Computer Science Canada Computer knowledge!! |
| Author: | Superskull85 [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Computer knowledge!! |
I don't know if anyone here will be able to answer my question but, by the end of grade ten what should a Computer Science student know about computers and programming languages? Like what kind of keywords, commands, operators etc. By the end of that year would should a student have a good grasp about computers? I'm in the Simcoe County District School Board. I'm just curious because it seems that in my class we're moving at a pretty slow pace. |
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| Author: | ericfourfour [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
I think you should know about computers before you select a computer science course for your course selections. 
I believe it is up to the school board to decide what you should know by the end of the semester. It is up to you to decide what you want to know by the end of the semester. |
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| Author: | PaulButler [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
Keep in mind that anything you can learn in school you can find online. So if they are moving too slow for you, it doesn't hurt to google things you want to learn about. As for what you should know, my understanding is that universities want you to be good at math but don't expect you to know how to code much. But it never hurts to know more than that. |
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| Author: | Superskull85 [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
Yeah I know I can look up stuff on the Internet, and I have...a lot of times, but I was just curious. I have gone WAY beyond what I learn in my classes. I was able to learn some of Java, learn LUA, and learn many new things about Turing. I was just curious as I have already gone through an introductory course and through half of my 11th grade class I have been learning the same material I learned in grade ten. |
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| Author: | cool dude [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Computer knowledge!! |
that is usually how schools run. personally i learned a lot from the people on this forum and through online resources. the most i probably learned was when i did computer competitions online. the reason is they might require a skill that you might not know yet and then you learn it. so it kinda forces you to learn it. |
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| Author: | klopyrev [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Computer knowledge!! |
Quote: the reason is they might require a skill that you might not know yet and then you learn it. so it kinda forces you to learn it.
Better word would be an algorithm?  At least that's what it's like for me. Competitions keep forcing me to learn new algorithms. |
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| Author: | Bobrobyn [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
What I think would be great to learn is how to actually open up a computer and know what's inside it, so if you had to plug a video card in, you could...or if you wanted to replace the harddrive, RAM, or something else, you could. That's something that many compsci students, in university, don't even know about The insides of a computer can scare some compsci people, hehe.
As for compsci stuff? Well, anything you want, really. The highschool classes are more of an introduction...and easy credit...to compsci. If you want to learn more, go ahead. Not? Well, that's okay too. You can always take another compsci course. Just know that unless you have a great compsci program at your school, it's probably going to be pretty slow, sadly. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
You have to look at it objectively. Computer Science isn't really as wide spread to people as other sciences(Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and even Earth Science). As a consequence, not many people enroll in it. The people who do enroll are looking for an easy credit(possibly technology credit, if it is a requirement to graduate). Now, not everyone is born with the gifts of a sharp learning ability, a logical mind, or great clerical perception. These three characteristics are the three pillars, you can learn the language, figure out the problem, and spot the errors in code. If you don't have these, Computer Science will be very bad to you, and you will likely struggle. If the course is made harder for the upper 10% of a class, the course will become even less popular. Resulting in it not being offered at all due to lack of interest. Then the question gets posed, is it better to have a slow paced Computer Science class, or no Computer Science class at all? With these slower classes, it may drag people in, and in time, the courses might become popular enough to offer an advanced course or similar for higher graded students. |
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| Author: | Bobrobyn [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Computer knowledge!! |
haskell @ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:30 pm wrote: You have to look at it objectively. Computer Science isn't really as wide spread to people as other sciences(Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and even Earth Science). As a consequence, not many people enroll in it. The people who do enroll are looking for an easy credit(possibly technology credit, if it is a requirement to graduate). Now, not everyone is born with the gifts of a sharp learning ability, a logical mind, or great clerical perception. These three characteristics are the three pillars, you can learn the language, figure out the problem, and spot the errors in code. If you don't have these, Computer Science will be very bad to you, and you will likely struggle. If the course is made harder for the upper 10% of a class, the course will become even less popular. Resulting in it not being offered at all due to lack of interest.
