NetBeans info.

[wtd]

Cinjection wrote:

wtd wrote:

You're asking me to pick just one?

I honestly don't know that I can.

awww come on, "amuse me."

No, seriously, there are lots of languages I love using. Ruby, O'Caml, Haskell, Eiffel, Ada, and others that probably slip my mind at this hour. There are lots of features I like in these languages. A high degree of dynamic design, static typing without casts or automatic type promotion, type inferencing, incredibly powerful generics, multiple inheritance, design by contract, type classes, fast native compilation, selective access, uniform access, etc.

The thing is, I can't get all of that in a single place, so no, I really can't pick a favorite.

[Hikaru79]

1of42 wrote:

Onthe other hand, the IDE is nicely lightweight, easy to use, easy to compile/run with (no convoluted menus), and has that nice auto-indent feature...

If you like the light-weightness of RTP, but don't want to be tied down to the JDK that they have built in, give SciTE a try. As long as you have a JDK properly installed on your system, it is basically just a nice text editor with programming features like code folding and syntax coloring for a variety of languages, but without any extras. Compiling and executing is just a matter of SciTE linking to the command-line version of these tools. The best of both worlds! ^_^

And, best of all, it supports a very large variety of very different languages, and its available for several platforms as well.

[Naveg]

I used to think I wanted to use an IDE, then wtd convinced me that it wasn't worth it, and boy am I grateful. Currently I use the Cream configuration for Vim which gives me syntax highlighting and auto-indentation. Then I spend two seconds at the command line compiling. Much easier than an IDE in my opinion.

[wtd]

Vladimir wrote:

I used to think I wanted to use an IDE, then wtd convinced me that it wasn't worth it, and boy am I grateful.

Nifty, that's certainly a better outcome than you being out for my blood.

[Naveg]

Hikaru79 wrote:

1of42 wrote:

Onthe other hand, the IDE is nicely lightweight, easy to use, easy to compile/run with (no convoluted menus), and has that nice auto-indent feature...

If you like the light-weightness of RTP, but don't want to be tied down to the JDK that they have built in, give SciTE a try. As long as you have a JDK properly installed on your system, it is basically just a nice text editor with programming features like code folding and syntax coloring for a variety of languages, but without any extras. Compiling and executing is just a matter of SciTE linking to the command-line version of these tools. The best of both worlds! ^_^

And, best of all, it supports a very large variety of very different languages, and its available for several platforms as well.

just gave SciTE a try, and it looks quite good. Could you give me a hand with the config files though? What I want is line numbers, monospaced font, and larger window at startup.

[Spartan_117]

I think the easiest one is Ready to Program, by holt software.. It indents, checks for errors, colour codes the syntax, and of course compiles. Its also real easy to use unlike some IDEs where u need to learn a lot before even learning the language. Problem is it cost money, which seems pretty odd for such a lightweight program.

[[Gandalf]]

And, if I have been following Java correctly, it's HoltSoft Java which usually uses different libraries than the normal Java which most people learn. It's supposed to be more "Turing" friendly or something like that. That, and its a rip off since you can get any good compiler/editor and/or IDE for free.

[1of42]

[Gandalf] wrote:

And, if I have been following Java correctly, it's HoltSoft Java which usually uses different libraries than the normal Java which most people learn. It's supposed to be more "Turing" friendly or something like that. That, and its a rip off since you can get any good compiler/editor and/or IDE for free.

It uses the IBM Jike copmiler for starters, so may not be completely up to date. It has built-in Turing-like libraries, but those are unnecessary, and detrimental to use.

[Spartan_117]

Definitely true that its a ripoff.. i got it for free from school tho

[Aziz]

About RTP . . . if you like the indenting, the colour, etc, a good IDE is JCreator, it's what I use, and I love it, it's small (not like NetBeans) and you can customize it (use any JDK you want). Now can someone explain to me why using an IDE is so wrong?

[Hikaru79]

Aziz wrote:

Now can someone explain to me why using an IDE is so wrong?

It's not wrong, it's only a problem when:
a) You start using it as a crutch, not realizing what is an IDE-specific function and what is part of the language
b) You do not pick up on skills like making a build script because the IDE does it for you.
c) You use an IDE and it just slows you down because 99% of its features are enterprise-oriented and you're not using anything in it that a text-editor with some eye candy wouldn't provide.

There are cases where it is A Good Thing, however. For example, if you're designing a database-driven application, having an IDE there, which allows for some direct manipulation of the DB in the same program, then it can be quite useful.

[rizzix]

Databases manipulation is not the only good thing about these IDEs. Most IDEs provide for code refactoring (exclusive of JCreator i believe). This - as you will eventually realise - is one feature, you can't live without, specially when you reach the point of redesigning your program; perhaps because you reach that period in time where your program has grown too big, but to further continue work, a redesign is necessary! I know this happens to me quite often. Other good things these IDEs provide is for template-driven-coding which helps to reduce the number lines of code you actually type your self. They also help reduce coding in general, by at the least writing out the skeleton code for you - this is of perticular use when implementing methods from super classes or interfaces. Other cool things IDE's provide for is code reflection - i.e they check the validity of the code you write (your calls to various methods etc) by looking into the core or bytecode of those various classes and validating your code against whats defined within them. They also help make the whole precess of incode documentation more effective and easier.

Some very cool things that some IDEs can do (this includes Eclipse, given that you've installed the respective plugin) is UML modeling of your code. This is a nifty feature and is best used when you are comfortable with designing before coding.

A very useful feature of Eclipse is the way it handles running Test Cases. Of course you dont need an IDE for that, but it does make the whole process a lot easier and a lot more efficient - i.e less time consuming - and effective in general.

IDEs are great! But only once you actually get into proper development. If you are here to learn the language, I suggest against using them. They come in the way of the learning process and usually result in confusion or missunderstandings.

[wtd]

The problem with IDEs is when you spend a week struggling to compile "Hello world" because of some subtle setting nested three dialogs deep.

Students who never get started programming will never make progress.

[1of42]

wtd wrote:

The problem with IDEs is when you spend a week struggling to compile "Hello world" because of some subtle setting nested three dialogs deep.

Students who never get started programming will never make progress.

*cough*overexaggeration*cough*

The last time I saw someone get seriously impaired by using an IDE was about... never.

maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong ppl...?

[[Gandalf]]

When I got Visual Studio? 6 I think, I had some VB code (this was a long while ago) and I had no clue how to enter it. I spent around an hour before giving up and doing nothing. That stopped me from learning VB before going into Turing. I'm pretty sure it was just some certain template or somethign that you needed for it to work.

There's your example.