Waterloo University

[Dan]

Tution is going up by at least 5% next year, more likey in the 15% range. Thanks to our lovely goverment unfrezzing tution rates. I whould not whont to be a student at one of the few unis in ontraio that thinks they can carge more money b/c they have a rep in C.S.

[1of42]

Man, I've said this before, but damn Dan, you're like a walking Lakehead billboard.

I do take issue with your statement that no matter where in Ontario you go, the experience will be the same. That frankly sounds just a tad bit misinformed - plus, the added reputational benefits of a Waterloo diploma, whether the experience is way better or not, merits it being at the top of any list.

[Andy]

dan, every other yrt bus has a poster advertising for lhu... i wonder why?

[Martin]

One of Lakehead's problems is that nobody knows about it, so they're trying to get exposure.

Reputation is very important. Even if the education is the same, most employers will still go with the school with the better reputation. All other factors equal, the Waterloo student will get the job over the Lakehead student. Interviewers might not even take interviews with fresh Lakehead graduates simply because it's a risk.

That's not to say that Lakehead is a bad school, but rather that Waterloo has the advantage of having proven itself to be a good one.

[md]

@living expenses: tuition for CS is between $3600 and $4000 (perhaps a bit more). Residence is another $2000-$3000 a semster; and depending on where your living food on top of that. Books can be between $200, and $1000 a semester depending on courses, what you buy and if you buy. In all it works out to a lot of money.

[Martin]

http://www.findoutmore.uwaterloo.ca/financing/expenses.htm

[Dan]

1of42 wrote:

I do take issue with your statement that no matter where in Ontario you go, the experience will be the same. That frankly sounds just a tad bit misinformed - plus, the added reputational benefits of a Waterloo diploma, whether the experience is way better or not, merits it being at the top of any list.

What benefits of a waterloo diploma? This may be ture for gradute school but for undergrand no one realy cares about the where as much as the expircen. No invterviewer in there right mind whould higher some one based on what school they whent to rather then what excpricne they had.

Quote:

dan, every other yrt bus has a poster advertising for lhu... i wonder why?

And u of w runs adds here and in othere places.....i wonder why? In fact u of t aucatly sends poeleop to give lectors here to try to convie peoleop to go to there uni for grad school.

Quote:

One of Lakehead's problems is that nobody knows about it, so they're trying to get exposure.

And other then for the wifi thing they are doing a good job. We now have one of the most high tect lerarning phsictictys in north amraicak and the northern medical school. Making us one of only 2 unis in ontraio with a full medical school.

Quote:

Reputation is very important. Even if the education is the same, most employers will still go with the school with the better reputation. All other factors equal, the Waterloo student will get the job over the Lakehead student. Interviewers might not even take interviews with fresh Lakehead graduates simply because it's a risk.

Once again i think you are very wrong when it comes to undergrad. They are not going to take a pile of resumes and just throw out the lakehead ones. They are going to be looking for expricen and the ablity of the indviadual student.

A grat example of this is RIM. RIM is almost psycialy loaced on the u of w campus and has many dealings with u of w obvesly. So one whould think that such a place whould hire all u of w students for co-op, right? Wrong, almost every lakehead co-op student who applys with RIM (who atucalty has gr8 realtions with lakehead) gets a offer some where with in RIM.

Now why is this? Well in the most simple reasons it is b/c 1. lakehead dose not have a bad reputation with employers in reality and aucatly is know as "the futtuer of the north" and for it's qaulity over quanity. 2. employers that aucatly resrach unis will find that the qaulity of lakehead education is exteramly good due to low class sizes. Well there may be several 100 poeleop enroaled in the CS progam at waterloo, lakehead has about 20~10 per year. This however dose not mean that they do no hire good profs or have good labs. In fact we have some of the best labs thanks to sun microw systems and the ATAC bulding.

Also geting back to the topic of excprince witch matters inftenaly more times then where u whent for your undergrad. What will happen is the enmplyer will wead out thos with out real excperince and give interviews to thous that do. Now what will decied who gets the job is aucatly the invterview not the uni. It will be how you come off during this invetview witch will set you aprt form the rest not what uni you whent to.

Quote:

That's not to say that Lakehead is a bad school, but rather that Waterloo has the advantage of having proven itself to be a good one.

I whould say that you are right in u of w using it's rep, hostly i think if it did not have it they would be in a lot of truoble. I think they are slowly lossing quality every year as they try to deal with increasing class and student numbers well keeping there costs down. And one thing about puting all this value in the rep of your school is that it will chage. Lakeheads invesnt ment in new progames, buldings and even campus will likey get its repuation up and u never know what can happen.

Hostly i tihnk that it will be 1000s of times more import to pick a uni based on the qaulity of living there and the everment then the repuation. If you think there repuation is going to get you job over real life excperince you are sadly mistaken.[/quote]

[Dan]

Sorry for the double post but this is a difrent rant:

In case any one did not know tution frezzes stop today. That maeans uni can now prity much charge what they whont. Witch sucks for all students.

To given some numbers to this rummers are that U of W's tution (not books or rez) for compsci will jump to $10,000/year. And some more spesilzed progames will jump even higer.

It's a shame u of w dose not have a real/functional student union to fight that.....

