Worst Mistake of My Life :(

[ccino]

Hey

I applied to UW Computer Science and UW Computing and Financial Management.
I was stupid enough to believe MHF4U (Advanced Functions) was not a highschool requirement for going into these programs.
I thought I needed functions to graduate but not for uni applications as I reckoned it wouldn't be part of my top 6 marks.
Obviously I was wrong and have made a huge mistake- I slacked in functions thinking that I just had to pass it and have around a 55-60%.
For 2nd university uploads, my top 6 average (without functions) was around 86 (calc 83, english 87, world issues 92, financial securities 88, accounting 83, economics 84).
Heres the saddest part- even if you include my 55% functions mark, i still have an 80 average BUT since it is lower than the UW pre-req requirements of 75%, I'm screwed.
So far, I got an alternate offer from UW Computing and Financial Management to UW Geomatics. Geomatics is a good course but I really have little interest in geography and believe i would get bored very easily.
I have not been declined by UW Computer Science but I guess it's only a matter of time .

At this point, I really don't know what to do or who to consult. I think my only option is to either take UW Geomatics or do summer school Advanced Functions and then reapply for UW CS in the winter term (January 2011). Does anybody know about the chances of being able to transfer from UW Geomatics to UW CS? Is ther anyway I could get a conditional offer for UW CS with the condition being that I redo Advanced Functions in summer school and achieve a minimum grade set by UW, i.e. 85%+ or something like that ?

Please help!

[TheGuardian001]

I'd retake the course even if you don't get conditional acceptance. Just reapply next year. There's no point in wasting 4 years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars on a course you don't care about and aren't interested in.

I'd also look at course requirements in the future.

[chrisbrown]

ccino @ Sat May 15, 2010 6:31 pm wrote:

if you include my 55% functions mark, i still have an 80 average BUT since it is lower than the UW pre-req requirements of 75%, I'm screwed.

I can't find anything on the UWaterloo site that says MHF4U has to be above 75%, nor that it has to be included in your 6 course submissions, although I could be wrong on that. Still, don't give up hope just yet. That said,

ccino @ Sat May 15, 2010 6:31 pm wrote:

I slacked in functions thinking that I just had to pass it and have around a 55-60%

You will not succeed at UW with that attitude (from someone who made similar mistakes). Put your best effort into everything you do.


- If you are not accepted to CS and choose the Geomatics route: CS115 will transfer; a strong performance in that would support your desire to switch to CS.

- If you choose to stay another year, immerse yourself in math. When you learn something in class, wiki it and learn more about it. It will undoubtedly pay off in the next few years (at the very least).


You can always contact a CS advisor; emails are publicly available. They will know more about admission requirements than high school guidance counsellors.

[ccino]

methodoxx @ Sat May 15, 2010 7:01 pm wrote:

I can't find anything on the UWaterloo site that says MHF4U has to be above 75%, nor that it has to be included in your 6 course submissions, although I could be wrong on that. Still, don't give up hope just yet. That said,

from http://www.findoutmore.uwaterloo.ca/programs/Computer%20Science
Required courses

Advanced Functions
Calculus and Vectors
English
Grade 12 M Computer and Information Science or one other Grade 12 U course

darn it I have no idea how I was stupid enough to have missed that...

methodoxx @ Sat May 15, 2010 7:01 pm wrote:

You can always contact a CS advisor; emails are publicly available. They will know more about admission requirements than high school guidance counsellors.

:O good idea... thanks, at least thats something!

[chrisbrown]

Ok, I looked at that, but now I guess I could see that implies those must be part of the six... the 75% minimum is your overall average though, not for individual courses.

Overall, I think I would have to agree with Guardian: retake it, work a job you won't get too attached to, and apply next year. If you're planning on moving out, you'll need the money; otherwise, there's nothing wrong with some extra cash.

[jcollins1991]

I can't find anything about it on the site anymore, but last year there was no minimum requirement for any given course, only that the combination of english, advanced functions, and calculus and vectors needed to be atleast 75%, which is exactly what yours works out to...

