Computer Science Canada :: View topic - I Need Game Makers

Computer Science Canada

I Need Game Makers

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	I Need Game Makers
Anyways I entered this contest for game making, but it wasn't it pure code you had to use RPG Maker Xp ,A really great tool for Great 2D single player and multiplayer RPG's !!! ANyways back to the title I need to recruit some help with people who are interested. If you would like to help just put a message here. I will post some screenshots form the game so far and some form the editor. Anyways I need people who can make character sets with ripping them. I need osmeone who can learn an offshoot of Ruby called RGSS, I need some to make or find ambeiant sounds and music (themes,battles and such). Now without further redo.. ScreenShots

Author:	Tony [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:
well Chris... I suspect you need to rethink your web hosting alternatives

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:
Sry bout that i clicked submit instead of preview on time before I posted picture they are there now.

Author:	Martin [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Pretty cool looking.

Author:	Dan [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:36 am ]
Post subject:
Personaly i am very agisted anyhing RPG maker based on this site b/c it is not coding it is just clicking a mouse buttion for the most part and making scripts that are not true progaming. (Unless of corse you make your own dll files for it but even then u are still using alot of other peoleops code). If it was me making an RPG i whould rather make my own RPG maker system and then make the RPG (in fact i have done just that for turing and java for compsci class projects....). Just my option about it tho.......

Author:	jamonathin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:12 am ]
Post subject:
Hacker Dan wrote: Personaly i am very agisted anyhing RPG maker based on this site b/c it is not coding it is just clicking a mouse buttion for the most part and making scripts that are not true progaming. (Unless of corse you make your own dll files for it but even then u are still using alot of other peoleops code). If it was me making an RPG i whould rather make my own RPG maker system and then make the RPG (in fact i have done just that for turing and java for compsci class projects....). Just my option about it tho....... I Totally agree because I used to be one of those guys on StarCraft who would make those Use Map Settings maps, and once I got into actual programming, I realized it's just for a bunch of noobs that cannot program stuff themselves. If you're looking for sounds or whatever, juss download Bearshare, and search under the .wav section, or any program like that. But yeah, if this was for like turing or something where you can actually program the commands, or actually program, rather than picking one out from a list, then I'd be in, but I'm done with that stuff.

Author:	Mazer [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:08 am ]
Post subject:
My main problem with these RPG makers is that they pretty much stifle any creativity. Before I get into some rants of any length, I'd like to point out the problem with the tilesets. Tile based maps are great. Possibly one of the best ways to make a map. That said, these tiles are awful. Nothing wrong with the art, just the structure. Tilemaps shouldn't look like tiles. FF3, Chrono Trigger, and Secret of Mana 3 all used tile based maps, but did such a great job of it that you couldn't look at it and immediately tell where one tile ended and the next started. You'll definitely want to read article. Aside from that, I think these RPG maker programs just give you the tools to make a bad clone of the old Final Fantasy games. Aside from my dislike of that series, I don't see why people only want to make their games like that. Some people just came here and started bugging me about various things, so I've forgotten other things I wanted to say.

Author:	Martin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:12 am ]
Post subject:
Coutsos wrote: Aside from that, I think these RPG maker programs just give you the tools to make a bad clone of the old Final Fantasy games. Aside from my dislike of that series, I don't see why people only want to make their games like that. Some people just came here and started bugging me about various things, so I've forgotten other things I wanted to say. You dislike Final Fantasy?! Get out.

Author:	Mazer [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:44 am ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: Coutsos wrote: Aside from that, I think these RPG maker programs just give you the tools to make a bad clone of the old Final Fantasy games. Aside from my dislike of that series, I don't see why people only want to make their games like that. Some people just came here and started bugging me about various things, so I've forgotten other things I wanted to say. You dislike Final Fantasy?! Get out. Get out yourself. Somebody explain what's so fantastic about the gameplay. (Y'know, I've stated my dislike of it on several occassions before...)

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:11 am ]
Post subject:
This is going to be a long reply... First, To Hacker Dan comments Quote: Personaly i am very agisted anyhing RPG maker based on this site b/c it is not coding it is just clicking a mouse buttion for the most part and making scripts that are not true progaming. (Unless of corse you make your own dll files for it but even then u are still using alot of other peoleops code). If it was me making an RPG i whould rather make my own RPG maker system and then make the RPG (in fact i have done just that for turing and java for compsci class projects....). Just my option about it tho....... Well Let me clarify it you look at my screenshots you would see that the script is complete ruby, and I can get a script editor for it in any language. The program basis is to create a planing guide for making an RPG nothing more. Not all games run on .dll most do nowadays but still! Anyways the editor comes with the RGSS.dll which can be replaced with other languages to allow the use of them. I have also made several RPG in turing, java, C++/C#. I just found this inda fun because it removes the most annoying part of any program. LINKING TOGETHER SO EVERYTHING RUNS. Second, on to jamonathin comments Quote: I Totally agree because I used to be one of those guys on StarCraft who would make those Use Map Settings maps, and once I got into actual programming, I realized it's just for a bunch of noobs that cannot program stuff themselves. If you're looking for sounds or whatever, juss download Bearshare, and search under the .wav section, or any program like that. But yeah, if this was for like turing or something where you can actually program the commands, or actually program, rather than picking one out from a list, then I'd be in, but I'm done with that stuff. You can't compare the starcraft map editor to RPG Maker XP there are two different levels. Everything in this game can be customize. Third, Coutsos comment Quote: My main problem with these RPG makers is that they pretty much stifle any creativity. Before I get into some rants of any length, I'd like to point out the problem with the tilesets. Tile based maps are great. Possibly one of the best ways to make a map. That said, these tiles are awful. Nothing wrong with the art, just the structure. Tilemaps shouldn't look like tiles. FF3, Chrono Trigger, and Secret of Mana 3 all used tile based maps, but did such a great job of it that you couldn't look at it and immediately tell where one tile ended and the next started. You'll definitely want to read article. Aside from that, I think these RPG maker programs just give you the tools to make a bad clone of the old Final Fantasy games. Aside from my dislike of that series, I don't see why people only want to make their games like that. Some people just came here and started bugging me about various things, so I've forgotten other things I wanted to say. What do you mean "they pretty much stifle any creativity. " you can customize everything about it, Window screens, to programing don't post about how they stifle creativity until you try it. Yes true alot do but this is a very good one it is different. Secert of Mana is made in an Older version of this. YOu don't half to make your games like that, I made a 33D tileset for this program the possibilities are endless.