[bugzpodder]

lol Dan you are wrong. A CS single term at waterloo was 3.2k. The tuition increase is only about 5% for undergrads (you cannot increase tuition beyond 8%, and thats only for specialized program like medicine, law, etc). So tuition now comes to about 3400 per term. Thats still much less than my scholarships

oh btw, textbooks are optional, so it seems. Even if they claim to be madatory. They are rarely used in class. Besides you can just sell it off after you are done, so text books shouldnt even be considered into tuition costs.

[Dan]

Acuatly it is 5% per year not just a one time 5%. And graduate and professional can go up by 8% a year. To my understand it is u of w's plan to get it to 10,000 per year threw increases per year.

Also regualr compsci at u of w is realy $4307.03 when u aucatly add in the corse fees that should be incuded in the tutiton. And co-op is $4778.85.

5% is $240 per year for co-op. And that is compound. So if we assume the progame is 4 years long the last years tution will be in the $5500 to $6000 range. Now this may not effect the peoleop all ready in the progame as much as ones starting but do u know what it will do to grad school? graduate is going up by 8% per year. By the time some one that is starting now gets there they are going to be seeing masive fees.

Edit Just a note, thess last 2 posts are sposted to be more of an anit-tution increases rant then a anti-u of w one so do not take it that way (like some are). This problem is for all uni studtnes in ontraio.

Right now on avg we pay $10,000 per year incuding everything, food, housing, cable, tution, net contection, books and so on. In a few years of this increas we will be seeing costs jump and hostly i do not whont to see that no matter how much it is. I know there are alot of constive peoleop on this site that blive that most peoleop do not seem to desiver education if they are not ritch or have schoalrships, but i think difrent and i blive that education should be open and accessable to any one.

[bugzpodder]

we pay at most 1000 to 2000 extra till we graduate than if the tuition freeze didnt stop. This isnt much by all means.

[cool dude]

bugzpodder wrote:

we pay at most 1000 to 2000 extra till we graduate than if the tuition freeze didnt stop. This isnt much by all means.

it actually is a lot b/c by the time u will be graduating u will prolly be in big debt.

anyways umm i hear that i shouldn't go into software engineering but i don't really understand why. Haker Dan said to go into CompSci, i like it but i also like engineering so can someone explain to me the kinda things and jobs u will be doing and why not go into software engineering?

[Andy]

no he wont.. he's on a crazy scholarship, and is going to be working for MS

[Dan]

In my option you should ether go in to engering or compsci. Here is u of w's deftion of them:

Quote:

Software engineering deals with building and maintaining software systems, with a focus on the activities and issues that arise in developing a software product. Software engineering is one of many disciplines in the field of computing.

I have talked to software engeriners that don't even know what they do. From my understanding they are suposted to be the link betwen the consumer and the progamers (or so some of them have toald me) tho that makes me think they do nothing.

More from u of w:

Quote:

Software engineering applies both computer science and engineering philosophy, principles, and practices to the design and development of software systems. It is a disciplined approach to software development that includes negotiating and documenting the software's requirements, following fundamental design principles, analyzing design alternatives, and evaluating whether the final product meets its requirements. Such evaluation not only checks that a product functions correctly, but also determines that it is safe, reliable, maintainable, and economical to produce and to operate.
A software engineer's work is not entirely technical. Software engineering projects tend to involve large numbers of people. So software engineers must be able to work well in teams. They may also have to interact with specialists from other disciplines, who may have varied levels of software expertise. This work calls for strong communication, business, and reasoning skills.

Why i say not to go in to this is that althougth software engeriners are jumping up and down to state that they apreantly get more money on average (witch is not ture if u look at the data corectly) the depmand for them is not as big as some places whould have you blive. Also i think that software enginer prity much = progaming corses at colleage + some engering. As another quoate form u of w tells us they are more applyed.

Quote:

# Computer Engineering (CE) deals with designing, developing, and operating computer systems. At its core, Computer Engineering concentrates on digital hardware devices and computers, and the software that controls them. Advanced courses focus on standard designs and techniques for specific application domains. In contrast to CS and SE, Computer Engineering emphasizes solving problems in digital hardware and at the hardware-software interface.
# Computer Science (CS) focuses on understanding, designing, and developing programs and computers. At its core, Computer Science concentrates on data, data transformation, and algorithms. Advanced courses present specialized programming techniques and specific application domains. The CS program is less structured than the CE and SE programs, giving students more flexibility to build depth or breadth in a variety of application domains or in the fundamentals of Computer Science.
# Software Engineering (SE) deals with building and maintaining software systems. It is more software-oriented and has a greater emphasis on large software applications than Computer Engineering. It is more applied than Computer Science, placing greater emphasis on the entire software development process, from idea to final product. It is also more disciplined than Computer Science, applying more systematic practices to help ensure that products are reliable and safe.

As i see it CompSci will get you anywhere you whont to go progaming wise, be it making games, making applications, os, reseraching, ect. But Software engering will tie you down more to the application side.

P.S. of corse i am bisest, i am in CompSci and CompSci students histrocaly have a reivarly agisted Software Engering ones.

[cool dude]

thanks for the explanation hacker dan. your very persuading for me to go into compsci and i think u might have changed my mind or just confused me a bit more lol. anyhow does anyone know if residence at waterloo is fully equipped i.e. bed, table, refrigiator?