How to prepare for the CCC senior group?

[jimjim168]

I've been doing with the previous competitions and nearly got no problem.
Can anybody tell me what kinda programming skill or algorithm does the CCC senior group require?
Tks.

[mseo]

Just to clarify, does this mean that you had no problem solving past competitions problem or that you had hard time solving them?

[USEC_OFFICER]

Grammar is very important. Also jimjim168 should check the CCC preperation thread. (It has been on for a while now.) You really just need algorithms to complete the CCC, programming skill has surprisingly little to do with it.

[TerranceN]

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:48 pm wrote:

Grammar is very important. Also jimjim168 should check the CCC preperation thread. (It has been on for a while now.) You really just need algorithms to complete the CCC, programming skill has surprisingly little to do with it.

Define programming skill. IMO, since you need to iterpret the question and develop a logical process of solving the problem, it is using programming skill. For example, the last problem of the senior stage one last year, dealt with determining if a point is in a circle. Sure you can know the algorithm, but without developing an effective way of using that algorithm, you will never come up with a solution.

[bbi5291]

TerranceN @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:17 pm wrote:

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:48 pm wrote:

Grammar is very important. Also jimjim168 should check the CCC preperation thread. (It has been on for a while now.) You really just need algorithms to complete the CCC, programming skill has surprisingly little to do with it.

Define programming skill. IMO, since you need to iterpret the question and develop a logical process of solving the problem, it is using programming skill. For example, the last problem of the senior stage one last year, dealt with determining if a point is in a circle. Sure you can know the algorithm, but without developing an effective way of using that algorithm, you will never come up with a solution.

The point is that algorithmic skills are much more important in the CCC than design skills. You can submit your solutions with no indentation or comments, goto statements instead of loops, and neither auxiliary functions nor classes, and nobody will care as long as they are correct and efficient.

Every year there are some expert developers among the invitees to stage 2, like Michael Chang and Jamie Wong. However, they are very much outnumbered by the mathematically gifted like Jonathan Schneider, Cyril Zhang, and John Liu. (Woburn is a bit of an exception; we're pretty much the only people who are much worse at math than we are at CS.) Invariably it is the latter who make IOI.

[jimjim168]

mseo @ 2010-02-21, 10:31 pm wrote:

Just to clarify, does this mean that you had no problem solving past competitions problem or that you had hard time solving them?

Yeah, I meant I nearly had no problem with them.

[jimjim168]

USEC_OFFICER @ 2010-02-22, 5:48 am wrote:

Grammar is very important. Also jimjim168 should check the CCC preperation thread. (It has been on for a while now.) You really just need algorithms to complete the CCC, programming skill has surprisingly little to do with it.

Alright, gotcha. Thanks!
Imma work harder on the algorithms!

P.S. I'm a Chinese so imma take the test in TsingHua University in Beijing...

[A.J]

See, define mathematically gifted, Brian.

[jimjim168]

TerranceN @ 2010-02-22, 6:17 am wrote:

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:48 pm wrote:

Grammar is very important. Also jimjim168 should check the CCC preperation thread. (It has been on for a while now.) You really just need algorithms to complete the CCC, programming skill has surprisingly little to do with it.

Define programming skill. IMO, since you need to iterpret the question and develop a logical process of solving the problem, it is using programming skill. For example, the last problem of the senior stage one last year, dealt with determining if a point is in a circle. Sure you can know the algorithm, but without developing an effective way of using that algorithm, you will never come up with a solution.

Yeah, you do got a point there!

[USEC_OFFICER]

Algorithms are just math. All programming languages can do math. You have to program those algorithms in and make them work, but it is the algorithms that are important, not the program. (You can fix a program, but if your pathfinding algorithm is out of wack, good luck fixing it.) If programming was important, some languages would be better than others. Which would mean that those languages would be studied more, not always a good thing.

EDIT: Let's not post anything inane. Okay?

[TerranceN]

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

Algorithms are just math. All programming languages can do math. You have to program those algorithms in and make them work, but it is the algorithms that are important, not the program. (You can fix a program, but if your pathfinding algorithm is out of wack, good luck fixing it.)

I disagree, they are both important. Lets say you know how to pathfind but do not know how to incorperate that into a program, you are equally as incapable of making it work.

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

If programming was important, some languages would be better than others. Which would mean that those languages would be studied more, not always a good thing.

There are better languages than others, it depends on what you are trying to do. People use C++ and not Turing for professional games for a reason.

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

EDIT: Let's not post anything inane. Okay?

Just because my views on programming differ from yours do not mean either of our ideas are meaningless.
EDIT: I think our ideas of what an algorithm are, differ. I see it as something like an equation, not necessarily an implementation of that equation, which I see as programming using the algorithm.

jimjim168 @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:09 pm wrote:

P.S. I'm a Chinese so imma take the test in TsingHua University in Beijing...

You can take the Canadian Computing Competition abroad?

[bbi5291]

TerranceN @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:41 pm wrote:

You can take the Canadian Computing Competition abroad?

You can take it at HKU or THU as well. Every year there are a handful of Chinese kids (no, not Chinese Canadians, Chinese Chinese) at stage 2.

[jimjim168]

TerranceN @ 2010-02-22, 11:41 am wrote:

jimjim168 @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:09 pm wrote:

P.S. I'm a Chinese so imma take the test in TsingHua University in Beijing...

You can take the Canadian Computing Competition abroad?

Yeah, luckily I'm in Beijing.
As the official website says, "The CCC is also held at the University of Hong Kong and held in Beijing, China at Tsinghua University." You know, TsingHua University is one of the best universities in China. Anyway, I suppose that it's better to study Computer Science in a western country like Canada.
Maybe the biggest challenge for most of us is to understand the problems...

[USEC_OFFICER]

TerranceN @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:41 pm wrote:

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

Algorithms are just math. All programming languages can do math. You have to program those algorithms in and make them work, but it is the algorithms that are important, not the program. (You can fix a program, but if your pathfinding algorithm is out of wack, good luck fixing it.)

I disagree, they are both important. Lets say you know how to pathfind but do not know how to incorperate that into a program, you are equally as incapable of making it work.

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

If programming was important, some languages would be better than others. Which would mean that those languages would be studied more, not always a good thing.

There are better languages than others, it depends on what you are trying to do. People use C++ and not Turing for professional games for a reason.

USEC_OFFICER @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:43 pm wrote:

EDIT: Let's not post anything inane. Okay?

Just because my views on programming differ from yours do not mean either of our ideas are meaningless.
EDIT: I think our ideas of what an algorithm are, differ. I see it as something like an equation, not necessarily an implementation of that equation, which I see as programming using the algorithm.

jimjim168 @ Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:09 pm wrote:

P.S. I'm a Chinese so imma take the test in TsingHua University in Beijing...

You can take the Canadian Computing Competition abroad?

This is going to be a long post.

I was talking to jimjim about the inane stuff, not you guys. (I am enjoying our aurgument.)

If you can't make a program do math, then you can't program and shouldn't be in the CCC. Learning to program equations and algorithms into a program is one of the first things you learn. I'm saying that since you don't have to do anything complex programming wise, you don't need to be a good programmer, just a solid grasp of the basics.

We are not making games here. Turing can do basic math as good as C++, therefore they are both good languages for CCC. All the CCC people care about is answering their question.

An algorithm is like an equation, yet slightly different, I don't remember how exactly.