What is more important for CS? : A degree from a reputable program/university OR Real world experience (Co op)?

[element786]

Hi,
I was recently accepted into UTSC and Guelph for Computer Science. Both have Co op programs. However it has come to my attention by the students and professors at UTSC that a low percentage of people accepted into Co op actually end up getting co op in their second year. This is due to the students not being able to maintain their GPA or "lack interest" as they told me. Guelph on the other hand has a very high percentage of students ending up with co op in their second year and since their degree is 5 years, you obtain 20 months of experience by graduation. Don't get me wrong, I am willing to put in hard work but am just looking at every possibility before i make my choice of what university I should attend.

Now i know that Guelph's CS program is not well known opposed to UofT's, but I am just confused on what to do. I was wondering if employers would consider either the rep of the program or the experience of the student.

Any help or advice is welcome, thanks!

[Tony]

The reputation of University makes it easier to get employers to take a look at your experience. Ultimately you want a balance of both.

What you have to understand is that co-op is a real job, which you have to interview for and get. As such, Guelph doesn't guarantee any placement. And you don't exactly need UTSC's approval to take a term off and work.

[crossley7]

Work experience is what eventually will be the most valuable but when you don't have an real world experience the reputation of your university will mean that more reputable companies and better jobs are more likely to be easier for you to find.

[Dan]

Both Guelph and UofT are accredited and reputable universities for Computer Science.

For most employers having the degree will just be a requirement that HR is going to check when deciding to even bother looking at your resume or just throwing it in the trash. Your experience is what will set you apart from the other candidates and get you the interview.

A big consideration for co-op should be how relevant the experience is. Getting a job doing IT support on campus for 20 months is not going to be seen as equal to working at RIM or Amazon for 20 months.

You should pick a university based on which environment will be most conducive to your successful education and latter employment (or further education if you are into grad school). This means considering a number of factors that are largely subjective to your personality and learning style. The co-op program and opportunities for real world experience, while important are only part of what a university has to offer and as such makes it hard for any one to tell you which choice would be best for you personally.

[[Gandalf]]

Like Tony said, a co-op placement is a real job. If you're not the greatest student (struggling to maintain an acceptable GPA) or don't even have the motivation to apply, you're not going to get far. This applies to the co-op programs at UofT, Guelph, Waterloo, and everywhere else. However, if you're motivated you should have no problems getting hired. Placement percentages are often maintained by students dropping out of co-op if they're not motivated or by students accepting unpaid or uninteresting positions. For the record, 100% of the CS students I know at UTSC (1/1) got a co-op placement in their 2nd year.

Dan @ 2013-03-27, 1:24 am wrote:

A big consideration for co-op should be how relevant the experience is. Getting a job doing IT support on campus for 20 months is not going to be seen as equal to working at RIM or Amazon for 20 months.

I think you mean BlackBerry.

[mirhagk]

Yeah at McMaster they are also telling students that finding a placement is hard first year, but really I see it as most students are too lazy, as me and all my friends have found jobs (in Hamilton no less). Co-op students are cheap, usually perfectly capable, labour, and the majority of places would be more than happy to hire a co-op student. You might not get your dream job, or an amazing pay, but working for near-minimum wage at a hospital is better than working for minimum wage at McDonalds.

Personally I didn't apply to the co-op program, because I didn't need help finding a job, and I figured I'd save myself the money. At the end having the work experience is what's important, not having a little thing saying you went through the co-op program.

I'd suggest UoT over guelph, not just because it's a more well known program, but finding a good, interesting job is probably easier in toronto than guelph.

[Tony]

mirhagk @ Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:13 am wrote:

finding a good, interesting job is probably easier in toronto than guelph.

I'm not sure how that's relevant. The bulk of UWaterloo co-op takes place in Toronto, and Waterloo is further from Toronto than Guelph.

Yeah, many students restrict themselves to finding a job in a tiny geographic area. But the restriction comes from their own handycap, not because of University's location.

[mirhagk]

Well I guess that's true that you could do a co-op anywhere.

[element786]

Thanks for all the replies, it's helped me clear out my thoughts and get different perspectives.

Tony wrote:

mirhagk @ Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:13 am wrote:

finding a good, interesting job is probably easier in toronto than guelph.

I'm not sure how that's relevant. The bulk of UWaterloo co-op takes place in Toronto, and Waterloo is further from Toronto than Guelph.

Yeah, many students restrict themselves to finding a job in a tiny geographic area. But the restriction comes from their own handycap, not because of University's location.

Just like Tony mentioned, most of Guelph and UofT's placements are scattered throughout the GTA, not just in their own cities.

Tony wrote:

The reputation of University makes it easier to get employers to take a look at your experience. Ultimately you want a balance of both.

What you have to understand is that co-op is a real job, which you have to interview for and get. As such, Guelph doesn't guarantee any placement. And you don't exactly need UTSC's approval to take a term off and work.

I understand Guelph's placements are not guaranteed, but was just saying it has a higher chance to get into co-op compared to UofT's.
[/quote]

Just as a side note, I was wondering if anyone can differentiate a BSE (offered at UTSC) degree and a BCOMP (offered at Guelph) degree. Would it affect me in terms of getting a job if I had one opposed to the other?
Thanks!

[Tony]

some standard reply material on SE vs. CS:

http://compsci.ca/blog/6-degrees-of-computer-science/

http://compsci.ca/blog/choosing-between-computer-science-and-computer-engineering/

http://compsci.ca/blog/the-spirit-of-software-engineering/

An Engineering degree is necessary if you want to become a professional Engineer after graduation (rare for SE). An Engineering degree also makes thing slightly easier for international work, but the other degree will not cut off opportunities.

[mirhagk]

Yeah don't worry about getting into a co-op program, if you don't get into one, you can still find a summer job, and the workplaces probably won't even know much of a difference. It'll just be harder to find one maybe, and you won't be able to apply through the school.