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 DAAAH JAVA I HATE you
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[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:07 am   Post subject: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

All of this Java hate is pretty sad, since it's clear most of it is coming as a result of all the wrong reasons. Couldn't have said it better than wtd, "you aren't allowed to hate Java until you know it well." Anything else is just beginners frustration.

What's written in Java? More than you can imagine. A good majority of the world's phones use Java as do the backends to countless popular sites. Consumer desktop applications are a tiny subset of this. If you're going to criticize Java, popularity is about the worst reason you could pick out. Also, when hating on something like Java, I think it's important to make a distinction between the language and the platform.

I'd like to point out that for application development, the language matters a whole lot less than one might think. It's all about the tools and frameworks you have at your disposal. Games and a few other things excluded, most applications nowadays don't even require that much code... they're mostly just glue.
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mirhagk




PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:54 am   Post subject: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

I agree that minus games and some specialized software applications don't require code really. Server programming, consumer apps, and mobile apps are all just knowing which API's to use, and throwing their API's together.

That's the reason why I want to get into video game design, or into specialized applications (like AI, or algorithm design), so that I can actually program, solve problems and reason, and not worry about whether the primary key of a database for a user should be used as the user ID or a 2nd number should be generated, which is pretty much the most academic conversation you'll have in regular programming.
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:15 pm   Post subject: Re: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

mirhagk @ 2012-09-11, 8:54 am wrote:
Server programming, consumer apps, and mobile apps are all just knowing which API's to use, and throwing their API's together.

I was thinking more along the lines of mobile applications when I said that. You mentioned server programming. That is an extremely broad field with some crazy programming challenges: parallelization, security, robustness... These are all things which are super important in server side development, but aren't considered much in most apps.
mirhagk




PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:28 pm   Post subject: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

sorry I meant like basic web servers, where you're essentially just building a link between html and SQL.
Panphobia




PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:20 pm   Post subject: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

Sadly, in grade 11 and 12 we've been learning java, and I started wondering if any other lang could be easier, not in concepts, I mean in simplicity, so I learned python, and man, whatever you can do in java you can do in python in 1/5 the code
mirhagk




PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 pm   Post subject: RE:DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

If you learn the functional parts of C# you can shrink it again. C# is similar to Java, but it has a lot of really nice features in it.

Python is quick and dirty, but a mess to handle for large projects, and has some weird quirks to it. To quote my python professor "If you ever develop a nuclear weapon program, please don't use python"
SmokeMonster




PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:29 pm   Post subject: Re: DAAAH JAVA I HATE you

Java hatred for me is hard to understand esp in the context of praising C++ when the two languages are largely interchangeable syntactically. Language hatred in general is pointless and a waste of energy. Do I prefer one language to another? Sure. Would I chose one language over another of given a choice? Yes. But spending time complaining about how horrible language x is is ultimately useless esp when your complaints are based on reasons that seem largely superficial.

Insectoid @ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:05 pm wrote:
jdownloader is written in Java, and it's quite obvious. Same with Eclipse. Both also have annoyingly long start-up times but work fine once they're running. My main gripe with Java is its absurd verbosity.


Eclipse has a long startup type not because it's written in Java but because it's a non-trivial application. Last time I played with it it had a similar startup time to Visual Studio which is the closest comparison not written in Java. Startup time is not what Eclipse is going to optimize for, considering the typical use case of Eclipse is starting it once and then working on it for several hours before ending the day. In that situation it's reasonable the Eclipse team would optimize for responsiveness once the app is warmed up rather than the case of startup time. Verbosity is a complaint that's basically people blaming their problems on the language, you might post a straw-man class or method name to support your point but there's nothing inherent about the language that forces you to write verbose code. Certainly there's little about Java that forces one to write code that is more verbose then that of other OO languages in the curly brace language family (anonymous inner class hack to support the equivalent of closures is one big exception but not important in the context of this discussion since C++ only recently started supporting a sane syntax for closures)
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