McGill, Mount Allison, or Waterloo for Computer Science?

[Sykic]

Mount Allison is at least 5000 dollars cheaper than both schools but I was just wondering if it would be worth the money to go to McGill or Waterloo rather than Mount Allison.

[Tony]

Your very first Waterloo co-op jobs earns you more than $5000.

[unoho]

Tony @ Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:14 pm wrote:

Your very first Waterloo co-op jobs earns you more than $5000.

in 4 months i had to add that

[mirhagk]

Waterloo is pretty well known for computer science, hosting the CCC, as well as the math competitions. I know my gramps was a computer scientist, and whenever he hired someone, he looked for someone from waterloo (mind you that was a little while ago lol, but things like that don't really change much)

[md]

Tony @ 2011-02-15, 4:14 pm wrote:

Your very first Waterloo co-op jobs earns you more than $5000.

Any full-time job that you work at for 14 weeks will pay you more then $5000, so that's not exactly saying much...

[mirhagk]

md @ Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:47 am wrote:

Tony @ 2011-02-15, 4:14 pm wrote:

Your very first Waterloo co-op jobs earns you more than $5000.

Any full-time job that you work at for 14 weeks will pay you more then $5000, so that's not exactly saying much...

Notice the words CO OP. CO OP's generally don't pay very high, if at all. The purpose of the co op is to learn, not to get paid. So $5000 to learn, that's a pretty sweet deal.

[Tony]

Ok, sure. How about:
"Your very last co-op term could pay up to $20,000"*

Besides, there's probably some non-monetary value in earning that minimum wage working with computers, instead of in the food industry.

[md]

Oh certainly, I think coop is really the only way to go with CS; the experience vastly exceeds the value of the pay. I was just pointing out that even making minimum wage you will definitely make more then $5000.

At the same time, Waterloo is actually better respected for it's engineering programs then CS. Having talked to many, many small business owners, government management types, entrepreneurs, etc. Waterloo CS students have apparently developed a reputation for not actually knowing how to program.

I'd say make your decision on which campus you like more, and which program holds your interest. Those play a much larger role in what you get out of university then which one you go to.

[mirhagk]

md @ Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:15 pm wrote:

Waterloo CS students have apparently developed a reputation for not actually knowing how to program.

Man I see this in my school. In my grade 12 class there were four kids. All who passed grade 11 so had an entire year of learning to program. Yet apparently I was the only one who knew how to program. It's so easy for people to fake their way through that course, and never actually learn anything. It makes me think that I'm pretty smart at computer science, but when I talk to you guys I know that's a lie lol. Hey noone compete in CCC, because I want to win.

I would actually say that I am one of the few students who live in Hamilton that actually know how to program, I competed at the ECOO last year, did terribly (barely finished the third problem, didnt even get to the fourth) yet somehow still came first by a long shot. I was like "Am I actually like pretty smart?" But then I went to regionals, faced people from Toronto and I'm pretty sure I came last. So there is like 5 students in Hamilton who actually know how to program.

[DemonWasp]

md: Any sources you'd be willing to name? All I've ever heard from employers is that they love hiring UW students and grads, on the assumption that they can program by virtue of having attended the big grey brick.

[md]

DemonWasp @ 2011-02-17, 9:59 am wrote:

md: Any sources you'd be willing to name? All I've ever heard from employers is that they love hiring UW students and grads, on the assumption that they can program by virtue of having attended the big grey brick.

Specific individuals? No, I won't give names. However there are a few managers whom I've met and worked for at the Canada Revenue Agency and a few at CRC; plus various other private sector employers either I know directly or whom I know through class-mates. It's far from a scientific study and may be nothing more then one or two bad hires but that' what I've heard.

It's also worth pointing out that graduated being incapable of programming is hardly a unique problem. It's absolutely shocking how many people manage to graduate from all over despite being incompetent. Assuming that someone knows how to do something (program) because they have a piece of paper that says they can do something else (CS) is always dangerous.

Yes, CS is not the same thing as programming.

[Tony]

To be fair there are some UW grads that absolutely rock in SDE positions, and those are almost exclusively picked up by top tier tech companies (lot of money) and startups (lots of fun).

Not sure how much CRA pays or what kind of exciting technology they use, but I would bet that they don't get to hire UW grads with offers from Google.

[md]

Nope, not usually. CRC on the other hand... now that's some interesting stuff!

I think my point was more that the reputation of the school really has little overall bearing. If your at the top of your class then you'll likely have found a way to excel and work for whomever you want. If your not at the top of your class then you're competing with everyone else just the same.

Besides, after you've actually been out working for any length of time (coop included) it's your previous job history and experience that counts - not what school you went to.

[DemonWasp]

The sad thing is that I'm usually at the lower end of my classes. I typically pass my CS courses with a 55-70%, largely by virtue of a 75% final exam (or 50% final, 25% midterm, or...). I just can't motivate myself to work much on assignments that I know are just going to get filed under /dev/null in a week.

On the other hand, I contribute to open-source projects, and I'm gainfully employed by a large tech company as a software developer. This world doesn't make any sense.

[dideler]

I made an account just to say a few things.

md wrote:

Waterloo CS students have apparently developed a reputation for not actually knowing how to program.

You're not the only one who has heard this. I hear it fairly often around my university. The story goes that they're so focused on the theory that they have no practical experience. Is it true? I don't know.

md wrote:

I'd say make your decision on which campus you like more, and which program holds your interest. Those play a much larger role in what you get out of university then which one you go to.

I agree. What you make out of your university experience definitely plays a much larger role than what university you go to.

DemonWasp wrote:

The sad thing is that I'm usually at the lower end of my classes.
On the other hand, I contribute to open-source projects, and I'm gainfully employed by a large tech company as a software developer.

You don't need to be at the top of your class. Sure some corporations look at your transcript, but the majority look at your experience.
I go to a university that's pretty much unknown for CS, so how do I put myself out there? I enter many CS competitions and represent my school, I joined the Co-op program and have worked on some really cool projects, I'm an executive for our department's computer science club, I like to work on weekend projects in my free time, and much more.

I'm often so involved in extra-curricular activities that I don't have much time left for my school work, but I'm probably learning more than if I spent all my time doing assignments and studying. I try to do well in school, but I put more effort into my work outside of my grades. It's a different approach, probably the same result.

edit: Forgot to answer the OP. For your undergraduate degree it doesn't matter much which school you go to. Pick the one you feel most comfortable with. I'm glad I didn't go to any of the top CS schools because I'd be stressed with how competitive it is. Instead I went to a small school where all my professors know who I am and it's at a beautiful geographical location. You'll find very intelligent and talented people at any school.