What brings us to logic, math and computer science?

[wtd]

I suspect that these fields attract a certain type of individual more than others because logic (upon which the other two are based) cannot be influenced by force or power of any kind.

I was not popular as a kid. I was frequently verbally and physically abused by my peers. But no matter how much they shunned me or beat me, they could never make two plus two equal three.

Discuss!

[md]

I agree! Though I think that people who are bullied and are good at logic are further drawn to things like math or CS because they are areas where you can say to your peers "I'm better then you" and not have them say otherwise.

[wtd]

Well, not so much that you can say that you're "better," but that you can say, "I'm right."

Of course, if the other person continues to argue in the face of logic, then you can say that you're a "better" geek.

[wtd]

As a corollary to this, I believe that we tend to find more geeks in academia than in practical applications of math and computer science because the problems are smaller and more fundamental.

An academic can provide a proof that is only a few pages and prove to his or her peers that he or she is correct in making an assertion.

Now, let's think about a practical application. Perhaps aerospace. Whilst the academic deals with equations involving maybe four or five variables, the aerospace engineer deals with equations with hundreds of variables in designing a wing. Such engineers have been arguing over the optimal wing design for a hundred years.

[md]

I don't know if that's true. I think there are plenty of geeks out there doing real world engineering, or even things completely unrelated to math/CS (hence forth let's just "logic").

I think that perhaps there is a subset of geeks who are perhaps more interested in the math, and a subset who are more interested in the problems. Both are geeks, and I think there are actually more of the later then the former. The later just happen to be spread out all over the place and generally more able to blend in with the rest of society; the ones in academia tend to be rather awkward in social settings in my experience.

[wtd]

Granted, I am speaking in generalizations.

[BenLi]

Quote:

I was not popular as a kid. I was frequently verbally and physically abused by my peers. But no matter how much they shunned me or beat me, they could never make two plus two equal three.

Much like my own experience. Such people perhaps find refuge in intellectual centres where people have similar interests and intellegence. Computer science one such unifying activity. This creates a community of sorts where CS enthusiasts are accepted and not shunned or labelled. Perhaps this contributes to the success of a forum like this

[Clayton]

I also think that that kind of treatment helped me into the world of math and CS. For the longest time, I spent many hours just reading and studying about logic problems and such. Today, I love math and CS and hope to make a career of it. I see other kids who were the "cool" kids growing up, and all I see are kids that are going nowhere and doing drugs daily behind the school. I don't regret my decisions at all

[CodeMonkey2000]

Well I happen to be extremely popular and all the girls dig me ....in a way......but not really....

Well what draws me towards logic and CS is the simple fact that it's what I'm best at and that it is easy for me to think mathematically and logically.

[klopyrev]

Logic is both an inherent and developed ability. In some people, it is developed much more than in others. I grew up in a family full of computer related people. I've been programming since a very small age, since my mom was an informatics teacher. Thus, I have developed a rather strong logical sense. Many years later, I'm much older and my logic is very well developed, perhaps more than many other people. Almost everybody growing up develops a strong sense of something. Logic, art, sports, chatting on MSN for hours. After we do, we enjoy doing what we are able to do best. Being able to program or solve computer science, or math, problems brings a certain feeling of well-being. Getting the answer gives us all a warm feeling of self-admiration. If we were to start doing something else right now, we would not get that same feeling. Thus, we continue doing what we do best. Go up to a professional sports player and ask him why he plays sports. His initial response may be because it provides him with a lot of money, but money isn't what he started sports for. He was just good at it. Go up to any professional artist and pose the same question. You will get a less biased, but much the same answer.

KL

[Cervantes]

Interesting argument, wtd. I'd be inclined to agree, mostly because it's hard to disagree.

CodeMonkey2000 @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:14 pm wrote:

Well what draws me towards logic and CS is the simple fact that it's what I'm best at and that it is easy for me to think mathematically and logically.

Being drawn to a particular subject because that's what you're good at is a pretty bad reason for doing it. A much better reason is that you actually enjoy it. I'm not saying you don't, but you didn't say you did, so I thought I'd point it out.

Edit: KL seems to argue that if we do something well, we enjoy it. Again, I'd argue against this. It's often true, but not always. Being good at math, say, means you can solve more advanced problems faster. This provides a greater sense of satisfaction, provided you get any satisfaction out of math. If you don't care about it, you'll get no self-satisfaction out of solving problems regardless of how many tough problems you can solve.

[Clayton]

Cervantes brings up a good point. I can do (and have done) some amazing presentations in front of large audiences. This however does not mean that I enjoy doing it. The very opposite is in fact true, I hate doing public presentations. I get extremely nervous and most often screw something up. This just ends up making me dislike presentations and such even more, as opposed to gaining self-satisfaction.

[haskell]

Personally, I probably have very little in common with any of you.

I am more of an atheletic type(MVP Male Wrestling(twice), Male Athlete of the Year) at 6'1", 180 lbs, with a decently muscular body from ~3 years of working out regularly. I've never been bullied, and have a very wide area of friends(stoners, popular, geeks, "schitzos", etc...). Most people around(peers as well as older and younger people) know me when they see me.

However, I am also somewhat of an academic(Highest Academic Average, Honour Roll), and love english, science(Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Earth Science), and math.

I also live in a rural area. This gives be from 3:30 pm to 7:00 am from Monday-Friday with basically nothing to do. Which is where CS falls into my life, and most weekends I have something early morning to do, so that cuts off the regional house party/teen dance(both = "sickness"), giving me even more time to practice my craft, and to think. Since I am a very logical person, it leaves me thinking a lot of things logically through, and solviing questions I have, often with computations.

Anyways, the point I am getting at is that people who aren't "emotionally and physically scarred" can be a CS/logic person. I mean, I really don't take anything besides my friends and science seriously. Everything else is just filler till university. Although the "type" of person who I am isn't really that common, or better yet, commonly well known, it is kind of wierd when people find out who you actually are. Possibly why many don't come forward in real life, just over a virtual one.

[Cervantes]

haskell @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:33 pm wrote:

Personally, I probably have very little in common with any of you.

Funny. Your description sounds pretty damn close to me.

The point of wtd's post was not to say that people who aren't "emotionally and physically scarred" (your words) can't be CS/math majors, but rather his point was that people who were bullied or otherwise hurt are more likely to become CS/math majors.

[haskell]

I don't know... All the people where I live who are bullied and hurt are headed for Biology or Earth Science... Might be because of locality though, as Computer Science is so uncommon that I doubt any of them have even heard of it...

Generalizations appear to be generally incorrect. Perhaps a "Generalization Commitee" is in order? Just throwing it out there.

And Cerv~, perhaps the CS guy of the future is that of the minority of the minority... Seems that most CS guys who I do meet are anything but "emotionally and physically scarred". Which amounts to ~30 people. Or maybe I'm just lucky?