Author:	jamonathin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:20 am ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: You can't compare the starcraft map editor to RPG Maker XP there are two different levels. Everything in this game can be customize. I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm saying they have the same concept. You said you made a 3D tileset, well, why don't you make a 3D tileset in Turing? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying I would rather program, the program that made your 3D tileset, then make a tileset from it.

Author:	Mazer [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:26 am ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: What do you mean "they pretty much stifle any creativity. " you can customize everything about it, Window screens, to programing don't post about how they stifle creativity until you try it. Please show me examples of games made with RPG Maker that aren't very similar (in gameplay, NOT appearance). Here's how I see it at the moment: The game consists of characters (who are defined by stats such as HP, MP, AGI, DEX, STR, DEF, etc.) who walk around on a map and fighting in random, turn-based battles to gain EXP and GP in order to level up and become stronger. You also get to do things like interact with diverse characters or buy thousands of different weapons and armour with steadily increasing strength (sorry, couldn't find screenshots for these) from shops in each town. StarGateSG-1 wrote: Secert of Mana is made in an Older version of this. For seriously? We're talking about the SNES game made by Squaresoft? I never knew that. Could you show me where this information came from?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:
All SNES games were made in RPG makers of some sort aswell as the early FF. Most Tile based games are made in a RPG maker weather it was created by a custom one or professial one. For example Pokemon If you read my first post you would see that I said, If I didn't I am sry I will say It now. The whole game revolves around the script form the Database to the menu and combat. I am still farily new to this so I have not had time to completely change over my game to be different. The game is completely customizable, I will say it again everyhting can be edited.

Author:	jamonathin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: Most Tile based games are made in a RPG maker weather it was created by a custom one or professial one. And it makes sense to do that. The company will make an editing program, then they will apply that to virtually every game they make. Look at blizzard for example. StarCraft, Diablo, Warcraft (I'm sure there's others, thats all i can think of) are all done diagonally. If I made a program like that I would just change skins and reuse it for shure. Ok, yeah you can edit stuff on this program, but that's the kicker, edit. Anyone can edit, not everyone can program.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Opinions Hmmm... Well, for one I used to (and still occassionally) use the Starcraft map editor and the sort to make custom maps - its pretty fun and I wouldnt say its for complete noobs . Also, I tried using some RPG maker, but I didnt really feel it would be worth even getting familiar with but that doesnt say the same thing will be in this case. Next, personally I dislike FF as well but I do like that kind of game so I dont think it would be a waste. More Important Stuff The game looks pretty good so far, and I would be willing to help if you really are dedcated to it. I am not sure how - I am pretty good with sounds, and can potentially do some music. I have also had considerable experience making maps for different kinds of games (not just Starcraft ). On the programming level, I think I'll hold off on learning ruby for now especially since I dont have a lot of time...

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Ok, yeah you can edit stuff on this program, but that's the kicker, edit. Anyone can edit, not everyone can program When I mean Edit, I really mean rewrite, like rewrite the entire script kinda stuff, right now I don't have a skills but after only 3 weeks of trying to leanr I am getting there.

Author:	Mazer [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:
It seems something is up with the forums today, something happened to my last post, so here it is again. StarGateSG-1 wrote: The game is completely customizable, I will say it again everyhting can be edited. I'm going to shut up after this, but first I'd like to to define these terms "completely" and "everything" which you use.

Author:	jamonathin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:
Well, if this program is so "custom", then why is it so hard to do something like that in Turing?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:
ummm.. have you have every taken english, I am serious look up connotative ok.

Author:	jamonathin [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: ummm.. have you have every taken english, I am serious look up connotative ok. lol. Connotative: An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing: Hollywood holds connotations of romance and glittering success.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:54 am ]
Post subject:
To answer your question jamonathin It is because in turing to make a character set you can't just create one image and divided it up it the the 16 parts of a 2-D character movments. It would take even more code to do a tileset. Plus In during you have to create your own databases and have all your own variables. When it comes to events you have to know the exact location of the object, even when working with tiles. P.S If i made a mistake or sound confusing, it mostly because it is 3am right

Author:	jamonathin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:46 am ]
Post subject:
And that's why I would rather use turing. My friend has that program and i've taken a look at it, and it does a lot of stuff for you, and that's what I don't like. Like I said earlier, I'd rather program RPG Maker, than use it to make a game.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
It only does alot of stuff for you if you let it. You could rewrite the entrie script and make the game look total different.

