claims of free energy

[Homer_simpson]

i've seen a lot of bogus videos of people claiming to get free energy out of nothing but this one seems pretty interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5jtx0IFgQ
http://www.lutec.com.au/how.htm

[Vermette]

Actually by the sounds of it he just built an inverter.

[Tony]

He's powering an AC-generator with a DC motor. It sounds like there might be some new design choices that let the two components share physical parts; but the state-of-the-art for either is far from 100% efficiency, let alone beyond that.

[Dan]

A good way to tell if some crazy inventor or sincentist cliams are true is to see where they published them.

Did they submit there findings to a peer reviewd journel? Or did they just call a local news station and make clamins that break the laws of temormdynaicks and have no proof beyond a cool looking mashen.

If they realy had somthing that was over unity they could plug it into it's self and it should run forever only geting faster and faster. Tho i have a fealing they would never try this test as it would likey stop in a few miniutes.

Extorontary claims require extonratry evidence, not just a clip of a motor on a local t.v. station.

Tony @ 8th May 2009, 12:09 pm wrote:

He's powering an AC-generator with a DC motor. It sounds like there might be some new design choices that let the two components share physical parts; but the state-of-the-art for either is far from 100% efficiency, let alone beyond that.

Maybe but if you go from DC battery to DC motor to AC-generator to some other power using device, even at 100% efficiency your still only getting the same output of the orignal battery but AC. Also there is no way it could be 100%, there would have to be energey lost due to heat and firction. The fact that you can hear it running proves that there is some eneergey loss some where (some power is being turned in to vibrations witch cause sound waves), so the output has to be less then the battery witch you start with.

It might be posible that his claims are being misreperstend and it realy is just a more efficient motor or a more efficient DC to AC conversion but it's deftaly not free enegery.

[Homer_simpson]

it's true i understand that according to physics nothing can run better than 100% efficiency, that's y i find it hard to believe.

[Insectoid]

Sun + solar panel = free energy (after a one-time cost). Sun don't cost nothing, and only a few panels (no more than $5000 for the whole deal) could potentially take you right off the grid. Add a windmill or two and you're set.

[matt271]

Homer_simpson @ Fri May 08, 2009 2:31 pm wrote:

it's true i understand that according to physics nothing can run better than 100% efficiency, that's y i find it hard to believe.

why can nothing be over 100% efficient? because somebody in a class room told u that?

what if nobody told u that, and instead, somebody told u this machine exists that is 440% efficient. how would you know the difference?

i believe the machine either is fake, or it does work but its getting its energy from something.

[Homer_simpson]

matt271 @ Fri May 08, 2009 2:49 pm wrote:

Homer_simpson @ Fri May 08, 2009 2:31 pm wrote:

it's true i understand that according to physics nothing can run better than 100% efficiency, that's y i find it hard to believe.

why can nothing be over 100% efficient? because somebody in a class room told u that?

what if nobody told u that, and instead, somebody told u this machine exists that is 440% efficient. how would you know the difference?

i believe the machine either is fake, or it does work but its getting its energy from something.

i said according to physics, meaning that according to our current understanding of the universe, however our species seems to prove itself wrong all the time its the beauty of science and the universe.

[isaiahk9]

I'm betting it's a scam. An elaborate scam, but a scam nonetheless. Throughout the years there have been "perpetual motion" machines, one of which was believed to be "real" for more than year, earning more than $12 million, until somebody realized it was being powered by a little old man in the basement.

Like Hacker Dan said, if they plugged the machine into itself, it would generate limitless electricity. That's just not possible.

Oh, and I couldn't resist to add :
@ matt271 : That's all poetic, and hopeful but is ridiculous, nonetheless. If the law of conservation of energy is flawed, then we would have to go back to the drawing board for almost all major physics concepts. If nobody told me that nothing can be 100% efficient, I would've figured it out eventually.

[Homer_simpson]

not to defend this machine but there's been a few scientists that were only recognized for their work after their as their work was deemed ludicrous by concurrent scientist(example: Nicola Tesla)

[Zeroth]

@matt271 You make an interesting point... one which you didn't intend to make. Ideas like yours are why education needs to be done better. You see people as being told stuff is possible, and there is no understanding behind it. So you see decrees, with no rationale, which understandably makes some people doubt education, scientists and so on.

The reason why energy has to be conserved(except in nuclear situations), is because it is self-apparent when you consider certain things. Imagine you had a closed system, where no energy leaves, and no energy enters. Now, when energy is consumed in a reaction... its impossible to get all of it back. If you have a limited amount of energy, it eventually means the closed system runs down, eventually. This all rests on the idea that you cannot get energy back when it is used for a reaction. This is borne out. When you drop something, and it gains kinetic energy, the amount of energy it took to raise that object is either equal to or, more than the energy it gains from dropping. Some energy is lost to friction, to heat, to compression of the object as it falls. Because friction always exists, even at a tiny amount, all reactions, physical, lose energy. So the closed system runs out after awhile. A perpetual machine breaks that concept.

This is why nothing can ever be 100% efficient. Every action causes a loss of energy to friction, somewhere, at the very minimum. And now you know!

[Dusk Eagle]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in Physics, but what Zeroth said is wrong. The amount of energy in the Universe is constant (First Law of Thermodynamics). That means that energy is never lost nor ever gained. However, all transformations of energy result in an increase of heat energy (Second Law of Thermodynamics). When you rub your hands together, energy is not actually "consumed" by friction, but rather converted to heat energy, which is why your hands get hot.

If these two laws are taken to be true, no perpetual motion machine can exist, and neither can limitless energy. Since energy cannot be created or destroyed, no machine can be > 100% efficient. Likewise, taking into consideration the second law of thermodynamics, since any machine used to convert one source of energy to another (which is what all our energy stations do) increases the total entropy (heat energy), no machine can be exactly 100% efficient either. They all convert energy at some efficiency < 100%. (Note: the total energy is still the same, but the heat energy they produce is worthless and does not count toward efficiency.)

[BigBear]

Didn't Nikola Tesla devise a way to get free energy from the stratosphere hard to find credible information about his projects what with his death ray etc

How stuff works is about the only credible source I believe and it has very little on his crazy invention like lasers etc

[Zeroth]

Thanks for the correction Dusk Eagle. Sorry about that, head went on the blink.

[ecookman]

lol I don't even have to look at the video or documentation about free energy to give this opinion.

In order to have "free energy" we have to live in a theoretical world where friction doesn't exist and all mechanical/ electricity production is 100% efficient.