I learned WAY more about relational algebra on the job than in class, so that's a poor example. Actually the only new areas I learned was on decomposing tables BCNF form, and schedules to prevent locking, SQL, relational algebra, and pretty much everything else in the course was learned in my first month at the job. Only thing I didn't learn was the exact symbols, but that's irrelevant, the theory is the important part.

I agree that university is supposed to teach theory, and should be left that way, but it sucks that a theoretical degree is required for jobs that have nothing to do with theory.

If I can successfully convince a teacher to let me challenge for credit (which will be a lot of work), then I'll take that route for a bunch of my courses. The other alternative to is convincing the school to let me take more than the required number of courses, I could easily handle a couple extra courses so long as I wasn't working.

Also I don't think I know it all, but I do feel like I know at least 75% of the course content, and don't require nearly the amount of effort as the students who are picking of compsci for the first time in their lives here.

[andrew.]

I agree with you when you say that the theory you learn in university isn't directly applicable in real life. However, I don't believe the point of university is to give you specific knowledge. In my eyes, the point of university is to teach you how to pick up abstract concepts quickly, and how to interact and connect with many people. Both of these skills are very valuable in the workforce. I'm not sure about CS, but in engineering, I've used almost nothing that I've learned so far (I'm in 3B at UW for ECE). However, the amount of work we get has forced me, and my classmates, to be able to quickly learn abstract concepts and apply them, which is a skill that can be transferred to your career.

Edit: Also, as a note, I doubt that any prof would let you challenge their course because it's extra work for them and they're probably skeptical of a first year student to successfully pass.

[mirhagk]

Yeah that's exactly why I haven't been able to challenge for credit, teachers don't want to do the extra work, and don't think that anyone could possibly have learned anything by them-self. Hopefully with all my compsci marks being 12/12 except one course that's 11, they might let me challenge stuff come fall time, but no-one I've ever spoken to has ever been given an opportunity to challenge for credit.

The problem with that view of university is that I'm not getting a ton of work, or a ton of stuff to understand. Part of the reason I want to fast track university is that I end up spending most of my time learning other concepts because comp sci courses are all introductory, and don't get very complex.

[Dan]

To be fair if I was a professor and a first year came in to my office and stated that they wanted to challenge my 4th year course with only high school CS and a year of possibly questionable work experience I would either just laugh in till you left or make the hardest examination I could think of that would still be justifiable, as i would be rather insulted by the student's arrogance.

You have the rest of your life to work a sole crushing 9 to 5 programming job. Why not take all the free time you are given (as your classes are apparently so easy) to study topics outside of the curriculum you are given? Or, if money is such a big issue, why not simply get a part time job as you don't need the free time to study?

[mirhagk]

I didn't try to challenge 4th year courses, I was trying to challenge a 2nd year course, and a single 3rd year course (that has only 1st year prereqs). I wasn't arrogant at all, I simply asked if I was allowed to enter the 3rd year course, and then when I sat down for a meeting after sending in my resume, school marks, recommendation from 1st semester professor, and quite a few samples of code from my work, I asked if it was possible to challenge the course for credit, and I got a flat out "No, McMaster doesn't do that". I didn't argue with the prof because I was still trying to get into the course, and arguing with the prof wouldn't get me anywhere.

I don't have to work at a soul crushing job, that's the beauty of compsci. Even working for a non-compsci workplace (healthcare research centre), doing web programming, it was actually pretty fun, as there were daily challenges, the only time when I wasn't challenged was when the testing team all left and all the coders had to do testing for a day. School is soul crushing, as I sit in a classroom for hours each day, unable to do anything productive, while listening to the prof explain the fundamentals of compsci, things that are taught in grade 10, and have been repeated time and time again on sites like this.

[Tony]

mirhagk @ Thu May 09, 2013 11:48 am wrote:

I sit in a classroom for hours each day, unable to do anything productive, while listening to the prof explain the fundamentals of compsci, things that are taught in grade 10, and have been repeated time and time again on sites like this.

For the most part, lecture attendance is optional.

[SNIPERDUDE]

Tony @ May 9th 2013, 2:22 pm wrote:

For the most part, lecture attendance is optional.

This. I do most of my projects at home, and only go in when required. Do pay attention though and ask your prof, some do make attendance a requirement (for whatever inexplicable reason). The extra time is put toward working on my own projects.

[mirhagk]

Yep attendance is optional, which is why I skip a lot of classes, and spend the time on my own stuff. I just feel like if I'm skipping classes, then really why am I paying $800 a course? So far the only real redeeming factor is meeting other compsci people. It just seems like a huge waste paying 10K in order to meet other software developers. The other skills (ability to learn concepts quickly, good work ethic) can be learnt from a job, which are more fun than school, and the rest of the skills I can learn on my own at home doing genuinely awesome projects.

I'm seriously considering taking a year off and just working full time for random open source projects. I think I'd learn a TON, it'd build an awesome portfolio, and it'd be really fun.

[btiffin]

mirhagk, from old guy

Until you realize that any one human can know very little of that to be known, you know very little.

Cheers

[2goto1]

University is so overrated. A sound high school education is all one needs. Actually, when I was in grade 9 I was pretty sure that I knew everything, I should have just quit high school. I had a pretty knowledgeable swagger, and a cool haircut.

Fortunately I completed university and learned to appreciate the value as I grew older...it only took to my mid-twenties or so before I began to truly appreciate the benefits that I had gained by completing my degree. Wisdom often falls deaf on the ears of those seeking knowledge.