Software engineering vs Comp sci (UVIC VS WAYNE STATE)

[zulu]

Hey
I applied to a couple of universities for september and got in most of them. I am having a hard time deciding what university would be a wise choice in terms of career opportunities and overall ranking. The two universities that I am having trouble deciding with are:
Wayne state University in Michigan
University of Victoria in BC Canada

Yes, I am from Canada and wayne state university is closer to me then UVIC. What university has better ranking in IT?
Secondly, at UVIC I applied and got accepted to the Software engineering program. Wayne state doesn't have software engineering so I applied and got accepted into Computer Science.

The reason I was trying to do software engineering is solely for the Iron ring and P.eng (designation as an engineer? )

Since this is a Comp sci forum I might get some biased toward computer science, but I want you guys to focus on what university is better?

at wayne state there is an option of doing masters in 5 years (if your GPA is high enough in undergrad to do the accelerated masters program)

Thanks

[apython1992]

Not to be rude, but it seems to me you have some contradictory reasons for deciding on where to go and what to study:

Quote:

I am having a hard time deciding what university would be a wise choice in terms of career opportunities and overall ranking.

Quote:

The reason I was trying to do software engineering is solely for the Iron ring and P.eng (designation as an engineer? )

I don't know which of these universities has a better ranking, but that shouldn't be your primary concern unless you thoroughly understand what goes in to the ranking process - for one, rankings are almost never program-specific, and they also deal with a large number of factors that go beyond academics and reputation.

I wouldn't suggest going to university solely for material/pretentious motives (the iron ring/engineering status), but if it's that important to you then software engineering would have to be your first choice I suppose.

If you are more concerned with what kind of career you want, you should tell us a bit more about your interests. Do you just like to write code, or do you want to learn the theory behind computation?

[Tony]

zulu @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:01 pm wrote:

What university has better ranking in IT?

zulu @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:01 pm wrote:

... Wayne state doesn't have software engineering ...

Would this be a valid approximation for that question?

Also, how do tuition/living costs compare?

[zulu]

in terms of tuition UVIC is cheaper, in terms of living wayne state is better since its closer to home (4 hours) and rent is cheaper in detroit and in windsor (wherever i decide to stay)

I don't know if not having software engineering as a separate discipline hurt their ranking. Apparently in second or third year of comp sci I have the option to concentrate on software engineering (within comp sci department)


In terms of the size of the university, Wayne state is much bigger, it has the undergrad enrollment of 20765 students where UVIC has 18000 students

Is anyone familiar with victoria university? and their software program?

[Tony]

- Daily commute across the border is just a bad idea.
- Detroit's cheap rent correlates with its high crime rates. The 4 hour ride home works only if you don't fall into the 2% of the population that reports motor vehicle theft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Detroit,_Michigan
- To be fair, Victoria also reports high crime rates. Although the stats might be pushed up with small thefts rather than violent crimes. Look into the details.
-- At the very least, BC has nicer weather, better weed, and you're less likely to be stabbed for it.
- Wayne is 15% bigger. Not sure is that's considered "much bigger". Student density and variety is also important to consider.

Victoria is very close to Vancouver and Seattle, both full of tech startups.

[zulu]

apython1992 @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:16 pm wrote:

Not to be rude, but it seems to me you have some contradictory reasons for deciding on where to go and what to study:

Quote:

I am having a hard time deciding what university would be a wise choice in terms of career opportunities and overall ranking.

Quote:

The reason I was trying to do software engineering is solely for the Iron ring and P.eng (designation as an engineer? )

I don't know which of these universities has a better ranking, but that shouldn't be your primary concern unless you thoroughly understand what goes in to the ranking process - for one, rankings are almost never program-specific, and they also deal with a large number of factors that go beyond academics and reputation.

I wouldn't suggest going to university solely for material/pretentious motives (the iron ring/engineering status), but if it's that important to you then software engineering would have to be your first choice I suppose.

If you are more concerned with what kind of career you want, you should tell us a bit more about your interests. Do you just like to write code, or do you want to learn the theory behind computation?

I guess I didn't really understand the difference so much when I was applying. When I look for job postings for any "software engineer" or "programmer" job the qualification usually states B.S in Comp Sci or Software engineering. So I guess you could get the same job with either degree. However, there is obviously a difference between the two that I am trying to understand.

I read a article (http://www.stevemcconnell.com/psd/04-senotcs.htm) that has interesting reasons to choose software engineering instead of comp sci.


Tony, in terms of Victoria university being more IT prone because it has software engineering and wayne state doesn't , it might not be true. A lot of smaller universities have software engineering and some bigger universities dont have it yet. I guess its because its a relatively new discipline. For example, Lakehead university in thunder bay has software engineering as well, but in world ranking it is far behind compared to wayne state.

Talking about crime statistics, yea thats true I guess..everyone keeps telling me that lol...but I don't see it as much of a problem since I have lived in pretty bad neighborhoods in Scarborough. My only concern is to choose the right university and the right program.

from what I understand (i might be wrong) computer science is like physics, and software engineering is like mechanical engineering. In physics you will learn everything you learn in mechanical engineering and probably go more in depth. In mechanical engineering your concentration is not to go in depth into theories but to learn to apply them to design modern systems. Is that a fair comparison? Software engineering might be lacking behind right now because its a relatively new field and the IT industry is moving too fast for the education system to adapt?

Regarding daily commute, I could live in Detroit, that wouldn't be a problem. If not, from Windsor its 20 minutes drive to the campus, and you can get frequent traveler card that speeds up the crossing.

Obviously I wouldn't be driving home (4 hours) every day. It'll be on some weekends etc, compared to Victoria where it'll cost be about 800$ return ticket so twice a year will be more than enough.

I guess my real question would be, is there an advantage/disadvantage for software engineering students vs computer science students when they apply for the same job? (what does the employer prefer). Although the job posting says "comp sci or software engineering" I am sure there has to be some difference that the employer takes into account when looking at the applications.

[Tony]

zulu @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:31 am wrote:

I guess my real question would be, is there an advantage/disadvantage for software engineering students vs computer science students when they apply for the same job? (what does the employer prefer).

The name of the degree doesn't matter this much... When I was at Amazon, there were people from Computer Science, Software Engineering, Computer Engineering, and even Mechatronics Engineering, in the same interchangeable jobs. Your personal interests, attitudes, and previous jobs (personal projects and contributions to open source software can be used instead of jobs) will have a far greater impact, than CS vs SE.

[apython1992]

I'm going to university myself next year, so my opinion may not be the most useful. Nevertheless, I think Software Eng is a deeper study of the software cycle, managing software systems, and all that kind of stuff. In CS, you will learn more about algorithms, optimization, compilers and operating systems, and yes, even hardware. As far as advantages/disadvantages are concerned, I'm not sure that employers make a grand distinction between the two fields. They are overlapping fields, and graduates from either field can be successful in any job within both fields. That isn't to say both are equally qualified for all jobs, as it depends on the job exactly, but I think generally both could succeed.

If a company is looking specifically for someone to design the fastest, most efficient solution to a problem, maybe they would be looking towards hiring a computer science grad. If a company is looking specifically for someone to design elegant, marketable software applications for consumers, maybe they would tend to look at hiring a software engineer. Other than specialized cases though, I'm not sure they'd make a distinction.

Like I said though, I can't pretend I'm an expert on this, I'm not even in university yet!