Author:	jamonathin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:
All I'm saying is, RPG Maker is "completely rewriteable", but i can garuntee you, whatever you make in this RPG Maker, you won't be able to do it as easily in Turing or something, which makes RPG Maker a lot more user friendly, and not real programming.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:
IT is really program the database is just like text files, the graphics and sounds speak for themselves and the script is ruby which can be rewritten. It is reall programing all this is a organizer, It makes things easyer to find, Now of course you couls use the Standard RTP anf then it really wouldn't be like programing. But most people rewrite everything, before you post and more about how it is not porgraming you have to try it. Tha only ard about making this game in turing has nothing to do with the programing, that is the easy part. were it gets hard is when you have to make good graphics, find sounds, making database and make maps. None of that stuff has to do with programing, those are all extra's you throw In to add to the game. But you could make a truing game with any more than the code file, but it would suck big time. And as I have said before the coding is part that can be editing most in RPG Maker XP! Also, programing is scripting, the rest of makeing a game is under differnet parts you are trying to lump vereything under turing into programing and in RPG Maker XP under differnet catergories. Personally I think you need to rethink your words alot game making is just about programing, If that were true they would be billions of crap games around. You need to understand that the parts of game making are:Programing Graphics Sound Planing Story Maps Database You may happen to notice that programing in't bold that because it is the least important part of game making. It is also the easyest part. RPG Maker XP compiles all these aspects into an organizer were you can do everything, The only time it isn't programing is when you the default game setup. And on top of the game editor you still need to have sounds editor's, graphics editor's and more! This is better than tuirng anyways because it gives you a direction to go in.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:
jamonathin wrote: All I'm saying is, RPG Maker is "completely rewriteable", but i can garuntee you, whatever you make in this RPG Maker, you won't be able to do it as easily in Turing or something, which makes RPG Maker a lot more user friendly, and not real programming. So what you're saying that anything that isn't done the hard way is not programming? Quote: If that were true they would be billions of crap games around. I wouldnt say this is far from the truth...

Author:	Martin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:
RPG Maker is an example of a very high level programming environment, meaning that it is designed for making a very specific set of applications (ie. RPG's). Hands down, the fastest programming language is assembly. It can do everything every other language does, only quicker. So now, why doesn't everyone use assembly? The answer is time, our most valuable resource. Given endless time, the only thing that anyone would use would be assembly. As you may have noticed, however, we don't have endless time. C is faster than Ruby, but people use Ruby over C because it's easier and faster to develop in. Okay, enough rambling: point is, if you want to make a tile rpg, using RPG Maker would be much faster. You lose the flexability you get with a more general programming language, but you have more time to tweak it and debug it, or you can simply get your product out the door faster. Think of it more akin to the map maker in Warcraft 3 then as an actual programming language.

Author:	Mazer [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Coutsos wrote: I'm going to shut up after this {...} Man, I can sure say some stupid things alot. StarGateSG-1 wrote: Tha only ard about making this game in turing has nothing to do with the programing, that is the easy part. were it gets hard is when you have to make good graphics, find sounds, making database and make maps. That is your opinion. I can never understand why people in my class (on the occassional days that I visit) find computer science to be difficult. On the other hand, alot of people I know seem to grasp math easily and I'm sure several of them wonder why I find it to be so difficult. A good friend of mine once whipped up an absolutely incredible sketch of Wolverine (the classic version featured in the original cartoon) during class, and another is very talented in music, yet they don't find programming to be the easiest thing in the world. EH? StarGateSG-1 wrote: None of that stuff has to do with programing, those are all extra's you throw In to add to the game. I think your contradicting yourself a bit here and there. Programming is an important part of making a game, but by no means is everything else just "thrown in." StarGateSG-1 wrote: But you could make a truing game with any more than the code file, but it would suck big time. And as I have said before the coding is part that can be editing most in RPG Maker XP! I honestly don't want to be sounding rude, but please--I just can't understand what you're trying to say. A turing game would probably just completely suck with just the code file, unless it's a text based game or tic-tac-toe or something relatively simple (design wise). StarGateSG-1 wrote: You need to understand that the parts of game making are:Programing Graphics Sound Planing Story Maps Database You may happen to notice that programing in't bold that because it is the least important part of game making. It is also the easyest part. There's actually quite a bit more to game making than that, but the idea is that they're all pretty much equally important. Just like playing Half Life 2 with all the sound effects made as if they were taken from an NES game (because sound is important) would suck, playing the same game with no/buggy collision detection would be crap as well (good thing some people think programming is important). A narrow minded programmer might think something as simple (to him/her, at least) as the story are really just secondary to getting the code written. But a narrow minded person specializing in anything could think the same about any other aspect.

Author:	Martin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Programming is defintaely the hardest part of making most games (actually, making games fun is the hardest part, as proven by Doom 3 and others, but that's besides the point). Every wonder why programmers make $20k more than everyone else?