And there aren't emails publicly available (well there are, but don't bother contacting any advisor in specific cause it might not get dealt with as fast), just the email address csadvisors@student.cs.uwaterloo.ca (http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/current/people/officeHours.shtml)... But my advice, calling them is probably your best option... I contacted them earlier this term and was told one thing because the advisor didn't quite understand what my situation was, but when I went in person and talked with an advisor everything was cleared up in just a few minutes...

Last thing, I'd avoid telling them you slacked off... From my experience UW is fairly accommodating for peoples problems if it's something out of their control or if they show they've tried, but I don't think they'd be very generous otherwise... I'm not sure if it's possible since you've already done calculus, but if you can redo advanced functions, I think they'd be abit more understanding, as long as you show you're willing to put the extra effort into it...

[endless]

the emphasis of Geomatics is gathering, storing, and processing geographic information. from this, it inevitably requires some CS, but probably not enough to satisfy someone who is taking geomatics as a last resort for CS. if you're not interested in geography, this course probably isn't for you. the chances of being able to switch from geomatics to CS are very small.

definitely shoot an email to a UW CS advisor and see what the best options are. i'd say you may want to look into going into CS at another school (if you applied to other schools), do well, and transfer courses to waterloo. again, this would have to involve an advisor to ensure things will move smoothly.

another solid option which has been mentioned is staying back a year and retaking functions, learning some math on your own and getting into UW CS.

[ccino]

hey,
thanks for all the input.
I emailed a CS advisor but probably won't get a response till Monday.

Btw, is applying in the Winter Term a bad idea? Just wondering since nobody mentioned anything about it yet.

[Prabhakar Ragde]

I think the most important thing said in this thread so far was said by methodoxx:

You will not succeed at UW with that attitude (from someone who made similar mistakes). Put your best effort into everything you do.

A surprising number of students in CS 135, the first course for CS majors, fail to get the 60% needed to proceed into the next course, CS 136, despite their having gotten high school CS marks in the 95-100% range. Why? Because assignments are only worth 20%, each one is only worth 2%, and faced with a time crunch, they say to themselves, "This doesn't count for much... I'll just study hard for the final." But the final hits them like a ton of bricks, because they didn't learn what they needed to learn in a timely fashion.

So, ccino, here are your choices.

1) Take the Geomatics offer, work your butt off on all your courses, including the geography that's never inspired you before, and do so well in all of them that they'll accept a transfer into CS. Be prepared to be refused anyway.

2) Take AdvFunc in summer school and apply for Winter 2011 admission. I don't know if they still do this, but they have students coming from a term of ESL, so there is a possibility (check with the Math Undergrad Office). Take another course as well. Ace both. Write on your AIF that you did a stupid thing and you've seen the error of your ways.

3) Take AdvFunc and a few other courses in a fifth year, pull your average up, work part-time, do some volunteering, and make it clear on your application for Fall 2011 admission to CS that you've learned something and you're ready for university.

4) Go somewhere else for fall 2010. There's a chance you can transfer, but don't count on it. Go somewhere that you can be reasonably happy if you have to complete your degree there.

You don't have to get 75% in all courses, but AdvFunc has to be counted in your average, and I compute that average as 81 point something, below cutoff for the past few years. There is no way they will give you some sort of conditional offer for fall 2010 based on summer school, and there is no way that someone looking at marginal cases to fill target slots freed up by refusals will take you with a 55 in a required math course.

Fortunately, it is not a race, and you will not die if you cannot be in this fall's incoming UW CS class. Too many people who are will make mistakes even stupider than you have made. They will lose scholarships, lose a term, lose a year, get kicked out of CS, get kicked out of UW. You made your mistake early. It hurts. I'm sorry. But keep that pain fresh in your mind. It will help you avoid making any more mistakes.

[chrisbrown]

They try to schedule things around a September start point, meaning there are many more first-term classes in September than in January or May. You may run into scheduling difficulties - not to mention availability of help.

