Old GNU/Linux user looking for some Windows advice

[btiffin]

I have no idea how people run Windows and feel safe.

Anyway, burned out a refurb machine over the summer, so working on the little one's laptop, which is Windows 7.

Had an Adobe Reader Update icon, clicked it, then watched it whir over far too many system files to feel comfortable. So, now I'm looking for the board's opinion on best virus scanner. I usually run Clam/Win but I'm willing to take input. Having no access to the source code of the toolset on this box, I'm a little paranoid. Feels like roulette of the Russian variety. "Go ahead, it's a binary that looks trusty, click it, go ahead." And oh, no, this is for money so it's secret and I can't show you sources. You (the good guy, license fee paying customer in this scenario) can't be trusted. You have to trust me. What a load of bunk.

I can't find a list of files to expect to be touched by the real 10.1.4 reader update, and I'd rather restore than spend the hour surfing through too many unrelated google hits.

I picked yesterday's restore point, but again, no sources to the toolset so how do I know the exact list of files effected by the restore? (It's a nice easy to use feature, I must admit, but not being trusted to verify exactly how it works is not nice in my humble opinion). I don't normally read over the Linux kernel sources, or the source packages from the distro repositories, but today I would have, just to get a sense of what is going on, and feeling fairly confident the binary did what it said it would.

Anyway, excuse the ranting wrapped in a question. To anyone willing to share some wisdom on Windows virus software, and detection and removal techniques, I'd be greatly appreciative.

Oh, and if you are considering software development, do yourself a favour and install GNU/Linux. Pick a distro and learn things. Code free.

Cheers

P.S. This is a completely biased personal opinion piece, your belief systems may be different. Take it for what it is.
Yet, I really would appreciate some advice from the compsci.ca crowd on getting back to feeling comfortable running a modern Windows box.

[wtd]

For free security, it's hard to beat Microsoft Security Essentials.

[btiffin]

You da man wtd; setting it up now.

Cheers

[wtd]

Excellent! </Monty-Burns>

[Insectoid]

I usually use Avast! as my general anti-virus. Malwarebyte's Anti-malware is good for a thorough cleaning once in a while.

[mirhagk]

yeah microsoft security essentials, yet I haven't had to deal with viruses for years. The only viruses I've seen on computers have been from torrents, so paying for an anti-virus is useless.

I do believe there are a few open source virus scanners, mostly meant to be run from linux on a windows hard drive, but I don't think any of them are maintained very well.

An update to a core product on windows usually does pass through many system files, mostly just ensuring that every DLL it needs is up to date, and adding a few file associations etc. You probably should be careful about clicking random binaries, but if you know the source you're fine. You can even do an md5 checksum if you're really paranoid.

I'm lolling at the rant about binaries embedded into your question, every chance you can get to try to push linux.

One thing to remember while using proprietary software is that lawsuits are common, especially in the US (where most companies are based). That puts a lot of responsibility on companies selling software that open source or free companies don't have. Software will be updated and maintained for a while, security flaws may not be seen in the source code, but as soon as someone experiences it, the fix should go out pretty quick. Most security flaws are not issues with the software itself, but issues with people not updating the software (good to see you at least want to update).

Also remember that just because you can't view the source, doesn't mean you can't decompile. Sure the code will be ugly, but so is a lot of people's code lol, and if you're just looking for lists of system files it's touching you're fine. You actually could probably even just open the .exe in notepad and view strings that are embedded into it.

[Insectoid]

Quote:

Software will be updated and maintained for a while, security flaws may not be seen in the source code, but as soon as someone experiences it, the fix should go out pretty quick.

I just facepalmed so hard I might've broken my nose.

Quote:

Also remember that just because you can't view the source, doesn't mean you can't decompile. Sure the code will be ugly, but so is a lot of people's code lol, and if you're just looking for lists of system files it's touching you're fine.

Have you ever actually decompiled something? Ugly is an understatement. Completely illegible and downright impossible to read and understand is more accurate.

Quote:

I'm lolling at the rant about binaries embedded into your question, every chance you can get to try to push linux.

Okay, okay, hold on. Just how often have you pushed Windows? And how often have I pushed OSX? btiffin is a long-time Linux user ranting about a major difference in another OS, what did you expect? This statement was completely unnecessary. Either way, I guarantee btiffin is more knowledgable than you. Google his username if you want to know why.