Author:	wtd [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:
You're all missing. The hardest part of writing a video game is getting a group of people organized enough to get anything done, whether it's creating the graphics (2 or 3 dimensional), creating plots, or doing the actual low or high level programming. The most important things for a game programmer, in order of importance: Communication skills. Organizational skills. Being an avid gamer. Not just playing games, but being the kind of person who preorders games, even if they're lousy, and has action figures and all of that. You need to know what's come before and more than know it, understand it. You're the kind of person who has an Atari 2600 that still works. A possible substitute is a working NES. Being a good programmer/graphic designer/writer.

Author:	Martin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't have a console. My little brother has a snes and an x-box. The first computer I got was in grade 8. I didn't start programming until I was in grade 10. Who woulda thought I'd be a computer science major?

Author:	jamonathin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree with Coutsos. You see, if i, or you were very talented as an artist, and could whip together maps, characters, and whatnot on the computer, then graphics wouldn't be an issue. Sure it takes time to get all those other factors, but programming is what makes it work. The reason you say programming is last, is because RPG's are long, but not extremely complicated. The story and junk does take time, but it also takes a lot of time to organize your program so everything flows together. Quote: So what you're saying that anything that isn't done the hard way is not programming? No I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is, compare that program to turing. RPG maker is for obviously RPG's. Turing can be for pretty much everything. I'm sure RPG Maker can do a lot of stuff, but (and this is my opinion) using a program specifically made for something (RPG's) takes away from fully programming it. [ btw I ment to post this like 4 hrs ago, i forgot to hit submit]

Author:	wtd [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:
No, the reason I place programming skills last is because I've been around and I've heard from people who program games for a living. Here's the thing: as a professional game developer you will never be working alone. It will always be on a team. Professional and commercial game development is too complex, too sophisticated today to be done by a single person. As such, it doesn't matter how good you are at pumping out high-quality graphics or how good you are at programming. It really doesn't matter if you can't work with other people. It also doesn't matter if you don't have a solid knowledge of gaming history. If you're just focused on the graphics and programming, you're going to write the next Prince of Persia: Worrier Within. Everything in the game development business is just a rehash of some old game, to some extent, so you have to know how to pick the really good ones to draw inspiration from.

Author:	jamonathin [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:
When I grow up I hope to be programming video games, and i just thank god that I wont be the one doing the graphics. Some of the graphics these days are just crazy, and I wouldn't even know how to start comparing to them. Like even Final Fantasy X2, i remember lookin at that about a year or so ago, and just watchin the intro i was like, omg, how are people supposed to compete against that. But that's just another thing about te job of a game programmer, all of the other stuff such as music, graphics and whatnot will be taken care of by someone else. And I know this is what you're trying to assemble here StarGate, and it's a pretty good idea, it's just for me, it feels like I'm taking a step backwards, and if I'm going to learn something new, I'd rather try to learn java, C++ or ruby. But there'll definately be people wantin to help yas out, and i do hope yas do well with it. GL man.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:35 am ]
Post subject:
This is Ruby. but it is modified to have commands for RPG's also i will say this again the script is basic script they wnat you to rewrite, how is it taking a step backward. It is taking a step forward to the next step I guess you aren't ready, you wnat to stay with your weak turing. Find by me just you will get laughed out of vereywere, if you just know turing. Turing is a learnign language not a game maker unless, you are really new to it.

Author:	Martin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:27 am ]
Post subject:
Turing is pretty powerful, and there are very few times that I've ever seen it used to its full potential.

Author:	wtd [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:44 am ]
Post subject:
I'll agree that Ruby is far more flexible and expressive than Turing. However, the Ruby used by this RPG Maker is a perfect example of horrid design, and shows almost no appreciation of the power of Ruby. Any understanding you get of Ruby from this program will be pretty much superficial.

Author:	jamonathin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:49 am ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: It is taking a step forward to the next step I guess you aren't ready, you wnat to stay with your weak turing. Find by me just you will get laughed out of vereywere, if you just know turing. Excuse me? First of all, I'm done with turing after this school year, and secondly, who says you're any good at it? How can you call something weak that you were never any good at? Yeah turing will gett you nowhere in life, because it's moreless an all-around program. Everyone knows that, all it does is teach you concepts, but it's good to learn those concepts. When I first started learning Turing, I was milestones ahead of the class because I understood how things needed to be run. And I learned this from making n00b maps on SC, and there's clearly no language similarities there. Like I said before, i'm going in to the game making field. Obviously I'm going to learn different languages, and that's what I'm starting to do, I'm starting to learn ruby. You should rethink what you say.

Author:	Martin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:51 am ]
Post subject:
A guy at my work used to work for 3d Realms when they released Duke Nukem and started working on Prey. He said that it was an absolutely incredible experience, but the downside(?) being that it wasn't your standard 9 - 5 job. There were no set hours, but when you went in, you were there for 14 - 16 hours at least. They paid him enough that he didn't care though, he said. He ended up leaving because he wanted to have a family, and 80 - 100 hour work weeks don't really allow for that.

Author:	Mazer [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:56 am ]
Post subject:
The game industry can be shitty like that. It can be better in some places, but it can be much worse in others as told by ea_spouse.

Author:	Martin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:57 am ]
Post subject:
Also, what entails 'knowing' a language? Take C++ for example; the language I feel most comfortable using. I'd say that I am a fairly competent programmer for where I am in life. I know how to use a tiny percent of C++'s various libraries, but I can do some pretty cool stuff with what I do know, and I usually don't have too much trouble picking up new things (except dlfcn.h, which still makes no sense to me, but that's besides the point). Do I "know" C++?

