High court upholds Oregon assisted-suicide law

[wtd]

rizzix wrote:

Hacker Dan wrote:

And then there is that one where it is like "paul marting uses private health care do not vote for him. Vote conerstive we will make every one use private health care "

Yea all those adds are soo damn lame... They need a life.. Other than politics..

Either way the point of that ad was not to condemn "private health care", but to comment about Paul Martin's I-say-one-thing-but-I-do-the-opposite behavior.

Say one thing and do another... like running attack ads that condemn attack ads?

[Dan]

Andy wrote:

Hacker Dan wrote:

Maybe try watching a debate?

i watched the debate both in english and in french, and all jack layton did was trying to prove to the audience that paul martin is a lying sob, and steven harper is too friendly with the right winged activists in the states.

Hacker Dan wrote:

Well the debate was deftaly stupid due mostly to the questions they asked, tho i was not just refuring to the federal debate but to local ones as well. Also i think peoleops baises chage how they saw the debate. Hostly as i saw it all the partys where just bashing each other. I do love how the consertives run 1000s of atact adds, far more then any other party and then run an add saying how bad the librals are for runing atack adds. And then there is that one where it is like "paul marting uses private health care do not vote for him. Vote conerstive we will make every one use private health care Wink"

........

[rizzix]

wtd wrote:

Say one thing and do another... like running attack ads that condemn attack ads?

I don't recall either one of them condemning attack ads. But I do recall them frequently claiming that the opposing party's attack ads are factually wrong. *shrugs*

But the NDP did openly condemn the attack ads as stupid (good move) but they created ONE themselves. So far just one, their new-er ads are pretty good though. (well at least in comparison to their opposition).

[wtd]

Out here I've seen several ads run by the Conservatives that attack the Liberals for running attack ads.

[chrispminis]

Well, I'm not old enough to vote yet, but IMO none of the parties is very good. Theres a lot of mudslinging mostly in the Liberal direction, and Conservatives have by far the most attack ads, at least in the GTA. Some of them are pretty good, but some are hypocritcal, i especially like the conservative motto of "Stand up for Canada, stand up for change". Change? Aren't they conservative? I know I'm taking the party name too seriously, but i think thats pretty funny. The problem I have is... where di Stephen Harper come from? The danger of voting conservative is that he doesn't have a record at all? We don't really know what he's like, how hes acted in the past. Meanwhile Paul Martin has been financial minister, and a whole bunch of political positions, and we know how capable he is. He is partially (at least) reponsible for the sponsorship dealy, but through his budgeting while minister of Finance, we have had surpluses, which is pretty good. So while Paul Martin may not have the greatest record, he actually has one. BTW Like i said before I don't really like any of the parties much (At our school mock election i made another box and voted for cookie monster because i couldnt choose, and didnt really care since it was a mock) so even tho it might seem im leaning towards liberals.

P.S. I doubt we'll ever get back on topic of euthanasia

P.P.S I doubt I'll improve my grammar much, or stop using post scripts

P.P.P.S lol mariowan? THATS SO SEXY lol that has to be the best Dan-speak word ever! mariowan = marijuana plus i got another post script in

[1of42]

Wow, this forum is so far off to the left that my peripheral vsision is having trouble picking it out.

I'm voting Conservative - partially because I think that the Liberals need some time out of government to get a grip on themselves. The party is so hubristic it's ridiculous.

I support private health care. I don't think it should completely replace public health care - but I fail to understand the stupid Canadian trait that is vehemently opposing any suggestion of privatization. Harper says he opposes it, which is bull, since he'll obviously try to introduce it. Martin says he opposes it, while using it, and the other parties are insignificant enough not to matter, although in their cases at least the opposition might be genuine. This terrible tendency for everyone to act like private healthcare is the antichrist stifles debate on a legitimately vital issue - and all the parties are bad about it.

As Canadians we sit here going "private healthcare - NEVER!", while ignoring the fact that it exists, it runs in Canada, and even if it's not in Canada, there's the big convenient private healthcare source called the United States of America conveniently located close to us. It's akin to the ostrich burying its head in the sand to avoid its predators (if it even is an ostrich... I forget ). Like wtd said, as long as public healthcare is maintained, private can do no harm. It will motivate people who have the means to get better care - but you know what? I don't oppose that. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the market system. Those with greatest willingness and ability to pay get the goods. It's what our country is basically founded on.

Anyways, I find one thing entertaining about this campaign: last one, Harper spent most of his time fending off offensives by Martin over stupid comments by him and his party, and trying to keep his radical element in line. Guess who has that problem now? (hint, read the front page Globe article about Hargrove and Martin trying to cover his ass after Hargrove's remarks about Harper)

[rizzix]

Yea Liberals are foolish They all are.. We just have to choose the least insane party.. geez what a choice..

[Martin]

The problem with privatized health care isn't something that would effect us. Actually, it would probably be better for us - it would be a shorter wait to see a doctor.

The problem is that all of a sudden the under classes can't afford heath care, just like in the states. Yeah, it's great for middle and upper class people but it just cuts the legs out from under a whole bunch of people. The harm that a dual system would result in would be the public system being left with fewer and worse doctors than the private system, so the poor people are left with second rate health care.