Frosh week is also worth taking part in; you will most likely meet valuable lifelong friends, and potentially get an easier transition into independant living.

[jcollins1991]

I don't anything wrong with applying for the winter term, since all of the first term courses for math are still offered (I think they're actually offered year round..)...

I'm not sure about going to another university then trying to get into UW after though... I can't say anything about how it would work with the regular program since I've never seen requirements for that, I think it'd be easier since there's less demand for it... For co-op you might have a hard time, I'm not sure of exact numbers but I think transferring into co-op from regular CS within UW you need an 80% average, and for transferring from another university into co-op would probably have even higher requirements depending on how difficult UW thinks the programs there are (just like admissions requirements for Ontario students are different from those for out of province students)...

[Prabhakar Ragde]

Transfer students from other institutions are not allowed into co-op, period. I know a very good transfer student who was denied co-op despite an excellent record and a very strong recommendation from me.

Here are the transfer requirements into CS for other Math students. UW non-Math students have to complete a term in the Math faculty. Anyone not already in co-op will not be allowed into co-op.

http://ugradcalendar.uwaterloo.ca/default.aspx?PageID=10994

Transfer requirements for students from other institutions are handled on a case-by-case basis.

[jcollins1991]

Prabhakar Ragde @ Sat May 15, 2010 8:03 pm wrote:

A surprising number of students in CS 135, the first course for CS majors, fail to get the 60% needed to proceed into the next course, CS 136, despite their having gotten high school CS marks in the 95-100% range. Why? Because assignments are only worth 20%, each one is only worth 2%, and faced with a time crunch, they say to themselves, "This doesn't count for much... I'll just study hard for the final." But the final hits them like a ton of bricks, because they didn't learn what they needed to learn in a timely fashion.

...

Fortunately, it is not a race, and you will not die if you cannot be in this fall's incoming UW CS class. Too many people who are will make mistakes even stupider than you have made. They will lose scholarships, lose a term, lose a year, get kicked out of CS, get kicked out of UW. You made your mistake early. It hurts. I'm sorry. But keep that pain fresh in your mind. It will help you avoid making any more mistakes.

To illustrate the first point... In first term I knew probably around 15 people who were taking CS135... In second term, only 4 of them were taking CS136... But I will agree assignments are crucial, I did the assignments for all of the first half of CS136 before the midterm and did fairly well, but ended up only half doing 3 of the later assignments (not slacking, just unrelated problems) and completely failed the final... One of my friends never did their assignments, or only started the day they were due, and I honestly don't think she passed any of them, and maybe even failed the course...

And when PR talks about losing a term or getting kicked out, he's not talking about the odd student here and there... I don't know anyone who's gotten kicked out, but I do know a few people who are taking courses for the second or third time and have literally lost an entire year of university study already...

[Dan]

I would say your mistake was only applying to one university.

There are many universities in Ontario and Canada as a hole that offer excellent Computer Science programs and simply going to Waterloo is not going to make you a superior Computer Scientist. You get from university what you put into it and it's far better to pick a university where you think you will succeed and be happy then one based on reputation.

My advice is to see if you can apply to any other university you like ASAP (many don't have minimum requirements for individual courses other then passing them). This may require actually contacting some one in the admission or CS department as applications for the fall term are likely closed however some smaller universities may still have positions they want to fill.

If that fails you can fall back on an winter term application after summer school, but don't just apply to one university.



Also if you have any interest in going to Lakehead, i might be able to get you in contact with some one that can help. They are always looking for new CS students here (assuming they meet the min requirements).

[flayz]

75 in af isnt specifically stated on waterloo's site

but the admissions prob wants people with 75+ in math courses especially for CS

even if u have a 90 avg but with low math marks - u prob wont get in...

i know someone got rejected by CS cuz they had less than 80 in calculus but had 87 avg....

i got in with 85 avg.... with high math marks and a strong AIF