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 Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!
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Reality Check




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:45 pm   Post subject: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

http://rapidshare.com/files/123220613/ICS4M_Final_Exam_Mock_Test.rtf.html

100 out of those 200 were chosen. It makes me sick and pissed off that standards are so low and furthermore there IS no standard for CS. Some schools have it, some don't. Some have good programs, some have bad ones. I really think there needs to be a set curriculum in the school system especially since CS is so big in our world today. It also sucks more than many will struggle with this (I think this should have been taught in gr. 9).
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Prabhakar Ragde




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:56 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

You'll get decent CS exams next year. I don't want to hear you complaining about how difficult they are...
Reality Check




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:09 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

I welcome the challenge Smile

Oh and I'm not really complaining about how easy it is. Who doesn't want an easy 100% right? I'm just mad at the schools system...
Tony




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:23 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

I wouldn't even call this Computer Science.

I think my favourite question on there is:
Quote:

Java was developed by:
a.
Microsoft.
b.
Apple.
c.
Sun Microsystems.
d.
W3C.
Latest from compsci.ca/blog: Tony's programming blog. DWITE - a programming contest.
syntax_error




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:48 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

thats a bit overly-multiple-choice-d no?
In my grade 10 class (ICS 3M7) we actually have to write code by hand, and its not simple declaring crap, its like full out CCC questions, and in your multiple choice section it was like on hardware, so semantics and how the CPU works with the cache and crap like that, then array rep in memory how its capped and ya the list goes on....
Reality Check




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:29 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

LOL yea I loved that question. The great thing is that this exam is on the computer! I remember in gr. 11 or 10 it was basic method declarations and operations. So it'd give us a numeric expression (sometimes Strings included) we'd have to figure out the output. Like this:

What is the output of:
c.println (4*3 + "tony who?");

Worst of all we STILL use console. Why the hell can't they teach us properly from the beginning? I asked my teacher this and his answer was: "Well the school pays for Ready and the Console is a resource provided to us by HSA so why not use it?"

You need to write a blog on this issue Tony since I'm sure my school is not the only school Mad
Tony




PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:08 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Well no, the school does not pay for RTP, seeing as how Holtsoft has shut down. Though I've made a note to consider this for an article.
Latest from compsci.ca/blog: Tony's programming blog. DWITE - a programming contest.
Reality Check




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:33 am   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

I guess he was just talking out of his ass then. He never did have a good reason for forcing us to use Ready or Console considering that we had Dr.Java loaded on the computers as well...
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Insectoid




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:26 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

I just had my exam, and it was easier than I thought it would be (and I though it would be REALLY easy). We were even allowed to bring in a 1 page cheat sheet. I didn't even use it. we had 50 or so multiple choice, some true/false and some paragraph. There was some 'find the errors in this program' questions and overall, it was very easy! I finished it in 1 hour and 1 minute (less, actually, because we didn't start right on the dot), so I had to wait for 29 minutes before I could leave. (They let us out 1 hour in and then every half hour after).

Pissed me off...
Clayton




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:45 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Bullshit wrote:

__F__ 31. The return type void means that the method will return a value.


If you want to get picky, that is a true statement. The method will return void.

More bullshit wrote:
__B__ 91. Which extension must be included with an HTML document file name?
a. .txt c. .exe
b. .htm d. .doc


e. None of the Above

Yep wrote:
____ 98. What effect does \n have when included in an output string?
a. Output is moved to the next line.
b. A \n is displayed in the output.
c. A tab (8 spaces) is displayed in the output.
d. A N is displayed in the output.


wtf? This is entirely dependent on the position of the newline character in the string Confused

Quote:

____ 101. Which outlines a solution using a mix of English and program code?
a. flow chart c. pseudocode
b. Java code d. source code


Ruby Laughing

Quote:
____ 126. Which keyword indicates a method will not return a value?
a. static c. public
b. void d. call
This question must be a toughie, it's asked 3 separate times.
Tony




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:13 pm   Post subject: RE:Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Oh, well if you want to be that picky...

Quote:
___F_ 5. Comments affect the execution of a program.

Comments could affect the execution of a program, if it takes its own source code as an input Wink

Quote:
__T__ 9. A variable must be declared before it is used.

Not necessary true for languages that are not Java. Actually there's a lot of questions that assume Java as the only language in existence. Though they inconstantly specify and omit that fact.

Quote:
___T_ 22. A set of statements that perform a task over and over again based on a condition is called a loop structure.

How about tail-end recursion?

Quote:
__T__ 25. The for statement executes a set of statements a fixed number of times.

code:
for(;;){}
Wink Or throw a rand and/or time into the conditional part of it.

Quote:
__T__ 34. The return statement is used to send a value back to the calling statement.

What Clayton has said. You can return out of void methods.

Quote:
__T__ 82. A file on disk is a set of characters, even if the file contains numeric data.

A file on disk is a set of binary values.

Quote:
__B__ 88. Which programming language is considered an object-oriented language?
a.
Fortran
c.
SQL
b.
Java
d.
C

As of the latest standard (Fortran 2003), Fortran supports OOP.

Quote:
__B__ 91. Which extension must be included with an HTML document file name?

File extensions are always optional.


... And that's just the first half Wink
Latest from compsci.ca/blog: Tony's programming blog. DWITE - a programming contest.
McKenzie




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:26 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

I feel your pain Reality Check, but it's important that anything that is done is focused on making things better not simply trying to expose and shame any programs or teachers. The thing is, the powers that be know the disparity that exists in quality of Computer Science programs and there are no easy fixes.

There are lots of reasons why CS is different than courses like math and history. I think the two biggest ones are that the field is constantly changing and it is fairly easy to find a good job with a CS degree. So good jobs draw away a lot of the best and the brightest and the ever-changing nature of CS makes it easy to fall behind as a CS teacher and no longer be able to deliver the most relevant material.

I don't want to suggest that the situation is hopeless so there is no point in even talking about it. I think the only way to affect change is to post positive examples of how the CS courses should look. Perhaps an in-depth blog about "CS done right" might be useful. In an ideal world I could simply post unit plans, assignments and sample tests on ECOO.org and I could direct teachers there and everything would be grand. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
Reality Check




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:16 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Yea you could get nit picky about a lot of things. I asked him a few of them but I'm sure he didn't know what I was talking about. And while I understand a void method does return void, I assume by 'value' he meant something other than void. I'm going with how he marks. I wouldn't want to rebel and find technicalities at the risk of dropping. But anyways, I finished the exam in 40 minutes...a 2 hour grade 12 exam in 40 minutes. I mean, I was happy I guess. My mark was returned to me right away and I got 100% as expected but it felt so hollow. It sucked that most of the class took the full two hours for this. At a grade 12 level they really should know more...

And while I agree CS changes so fast which could result in teacher being left behind, the concepts are still the same. And this is my argument. They need to stray away from teaching us things like syntax or anything like that and more towards the concepts and the fundamentals. Teach us some theory maybe, something that'll help us apply the skills. But really they are pretty much hard coding (lol) the course into our heads. Moving command by command and brick by brick. I don't need anyone telling me how to use this class, and what this class does, and what this command does. Nor do any of the other students. The only syntax that should be taught is basic, everything else can be learned through learning the concepts.

Let's put it this way, if I am properly taught the fundamentals of a class, and method declarations, and the difference between accessors and modifiers, what 'static' is, inheritance, I can go into the Java help and find myself a class that I can use. WITHOUT anyone teaching me. Because for the most part, once I know how to use one class, I can use them all. Furthermore, I can apply my skills to make my own class for what I need. The rest in my opinion is self taught using the fundamentals.

Like in Math, they teach us a general rule in a unit for example and it's my job to understand that rule and to know it perfectly. Using that rule, I can apply it to problems and use the rule to solve it. Each problem is different and my require different steps to solve but the fundamentals of the question is the same and uses that same rule I just learned. The teacher doesn't go out and teach us one by one the questions and how to approach each one. They teach on a general scale. Unfortunately in most CS high schools they take the "hard code" method of teaching.

wtd's intro is a perfect example. In my opinion his teaches it perfectly. He doesn't bother with teaching us things we can learn on our own. He teaches us the fundamentals in his intro and using the fundamentals we can solve other problems. Those problems might require me to go out and learn a new class but the fundamentals of the question would be the same. In my class everyday he'd literally be like: "okay guys this is an arraylist class and this is how to use it". "This is the JButton class and this is how to use it". "This is bla bla bla class and this is how to use it". WHY NOT teach me how to use classes in general and then I can go out and explore and find the classes myself!

It just makes me angry that CS doesn't get the same attention as some other courses. I think if they changed the name in high school from CS to Game Design more people would be interested which would result in more attention which would result in a better curriculum!
Reality Check




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:22 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Oh and LOL he threw in this one question that literally made me laugh out loud. In the T/F section:

Computer machine language instructions use 0s and 2s to represent the status of a switch.

That had me chuckling for a good 5 minutes. Oh and another one that had me laughing out loud from the T/F:

An infinite loop continues forever.
Tony




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:48 pm   Post subject: Re: Just to give you guys an idea how easy my gr. 12 exam is...standards need to be set!

Reality Check @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:22 pm wrote:
An infinite loop continues forever.

It's a test in the basics of Java and reading!
Latest from compsci.ca/blog: Tony's programming blog. DWITE - a programming contest.
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