Author:	rizzix [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:
whether or not you can use the libraries does not determine your knowledge on the language.. Do you understand the language it self? thats the question you should be asking. by "understand" i mean do you know the whys and hows, and etc.. an easy way to determine ur understanding of the languages. is to be able to use any libraray writtin in that language,, by anyone. (not so easy now is it?)

Author:	Martin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:
rizzix wrote: whether or not you can use the libraries does not determine your knowledge on the language.. Do you understand the language it self? thats the question you should be asking. by "understand" i mean do you know the whys and hows, and etc.. an easy way to determine ur understanding of the languages. is to be able to use any libraray writtin in that language,, by anyone. (not so easy now is it?) In that case I'd say that very few people 'know' any language.

Author:	jamonathin [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: A guy at my work used to work for 3d Realms when they released Duke Nukem and started working on Prey. He said that it was an absolutely incredible experience, but the downside(?) being that it wasn't your standard 9 - 5 job. There were no set hours, but when you went in, you were there for 14 - 16 hours at least. They paid him enough that he didn't care though, he said. He ended up leaving because he wanted to have a family, and 80 - 100 hour work weeks don't really allow for that. That's the only thing I'm worried about, because I don't want games to be my life, I want a family to be my life

Author:	wtd [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: In that case I'd say that very few people 'know' any language. The best programmers acknowledge this and constantly seek to correct it. They challenge themselves to learn new things because they know that doing so isn't as much a way of gaining answers as it is gaining new questions to ask, and that's the true path to understanding.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:25 am ]
Post subject:
As a quit note with more coming later. I asume you eman turing?? I say i am good at it and my teacher because I was writing for servers when i was in Grade 8. I think that qualifies me. I am good in all the languages I know. And befroew I Started leanring the ruby that they use I had to lern the first one. And this ruby is based for RPG's but peopel can right servers in so you can paly muiltpalyer.

Author:	jamonathin [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:46 am ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: As a quit note with more coming later. I asume you eman turing?? I say i am good at it and my teacher because I was writing for servers when i was in Grade 8. I think that qualifies me. I am good in all the languages I know. And befroew I Started leanring the ruby that they use I had to lern the first one. And this ruby is based for RPG's but peopel can right servers in so you can paly muiltpalyer. You do know that english is a language right? And you're probably taking the whole "writing for servers in Grade 8" out of context. What servers? And what are these other Languages that you know?

Author:	jamonathin [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:
On a different note, what do you guys think would be the best language for me to learn next? Because I'm in Gr.12 comp sci, and all we learn is Turing. I was thinking either C++ or Ruby, what do you guys think?

Author:	Martin [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:
It's totally up to you. C++ would probably help you more in university (only because you'd probably end up using it). Both are really neat languages with some really cool ideas. Where are you/do you plan on going?

Author:	wtd [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Ruby. It's easier to experiment with, via the interactive shell, and requires far less boilerplate code to get started and do useful things. But that means I suggest Ruby first. C++ will probably be on your agenda at some point, and probably should be. The thing is, with every language you learn, learning others gets easier. It only makes sense to learn the easier ones first.

Author:	rizzix [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:
well it dosent matter which ones you learn first. so long as you learn them right

Author:	jamonathin [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: It's totally up to you. C++ would probably help you more in university (only because you'd probably end up using it). Both are really neat languages with some really cool ideas. Where are you/do you plan on going? Well, University Computer Science kind of looked boring, and so I saw at St. Clair, and well most colleges have Computer Programmer Analysis, where you learn to make video games. And I've heard from a lot of people that more and more jobs are starting to look at College students. And I don't think my english mark would let me in U anyways, its at 62. wtd wrote: Ruby. It's easier to experiment with, via the interactive shell, and requires far less boilerplate code to get started and do useful things Sounds good. because even tony said that he himself uses Ruby within his workplace. rizzix wrote: well it dosent matter which ones you learn first. so long as you learn them right Yeah that's the hard part, but it will get easier and easier, thanks for your inputs guys.

Author:	jamonathin [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:
I didn't mean to post twice, for some reason compsci was laggin and i posted twice.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: You do know that english is a language right? And you're probably taking the whole "writing for servers in Grade 8" out of context. What servers? And what are these other Languages that you know Of course english is a language and when I mean writing severs you knwo what I mean. That is a very stupid response. the other languages I know are: C/C++/C# Turing Java / Java Script Haskel Python Ruby (learning) Html/Xml/Php ++ Flash o and ya my uncle is teaching me fortran.