Then the question gets posed, is it better to have a slow paced Computer Science class, or no Computer Science class at all? With these slower classes, it may drag people in, and in time, the courses might become popular enough to offer an advanced course or similar for higher graded students. That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess I'd agree that a slow compsci class is better than none. Especially since it introduces students to computer science that probably wouldn't have thought about it before (like I was, as an example). The only problem I can see is students thinking it's "too easy" and not wanting to continue, or students might get the impression that computer science really is "that easy" and want to continue on in it. I guess the best way to go is for teachers to use the class to motivate students to learn outside of class, or even allow advanced students to work ahead. My brother is taking the grade 11 computer science course, and they're just getting to for-loops in Java about now. Four months into the semester. That's crazy slow. Edit: I just noticed: My post count is currently the answer to life, the universe, and everything.  |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
who says computer science is less popular than math and physics? considering we are in the middle of the IT revolution, it is definitely one of the most popular majors in most schools, definitely more than math and physics. (its comparable to engineering/business) |
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| Author: | haskell [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
I'm talking high school, which is the context of this discussion. Although Computer Science as a major is on a decline. Its statistics and its not really debatable. Most people are aware of Physics and Mathematics, and have exposure to them in some degree. However, that can't be said about Computer Science. Sure, they are exposed to it, but they don't know it, nor really care. So, when offered a course in it, they are less likely to choose it than something they have some familiarity with. |
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| Author: | Superskull85 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
I haven't actually been to any other school that offers computer science so I guess what I'm asking about wouldn't apply to every school. I have noticed, however, that there have been a decrease of students in my class from grade 10 to 11 (about 30 students in grade 10 and the following year only about 12 students). I kind of wish that my class would move faster, but what I have read above makes a lot of sense. I wish that by the time I graduate that I would know a good amount of two languages. At my school students don't even start to learn Java until grade twelve. I guess I kind of thought that because other courses that I take are really full and the teachers struggle to cover everything, I thought the computer science courses would do the same. |
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| Author: | Geostigma [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Computer knowledge!! |
Superskull85 @ Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:11 pm wrote: I don't know if anyone here will be able to answer my question but, by the end of grade ten what should a Computer Science student know about computers and programming languages? Like what kind of keywords, commands, operators etc. By the end of that year would should a student have a good grasp about computers?
I'm in the Simcoe County District School Board. I'm just curious because it seems that in my class we're moving at a pretty slow pace. No they shouldn't unless a grade 10 course for computer science was offered before hand. I knew about programming and simple scripting because of the amount of 3d work I do and the scripts I write to compile models. I'm in grade 11 and I with out a doubt walked into that class knowing nothing about programming. However knowing about computers is a broad topic. What kind of knowledge are you talking about? There is knowing how to navigate your computer, fix it, find problems and know how to optimize how it runs. Language is something that I guarantee that no one can fully grasp in one semester with out additional research and help such as using these forums. |
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| Author: | Superskull85 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
Well my school does offer a grade 10 course, but at the beginning of the grade 11 course we learned (re-learning) pretty much the same material as the grade 10 class. In grade 10 we mostly focused on Turing, how programming languages work, some history on computers and it's languages, and we also briefly studied hardware. So I guess I mean how much could/should a student know about within the above topics. What I was really looking for was what grade 11 students should know at the end of their grade 11 computer science course? But I see now that it would depend on the school itself. For a more specific school, I go to Twin Lakes SS in Orillia, Ontario, if that helps. |
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| Author: | Clayton [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
Here you can find a somewhat relevant article to this subject by moi. |
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| Author: | Geostigma [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
You would pimp your own article I'm in Barrie so things aren't much different. Do what I'm doing and learn things on your own. |
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| Author: | iluvchairs112 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
at my school, there's hardly anyone interested in computer science. I'm in the gr 11 course and the gr 10 and gr 12 courses are at the same time with the same teacher - and we learn the same thing. there is only one person taking the gr 12 course. I agree with haskell - better a slow comp sci class than none at all. although it gets really boring - we're still learning the basics with Java and have been since the semester started. what we've learned so far, I'm pretty sure I could've taught it to myself in just a couple of hours. but at least it's an introduction, it lets students know if that's what they are somewhat interested in. although there is one person in my class and she keeps telling me that she's only there cuz she needs another credit to graduate. i'm pretty sure there are a few others like that too, unfortunately |
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| Author: | haskell [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Computer knowledge!! |
The thing about programming is that IT IS BASIC. Those very simple principals get used in creative fashions to create. If you think about it, the only thing to programming beyond the basics are libraries. I seriously doubt that they will teach you about every class and method and variable and etc... in the entire standard library in any language, especially a language like Java. However, the principals of programming are often accompanied by computer science theory and software engineering principals, which make it much more complex. Perhaps these courses should focus on some light computer science theory and software engineering, instead of programming. Sure, programming can help supplement the content, but Computer Science is hardly about programming. If you understand why it is a lot easier to see how. This is very unrealistic however. Computer Science is meant to be a "filler" course. Its not supposed to be in-depth and comprehensive. If it was, as I already said, it'd be dropped and there wouldn't be any course at all. As iluvchairs112 said, there are people there just for a credit to graduate, aka: slot filler. As an example, in Newfoundland, we have two "comprehensive" courses, Chemistry3202 and Earth Systems3209. They are taken as level 3 courses(Grade 12) and are worth 2 credits. Chemistry3202 is the hardest course in the system, and Earth Systems3209 is a University-level course, actually, Earth Science1001 at Memorial University of Newfoundland. The reason why they exist is because they are popular. This level of difficulty is only attainable if the course is popular. Our one Computer Science course, Intergrated Systems1209, isn't offered to the majority of students in the province. The course is basically writing basic client-server algorithms in Visual Basic for a year(I didn't take the course, it isn't offered). Most people don't even know it exists. Which is wierd. You'd think we'd have a decent CS course from the descriptions of our top-tier chemistry and earth science courses. But no, its not even offered. |
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