Quote:

I do believe there are a few open source virus scanners, mostly meant to be run from linux on a windows hard drive, but I don't think any of them are maintained very well.

Afaik, Avast! is the only one.

[mirhagk]

As mentioned Clam is one example. I grabbed a linux tool disc and it came with a whole bunch of virus scanners for windows, though the CD is not near me right now so I can't find them all.

I have no doubt btiffin knows more than me, I'm just pointing out that non-open source software also has it's advantages, so long as it's a notable company.

Microsoft is extending support to XP for another few years, that thing is DECADES old. This happens a lot with commerical software. as long as the company is around, most of the products are continued, or at least given lots of notice for when they aren't.

And for the record, I was lolling at how he's asking for help with windows at the same time as putting it down. I don't know why a live CD isn't just grabbed, I thought that would be good enough. The arguments are completed valid and I agree with most of them. Personally I'd MUCH rather use open source software for 99% of what I want to do, there are just a few things that it's worth going commercial for. For instance in a company, using commercial software is sometimes a good idea, so you have someone else to blame for problems. I am actually currently working on a suite of games that will be open source 6 months after their release. That's the way I want to do video game design (Check my website if you're interested in my philosophy on the topic of closed source software and patents eldidip.com)

[rdrake]

Microsoft Security Essentials is all I use when re-installing Windows. It's even built into Windows 8 in a different form. It's the only free product that doesn't really nag you to upgrade to their paid offerings.

I also only use Firefox or Chrome. IE has probably improved, but I'm beyond caring now.

[btiffin]

First; thanks to wtd again. Restore point and MSE scan, I'm feeling quite a bit more comfortable. Given that, I'm still planning a weekend trip to buy a new refurb, installing GRUB and Fedora and trying to forget the leftovers of bad taste that have accumulated over the last few weeks.

mirhagk;
Yeah, I may have seemed a little harsh. I actually trust Microsoft and Adobe to not embed overt badness in released software. In this case it seems the baddies made an update notice that looked like it came from Adobe.

On decompiling and reverse engineering; you know you are not allowed by EULA right?

"In the United States, EULA provisions can preempt the reverse engineering rights implied by fair use, c.f. Bowers v. Baystate Technologies."

And they mean it. Even for personal use, a binary dump of a Windows DLL means you might learn something. "They" feel that is not safe for them, the courts back the corporations, and you go to jail - even if you didn't pass any of your license breaching wisdom gains on to any others. We may be a little better off in Canada with our rights to fair use, but why even think about it when there is an entire ecosystem of computing that encourages reverse engineering of everything within the ecosystem.

everyone;
So, yeah, go right ahead and learn to program exclusively for Windows. Individually that doesn't bother me very much. Freedom is what freedom does. The computer field is still vast enough that people that want to practice "grade school Marxism" (i.e. sharing) can do so to their heart's content. And we do. Sharing gave the world the internet and the web. Windows gave us, umm, there has to be something... oh yeah, botnets.

I don't know, but I would not be surprised to hear that the licenses for the Turing compilers used in Ontario high schools include a no reverse engineering clause.

And to reiterate my world view. Tools for free, apps for fee. Along that same point of view; music for free, recordings for fee. I'm all for restricting piracy, but not restricting someone from learning a song and playing it for friends around a campfire, even one the size of Burning Man.

And finally, this is my world view and no one else can have it. It's mine. Get your own ... and be proud of it. Even if we have to disagree to the core. Freedom is cool.

Cheers

[rdrake]

Don't worry btiffin, I still hack and mod things to my heart's content. If I own a device I'll do what I damn well please with it.

I'm surprised you don't use Debian, personally. Their philosophy of freedom seems to fit yours better than Fedora's (and certainly better than Ubuntu's!).

[mirhagk]

Just because you use windows doesn't mean you have to develop only for windows and only do closed source projects. I'm actually working on a pretty awesome open source project for windows, and I'm going to make it mono compliant which will make it work on nearly every machine under the sun. Look into SMTP4Dev if you wanna know what I started with, but I'm doing something 100% more useful with it.

[btiffin]

rdrake; Debian is a good system. But, I'm tasked with building our images within the Fedora food chain, so I started using it at home.

mirhagk; Yeah, my apologies for tone; it's not coming across as clowny as when I'm joking around in a room.

I'd defend to the dea.., err Ultimate Wedgie for the right to program professionally in Visual Basic in we so choose.
and, ahh,
Get off my lawn