Author:	wtd [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:
rizzix wrote: well it dosent matter which ones you learn first. so long as you learn them right Indeed. C++ is often very difficult to learn right, though. There are so many people who basically use C++ as C with classes, and a lot of them have written tutorials.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:59 am ]
Post subject:
wtd wrote: rizzix wrote: well it dosent matter which ones you learn first. so long as you learn them right Indeed. C++ is often very difficult to learn right, though. There are so many people who basically use C++ as C with classes, and a lot of them have written tutorials. Umm...isn't that what it is?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:25 am ]
Post subject:
lol, ya that what it is same as C Net it is that same but is based on a growing comuications network, also it is more compatiably than C++ with XML. C++ is still good though becasue C.net doesn't wrok well form making games.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:35 am ]
Post subject:
Are you talking about C#?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:38 am ]
Post subject:
Both

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:43 am ]
Post subject:
Because C# is incredible for making games, and it really has more in common with Java than it does with C++. The DirectX support for it is phenominal, and it's managed, which means that there's a lot less to worry about with it. Also, it's based on the .net framework, so it's fast as hell. It's not really an innovative language, and it would be much more popular if it was more platform independant.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:04 am ]
Post subject:
jamonathin wrote: martin wrote: It's totally up to you. C++ would probably help you more in university (only because you'd probably end up using it). Both are really neat languages with some really cool ideas. Where are you/do you plan on going? Well, University Computer Science kind of looked boring, and so I saw at St. Clair, and well most colleges have Computer Programmer Analysis, where you learn to make video games. And I've heard from a lot of people that more and more jobs are starting to look at College students. And I don't think my english mark would let me in U anyways, its at 62. A degree is just a piece of paper that says you know how to learn. A lot of people in the gaming industry came right out of highschool. Five years of work experience is worth more than five years of school. If you love what you are doing, you'll be fine. Like wtd said, you'll probably end up learning both languages, and Ruby is a much gentler introduction. If you want to learn how to use OpenGL or DirectX, I strongly recommend using C++ so you can see how everything works at a reasonably low level.

Author:	jamonathin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:31 am ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: A degree is just a piece of paper that says you know how to learn. You know, I never looked at it that way, but it's so true.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:46 am ]
Post subject:
That's not to bash University either: I'm there, and I love it. Plus, I have no idea what I want to do with my life, so it gives me a chance to hopefully figure that all out. If you have an idea already, there's no reason that you should waste your time learning about stuff that for the most part you won't end up using.

Author:	Mazer [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:39 am ]
Post subject:
If you're set (or strongly leaning towards) going into the games industry, read up on the GameDev.net and gamasutra articles. If you plan to go to University, try and find out if they've got any game development clubs and join that (or start your own).

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:51 am ]
Post subject:
Martin you go it backwards C++ is great for games, C# is great for everything else.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:58 am ]
Post subject:
Having probably done far more C# and C++ development than you, I can safely say that C# is probably the best general purpose langauge for making Windows games.

Author:	jamonathin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:16 am ]
Post subject:
Oh wow, GameDev.net is blocked, gg GECDSB!

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:25 am ]
Post subject:
Of course it is it has the word game in it!! funny tho I can say game on here all I want and it won't block it, we have a wrod searcher here that checks the site for any occurance of game not just in haeder and address. See Look GAME game GaMe gAmE GAME game GaMe gAmE GAME game GaMe gAmE GAME game GaMe gAmE

Author:	Mazer [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:50 am ]
Post subject:
And...

Author:	wtd [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: If you want to learn how to use OpenGL or DirectX, I strongly recommend using C++ so you can see how everything works at a reasonably low level. I have to disagree here a bit. Even with the C++ libraries for OpenGL and DirectX you're going to see a lot of abstraction from what's really going on, and at least with DirectX, C# has clearly been stated over and over as the way of the future. Learning excruciating amounts of detail about how to manipulate DirectX stuff in C++ might have some educational value, but not enough considering it's almost guaranteed to have no practical vale by the time any of the kids here get a chance to develop games commercially. As for OpenGL: Learn C. Learn the C interface for OpenGL. Learn Ruby/Python/Lua. Learn how to write Python/Ruby/Lua extensions in C. ??? Profit.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:
There's very little difference between using C and C++ for OpenGL as far as I've noticed, but C++ lets you use classes, which can help you out further down the line. In any case, C is a good language to know. It'll definately make you a good programmer, or at least a careful one. Quote: With C, they made it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. With C++, it's harder to shoot yourself in the foot, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off. In any case, the point here is twofold: 1. If you're going to learn how to do graphics, use a lower level language at first. 2. Learn the language BEFORE you learn how to use the graphics library. Seems kinda intuitive...

Author:	wtd [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:
martin wrote: 2. Learn the language BEFORE you learn how to use the graphics library. Seems kinda intuitive... This deserves to be preserved for all eternity in giant blinking neon lights. Most programming languages that aren't ridiculously primitive (I'm looking at you, C) have lots of facilities for writing programs either better or easier (and generally a combination of the two). But if you try to jump immediately into graphicslibraries, you'll usually overlook those facilities. There's a reason programming generally starts with text UIs. They don't distract you from the code that's doing the real work.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:15 am ]
Post subject:
Hey Martin, you seem to think you have done more C++ than me why? considering I have never mentioned the length I have been doing it! What gives you the rigth to asume that you know more than me. O wait, none you moron!

Author:	jamonathin [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:18 am ]
Post subject:
Well why don't you share your background with the class.

