Computer programmers and software engineers

[deathbow2134]

Hello all!

I've made posts about this before, so I'm sorry if I'm bugging anybody with my repetition. :p

I understand what the difference between computer programmers and software engineers is supposed to be. But what I don't understand is that according to most career websites they both just need a bachelors degree in CS. I use to think that programmers were people who just had a high school diploma, or some kind of college diploma/certificate in computer programming, but that doesn't seem to be true. Software engineers make around $20,000 more then programmers. They have the same education. I don't understand.

Also, this website
http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/ojf/pdf/2173_e.pdf
and
http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/ojf/pdf/2174_e.pdf

says that software engineers need to be certified as professional engineers (P.Eng), CAN software engineers become professional engineers?

Somebody explain the difference between these professions to me! [/url]

[jbking]

The part about a P.Eng is the following:

Quote:

Licensing by a provincial or territorial association of professional engineers is required to approve
engineering drawings and reports and to practise as a Professional Engineer (P.Eng.). Candidates for
license must have completed an engineering program accredited by the Canadian Engineering
Accreditation Board of the Canadian Council of Professional Engineers or demonstrate equivalent
educational qualifications, as well as have 48 months of satisfactory engineering work experience. At
least one year of work experience must be obtained in a Canadian jurisdiction.

While I did graduate with a Computer Science degree and have been a Web Developer for the past 12 years, I never did get an P.Eng. credential. When I worked in the US, I was listed as a "Software Design Engineer" and my CS degree was sufficient for how they defined an engineer. Different places may have different levels of how to define things, so don't forget this when having discussions on on-line sites where people from anywhere in the world may answer something. My work as a Web Developer is something of a mix between the two jobs listed as most of what I do involves integrating various software programs into systems. For example, my employer could go and buy some off-the-shelf content management system and I get to be part of the team that has to integrate that system into how our websites work. While some of this may be easy, there are some aspects that can be tricky and hard which has come up at least a few times in the couple of years that we've been doing this stuff.

The "Software Engineer and Designer" seems to be slightly higher than the "Computer Programmer and Interactive Media Developer" is how I'd look at it as the former is doing some of the design work of how should this fit into other things and one of the titles was an Architect that isn't the case in the others' job description. However, I'm not sure how many employers would want to try to figure out how to divide up their workers into each group.

[Tony]

"Engineer" is a regulated profession in Canada, but not in United States. A Computer Science degree is not an accredited Engineering program, so a CS grad cannot become a P.Eng in Canada. A Canadian graduate from Software Engineering could become a P.Eng, but there is typically little benefit from that (one already gets their Iron Ring at graduation).

In U.S. people that work in the software industry (CS, SE, CE, it's mostly the same thing) _and_ make more money and/or have more responsibilities like to call themselves Software Engineers. Since the title is not regulated, that's what they get on their business cards.

[deathbow2134]

If I get a CS degree, will I end up just doing mindless programming? I don't want to just be a programmer. I want to design software.

[[Gandalf]]

deathbow2134 @ 2010-07-21, 8:54 pm wrote:

If I get a CS degree, will I end up just doing mindless programming? I don't want to just be a programmer. I want to design software.

You'll probably be doing programming, but it doesn't have to be mindless... Depends on your interests, I guess.

Designing software is something that's usually done by people who have been programming software for a long time, possibly in collaboration with more specialized roles like graphics designers, balance designers, etc.

[Tony]

You get to have much more impact on design / direction of software at small startups. Perhaps that's a direction that you could consider.

The type and quality of work that you do largely depends on what kind of jobs you take. If you are good at what you do, then you get _a lot_ of choice.

[jbking]

deathbow2134 @ Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:54 pm wrote:

If I get a CS degree, will I end up just doing mindless programming?

I could be wrong but I believe many of the mindless programming jobs have gone overseas to places like India and Russia. While you could end up doing mindless programming, there is a lot of choice about what you do so that for those that would want to do mindless programming that works for them and for others they may just stay in academia researching various ways to develop software for another option to consider.

[learnlearn]

I would like to tell you about my experience if this could help you

I graduate with computer science degree; I started my career working as database developer. Frankly, I found that what I studied in the college was not enough; so I started doing different IT courses like oracle in order to do my work well.

In other word, studying at the university is giving you good idea about the science but when you face the market you definitely going to learn many things.

So I suggest that you do computer science degree (it worth), then get use of your summer time to work in IT companies sometimes and sometimes do some IT track that you interested in. This also good for your CV

My name is learn// http://computing-topics.blogspot.com/