[Dan]

To 1of42: So peoleop with more moeny are intiled to better health and education then peoleop who where born in to less wealthy familys?

Hostly i do not see how that could posbliy ture. Shure things like pasltick surgury and such things should not be covered but eveyrthing eltes should be proived free in my option. Now you may ask where we whould get the money for this, but the awser is simple, tax. Our tax system right now is very messed up. It seems to be taxing the midleclass the most rather then the peoleop with the money. I think that if we adugsted taxs to tax peoleop who aucatly have the moeny we whould not have problems money wise.

Also i think that education, right threw jk to grad school should be almost completly free. We are just making it so the ritch get ritcher by stoping the poor from geting higher education. I have know many bright peoleop who just stoped affter high school becacoes they could never efored unverisity.

[Andy]

i dunno dan.. if u took out osap and worked during summer/got some scholarships, or went to waterloo for co op, you'd have enuff money to make ends meet

[Martin]

Grad school is better than free dan At least in technical fields.

[codemage]

Quote:

The Conservatives in Canada are very much modelled after their counterparts in the U.S.

Yes, but not as much as the other parties would have you believe. I'm getting sick of hearing the phrase "hidden agenda" for the past 15 years, as if the conservatives would have us all raped by satanic goats or something.

Health care is over-funded. I know a bunch of nurses, and they're all of the same opinion. Our local hospitals have huge administrative teams that sit in meetings all day long, and get paid seven-digit salaries. To compensate, they refuse to hire full-term nursing staff or subsidize quality doctors.

Quote:

I realy whont to see proptoal repseration in this country becuase the system is set up so smaller partys do not even have a chance.

Heck - I'd like to throw out the party system entirely. Backbenchers are a complete waste of time & public money. It'd be cool to have a council system (like municipal elections) where the people with the top votes overall in the country form the cabinet.

Quote:

So while Paul Martin may not have the greatest record, he actually has one.

That's a brutal fallacy. Let's vote for the guy that we know sucks and that gave $300M of our money to his buddies - because there's a remote chance that we might vote for someone who is worse. I'd rather not vote for the devil we know in hopes that some other guy isn't the devil.

Quote:

So peoleop with more moeny are intiled to better health and education then peoleop who where born in to less wealthy familys?

Heck yes. We live in a capitalist society. People with more money can buy a better education, bigger houses, better clothing, faster cars, etc. etc. That's the benefits of having money - and that can't be taken away. The public needs only supply a certain level of health / education.

[wtd]

Except that the Conservative Party is a known entity. It has, in fact, governed Canada in the past, and from what I've heard, the economic policies under that reign were devastating.

[Boo-chan]

To move this thread back onto topic:

First, the ruling actually wasn't as strong as it first appeared. All the court did was to decide that the government was inappropriately using a law meant to curtail illegal drug use to define what drugs doctors could give their patients. The government had taken the postition that since using drugs to perform euthanasia isn't a legitamate medical use it was tatamount to drug pushing... a rather bizarre stretch of the imagination. article

A recent study in the UK found that 1/3 of all deaths were hastened by the use of painkillers. So if you don't support euthanasia then would that rule out the use of painkillers that would end up shortening the patient's life?

[Dan]

Andy wrote:

i dunno dan.. if u took out osap and worked during summer/got some scholarships, or went to waterloo for co op, you'd have enuff money to make ends meet

1st not all peoleop are going in to co-op progames and you do have to pay back osap. also scholarships are great and all but very rarely can cover anything that singficat. Tution alone is about $5,000 to $7,000 a year. If you add in costs like books (witch for me this year was almost $1,500) and other suplies you need like a computer and the cost of living and aucatly eating it gets way up there. Some peoleop simpley do not have this moeny and dispite what codemage says i blive they do have a right at a chance to get a unversit education.

To martin: not all peoleop are in fileds that have gr8 co-op paying oprtionits

To codemage: franlky i find it discusting that you think you dersver better health then some one eltes since you have money. It is not like most peoleop just choice to be poor, ushely it is due to the condictions they are born in to. If you can not effored education, you can not get a good job, if you can not get a good job you can not effored education for your self or your childern or if we go to more privatiesed health care, you whould not be able to efored health care for them ether. And the way this system whould work is the lower class whould never be able to become midleclass unless for some odd cresimamtses. This is verging on savlerly in my option.

It used to be that black peoleop could not go to the same schools, hositals ect as whites. How whould this system be any difrent form this forum of perdguimsime only that it is based on moeny not color?

Poleop in the lower class in the U.S. die since they can not efored the surgires and medications they need. I am prowed that in canada that i can go in to a hositap with a borken arm and not have to pay anything, i am prowed that my controly gives free vacnations, i do not whont to see such things only becomde for the wealthly.

I adimit the health care system maybe mismanged but i think this is a magment issues not a funding one. If wait times are to long hire more doctors and nuries, if hopsitals are not being run effishantly start firing peoleop. Money should not be an issues when it comes to health and education.

Hostly i think that it whould be good if we taxed the higher classes so much they become the midel class, i know this is close to communsim but i see nothin wrong with communism. I think that we should look affter one another and stop hording money away.