Author:	Martin [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: Hey Martin, you seem to think you have done more C++ than me why? considering I have never mentioned the length I have been doing it! What gives you the rigth to asume that you know more than me. O wait, none you moron! Simply by looking at some of the questions, comments and code that you've posted. It wasn't meant to be an insult. If I'm wrong, then I appologize.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:
I have shared my background with the jam I will state it again I am in grade 12 and taken a 13th year for more computer courses I have been programing wiht code since grade 8 I have worked with types of programing including Starcraft a long time ago (8 years soon to be), this gave me the concepts of programing I started turing in 9 after leanring html I thne expanded to java, C, C++ by grade 10 and was looking into XML I leanred Php soon after and help construct my friedns web page. I learned Java script to help with his game (sadly it crashed and burned after Beta) I then went deeper into C++ and discovered C# for my non gaming needs, At this point I was working with 2-D and combining languages together, I then discovered the power of 3-D with blender and it game engine, this led me into OpenGL and directX I made a language of my own based on turing but 10 times more powerful. I use C++ as a based a made a text editor, I had some help form this with Tom West and Mr. LePage (My compsci teacher) I then went on to further explore combinig lanuages and found fortran which is great for claulates and can be combined quiclky with most languages. Now in grade 12 I have expanded to leanring Ruby, Python as well as dig deeper in OpenGL and DirectX. Now I am just tied up lose ends in my skills and working on my 3 games projects (1 Mine total, 1 I am doing maps and graphics, The other I will be making Tilesets and input) I alos am well learned in engineering and can take apart any computer and put it back blind folded.O ya and like any programign who dreams big I made an O.S. in assembly. How is that for my story!

Author:	Martin [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:04 am ]
Post subject:
Do you have any code that you've done that you can post? Also, why on earth do you want to make an OS in assembly?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:29 am ]
Post subject:
I don't have any of the code with me. I can see if i unpackage it. Most of it is really big thought and I can't post on the site. They are ethier well over 2mb (i.e. O.S is 1.6Gb) or they are to mnay lines. I think one of my program is 100000+ lines so it is really hard to post that. And for the O.S. assembly what else would you make it in. I is the most powerful language ever.

Author:	Martin [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:02 am ]
Post subject:
Sure, it's fast. It's also incredibly difficult to develop in, and as platform dependant as you can get. If you can't post whole programs, post parts of programs.

Author:	rizzix [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:18 am ]
Post subject:
BS... for one.. Assembly is not the most powerful language ever.. its the most primitive.. its only benifit is low level access to registers and speed. As for the rest? what you seriously either dont have much of a life (assuming you actually programmed all you stated above.. and all on your own) cuz wirting more than 1000000 lines of code for an individual.. means there's something totally wrong here... or ur just simply plain Old

Author:	Dan [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:
I find it hard to bilive that some one who could make a fully functuanl OS in asm by them selves whould use RPG maker to make an RPG........

Author:	wtd [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:
Stargate... why don't you head into General Programming and try some of the programming challenges I've posted. Blow us away with your encyclopedic knowledge.

Author:	jamonathin [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Stargate, you remind of one of two types, and I'm not sure which one that is yet. 1) Someone who over exadurates everything they 'think' they know, to make theirself sound smarter. or 2) That guy in gym calss who is good at every sport you play, but never great at one. And you know that his 'good' skills in that one sport will never take him anywhere (unless it's like a physical trainer or something). Also, remember these quotes? martin wrote: Also, what entails 'knowing' a language? Take C++ for example; the language I feel most comfortable using. I'd say that I am a fairly competent programmer for where I am in life. I know how to use a tiny percent of C++'s various libraries, but I can do some pretty cool stuff with what I do know, and I usually don't have too much trouble picking up new things (except dlfcn.h, which still makes no sense to me, but that's besides the point). Do I "know" C++? rizzix wrote: whether or not you can use the libraries does not determine your knowledge on the language.. Do you understand the language it self? thats the question you should be asking. by "understand" i mean do you know the whys and hows, and etc.. an easy way to determine ur understanding of the languages. is to be able to use any libraray writtin in that language,, by anyone. (not so easy now is it?) martin wrote: In that case I'd say that very few people 'know' any language. Just something to think about

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Ok assembly is great without it there would be know windows, that is all I need to say, o wait we wouldn't be on this site rigth. Any one here who has done assembly should know that you can't post it since there is know copy and paste. I just got home form school so i will go through my other hardrives I will take a look for some code or maybe (I hate to do it but rewrite some form memory just to prove my skills). Hacker Dan to answer your question, there are so many types of programing, and my favorite type of game is 2-D (don't ask me why, I just love them) and the one thing that I can't do is make graphics, except for simple tilesets. So this gives me a way to make a game and play it at the same time. There is so much more to programing than writing code. And to the 100000 lines I made a mistake the longest was only 80000, I was doing it off memory at school. Wtd: I will try some some of your porgram's right know I have to do lotta nglish homework: I got an Essay, and a presentation next Friday)\ O I try to be very modest you guys make this os hard thought.

Author:	jamonathin [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Woah, we submitted a reply on the same minute, thats craaazy!

Author:	rizzix [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:
ah but claimed that you know directx and opengl.. not impossible claims.. infact most of us know one of these.. but it suggested that you are into 3d game programming... and ur facination of 2d games is contradicting. nevertheless why keep your knowledge to your self.. contribute.

Author:	Martin [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Of course you can copy and paste assembly files. It's just standard text.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:
I just have one simple question for you Stargate, with all that knowledge why are most of your posts in Turing sections? I have no problem against that, but knowing that much you could surely be an addition to the C++ section, or any other section... BTW, its possible to be into and experimenting with 3d, but liking 2d games more.

Author:	Andy [ Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:
errr unless im mistaken, windows was written on dos, not assembly...

Author:	Dan [ Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:18 am ]
Post subject:
StarGateSG-1 wrote: Hacker Dan to answer your question, there are so many types of programing, and my favorite type of game is 2-D (don't ask me why, I just love them) and the one thing that I can't do is make graphics, except for simple tilesets. So this gives me a way to make a game and play it at the same time. There is so much more to programing than writing code. That made no secne to me what so ever.........you do not have to know how to make graphics to make an RPG engion and esptaly a title set one witch is realy not that hard at all. Progaming != graphics desgin And as martin side asm is like any other text file b/c it is tured in to hex. There should be no logical reason why it could not be copy and pasted from a noraml text editor. As for the windows thing, i know 3.1, 95 and 98 where bulit on dos and techatly they where not realy OS but more of a desktop enerment for dos. XP is not bulit on dos so i am not shure about the ininer workings of it, but i whould hardly say it is made in asm. shure it maybe the case that some is but they bulid on that to the point where they hit the VB level and make dumb apps like mind sweapers =p

Author:	wtd [ Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:26 am ]
Post subject:
I'd wager good chunks of Win 3.1 was built with a mix of Pascal and C. C probably dominated Windows 95 and 98. Later operating systems are C and C++. I guarantee there isn't much of any assembly-level programming involved in Windows NT-based OSes, as they'll run on several platforms.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:37 am ]
Post subject:
Ok lets see were to start for page 6 I write my assembly in dos, not in some window editor, so I cabn't copy and paste, windows is done in dos which uses assembly as it language. Most of my post are in the turing section because I am to busy to post anywere that requires research. I dpn't consider my self a programer, I am a game maker which requires more, I do programing but I am just as happy doing other stuff, i.e story design, database and stuff. O ya I found one of my program's and it was close to 100k lines which isn't all that much, it had 150 files. that is less than 1000 per file.

Author:	rizzix [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:53 am ]
Post subject:
still a lot of code for an individual.. i'd never even think of programming that much.. it's just far to boring for me. This is one of the reasons i like Apple's Cocoa.. it's quick, fast and efficient. And it's also another reason as to why i like Java. Which is also quick, efficient and has a vast standard library.. yet maybe not so great as Cocoa when it comes to GUI. Cocoa simply pwns..

Author:	Martin [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:15 am ]
Post subject:
And that's why I like C++, Vi, gtk and LaTeX...oh...wait a second... And StargateSG-1, if you want people to believe you, just post some of your code. Open up those assembly files with a real text editor, or just attach them to the website.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:57 am ]
Post subject:
Just a sum up to these last 90 posts or so, First off I help out in turing forum because it was my first language, I know how hard it is to get started with aprogramign so I give extra help there, there are also many people posting there so instead of 1-2 problems per day over maybe 10 in turing. I wil try and post my code but it is nothing special, nothing that is uquine there is just lots of it, unforunatly I can't get on my home computer much so I do most of my posting at school. The one thing I don't get is why when I ask for help it turns to how good my skills are and I end up defending myself while there are better things to do, I have spent way to long on this post, and why if someone else askes for help do they not get critized and baddgered about things. I think if you want this contuine everyone should have it done. I forget to mention this, I don't care much for assembly why is that seem to be the focus of this topic, assembly is good but it takes forever and even if I did post code most peopel who look at it and go crazy, I doubt even that most people include the older ones could read most of it considering that each complier is different and that you wouls have to know the exact one, but as soon as I get a chance I might post my text based blackjack (C++) or bits of my turing game, I won't post any of my java pong cause there are to many on here, and theyn are all the same besides that mine has menu's and tilte screen and gameover and victory screens and some hidden and unlockable features as well as some levels. Also the only copy I know of I don't have after my computer crashed I lost it so There is one on myu school server for demo's to new java studeants but I can't get a copy of that for awhile. And on the topic I love C++ but there are so few problems and so many different compliers that different code works, If they had a universal standard I would be oblijied to help more. Anyways for the record I have stopped all programign for awhile because of an overlaod of school work, I will try and psot some help If I get time outside of school.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:02 am ]
Post subject:
There are C and C++ standards. ISO, ANSI, IEEE, POSIX, etc. By the way, what did your ~100,000 line program do?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:49 am ]
Post subject:
My 100,000 line was a game a text based completely random game with a custom build installer and all. I founf my work noe sit took me 6 months to write. O ys the hundred thousand lines includes the text files and data.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
What is a 'completely random' game?

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:09 am ]
Post subject:
Every action you make comes out with a different outcome.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm still lost. Give me an example?

Author:	Andy [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:
if ur really as pro as you claim to be, you wouldnt be bothering with text games and pong... at least post some source and let us see

Author:	rizzix [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:
i'm sorry, but that is just plain stupid. really, man.. who in the world would write 100000 lines of code for a TEXT based game.. good lord.. unless.. maybe.. its an AI engine.. which i doubt.

Author:	StarGateSG-1 [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:40 am ]
Post subject:
ok a completly random game is like D&D everything is randomize, including monster life, atatck, etc... If you have ever played D&D then you know what I mean, and rizzix you don't listen that includes the text files, but there is a kinda A.I engine that calulatyes all the monster data, peopl's opinion's. So don't doubt it, alot can happen in 6 months.

Author:	Martin [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:15 am ]
Post subject:
So kinda like a single player MUD? Zork!

:

You can syndicate this boards posts using the file backend.php or view the topic map using sitemap.php.

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy