Computer Science Canada

Ecoo 2009

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Ecoo 2009
well I know this year's ECOO contest still isn't for another month or so, but I like to think ahead :p, anyone know where I can find some good practice questions? I've been told ECOO is very different from other contests and I'd like to get used to it before we have to write it.

Author:	A.J [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
This site contains the past years' questions : http://www.ecoo.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=61

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
well, I shall get started on these, thanks A.J.

Author:	A.J [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
these questions are a bit different than usual contest problems... The way the contest is set up is also different...

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
yeah... i've read a few of these... holy crap, boardwide question 1 is harder than anything I've ever seen on USACO or CCC I don't think this contest is going to go well...

Author:	A.J [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 wrote: yeah... i've read a few of these... holy crap, boardwide question 1 is harder than anything I've ever seen on USACO or CCC shock I don't think this contest is going to go well... the questions can't be compared to those of USACO or CCC...they are different try looking at more of them, then you'll get a feel of what they are like

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
so, after reading quite a few of these I have determined that : 1. roughly 99% of these are math based instead of algorithm based 2. I am going to bomb this thing

Author:	A.J [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 wrote: 1. roughly 99% of these are math based instead of algorithm based thats not true...only a few of them requires (if any) a little math... saltpro15 wrote: 2. I am going to bomb this thing don't be so sure...these questions just need some getting used to

Author:	DanielG [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
the questions on ECOO tend to be more ad-hock than the usual algorithmic problems of USACO and CCC.

Author:	phleet [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
From what I saw of ECOO Last year (wrote regional and finals, since we were the only team from our board): Program stupid solutions first: The test cases are generally NOT worst case scenarios as they almost always are in CCC. If you're running low on time, opt for heuristic techniques vs trying to fix a bugged algorithm. Make a program to take an educated guess. That got us from 4th to 2nd in the last 5 minutes of regional - got us to finals. Spend more time planning and less time coding. There are only 4 problems, you have a team and only one of you can work the computer at a time anyway. Get used to working on paper. If in doubt, use doubles instead of floats, we almost didn't qualify for regionals because one of our answers was 0.001 off due to float precision errors =_= I would say do problems that aren't simply stock algorithms that are typically used in Dwite and CCC (DFS, BFS, Prim's etc) - ECOO CS ones tend to be problems that don't fit perfectly into one of these algorithms. So yeah, I agree with DanielG. Learn to make the executive decision. If your teammate can't get their code working and you have a solution ready to go that you're 90% sure will work, kick them off the computer and go to work. Do the easiest problem first - There are time bonuses exactly like DWITE.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
ok, thanks for the advice guys

Author:	McKenzie [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
A lot of good advice. Also, be warned, up-front, that unlike other competitions you are expected to be able to use graphics as well. One important piece of advice: practice working as a team with your team. I have seen many teams with great programmers on it fail because of poor teamwork. The more you practice together the better you get. I mean get your team together with one machine and try an old problem set. Learn how to share the time, and to work on paper. Seems obvious, but so few train this way.

Author:	A.J [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
McKenzie wrote: A lot of good advice. Also, be warned, up-front, that unlike other competitions you are expected to be able to use graphics as well. One important piece of advice practice working as a team with your team. I have seen many teams with great programmers on it fail because of poor teamwork. The more you practice together the better you get. I mean get your team together with one machine and try an old problem set. Learn how to share the time, and to work on paper. Seems obvious, but so few train this way. nice hearing from you again Mr.McKenzie I agree, teamwork is essential in contests like ECOO. I am making our teams practice this year. In fact, I am trying to run a 'mock ECOO' with a realtime judge and everything .

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
what do you mean by graphics?

Author:	McKenzie [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:12 pm wrote: what do you mean by graphics? basic shapes, lines, ovals, dots, squares.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
alright, no problems then, we can use Turing for those

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
how come ECOO requires competitors to know graphics? (i.e. what is the reason behind including graphics as part of the material that one needs to know)

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
ex Q1 "draw a smiley face in Turing, it should include 2 eyes, some form of nose and a mouth" lol just kidding, I actually have no idea

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
yeah it's peculiar, I don't know of any other contests that require you to know graphics.

Author:	DanielG [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
an example question from last year was to draw lines on a grid between two points (moving only up/down and left/right) between two pairs of points. It uses the graphics to check your pathfinding as well as obviously, your ability to draw the paths.

Author:	McKenzie [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
I don't know of any other contest that requires graphics either but ECOO is a different for a number of reasons. Most contests are judged by machines where they compare your output with a text file, it would be a pain to try to mark graphics in this format. With ECOO, the answers are checked by real people so it is possible to have graphics checked. I hear a lot of complaints about the fact that graphics are on the ECOO contest. Usually it surrounds around how much of a pain graphics are in C/C++/Java as upposed to Turing. Many people feel that if they have gone through the pain of learning a "better" language it should always help them. The truth is every language has advantages and disadvantages (e.g. C++ STL, Python eval, Java Geometry ....) As far as ECOO is concerned Turing's easy graphics is an obvious advantage. The truth of why graphics are on ECOO is that the problem setter finds the problems interesting and fun.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
graphics are possible in C++, I agree with you that they are a pain though it's almost as if they want you to use Turing...

Author:	A.J [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 wrote: graphics are possible in C++, I agree with you that they are a pain though ( it's almost as if they want you to use Turing... I know....its funny how that works Regardless, I like the ECOO problems, as they are quite interesting. Ad Hoc problems can be quite fun, actually, as they don't require you to just implement a specific algorithm.

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
MAckenzie you teach at MAssey right? Do you run the ECOO contest? Do you head the "problem-setter committee"?

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
and is PAscal allowed at ECOO (i.e. for graphics)?

Author:	McKenzie [ Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Yes to all of the above. Massey, ECOO, Pascal. This is my first year being involved with the problem-setting.

Author:	phleet [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
In terms of C++, look up the allegro game library. This is what our team used last year for regionals. It's a simple method of generating 2D graphics.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
McKenzie, where is Massey? and can I transfer? :p and @ phleet, thanks but we will probably use Turing anyway

Author:	A.J [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 wrote: McKenzie, where is Massey? and can I transfer? p and @ phleet, thanks ) but we will probably use Turing anyway Vincent Massey is a school in Windsor. And it is Mr. McKenzie to you

Author:	saltpro15 [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
cool, and oops sry Mr.McKenzie, I'm used to calling people by their username's

Author:	McKenzie [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Don't worry about it. If it really mattered to me I would have made my username Mr. McKenzie. Just to clear the air about Massey. In my opinion the best thing about it is not the high-end results we get. The best thing is a large community that strives for excellence. I mean the hardest thing about ECOO for us is that we can only have three teams from our school (one of those has to be all-girl.)

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
alright, reviving a somewhat stale thread, but it's safe to talk about solutions, since the last day for ECOO to be written was today, how'd you guys do at boardwide?

Author:	bbi5291 [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Woburn took the first and second places (DMCI, the third and fourth, and I think Vic Park was 5th, although I can't remember). Hanson's team beat mine (surprise, surprise). The problem that gave us some difficulty was the first one; our first submission got only 4/5 because of recursing too deep on the fifth case (we only cut one square out during each iteration, so Windows crashed the program after a few thousand levels). So we had to resubmit, and I think we were only 3 or 4 poitns ahead of DMCI...

Author:	A.J [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
#1 was actually kinda easy...when our team wrote it unofficially (we automatically make it to the regionals since we are the only participating school), we got it right, but the sample output on the boardwide question for #1 was WRONG ....this took us SEVERAL minutes to figure out (as we thought we got it wrong). For one of the testcases, one of the numbers was output as '8888' instead of '888'. So, once we did figure out that the testcase was wrong, we got it marked and got it right. The other questions were extremely easy, but the regionals will be harder, so we are preparing for that !

Author:	zero-impact [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
AJ do you mind me asking how you approached number 3?

Author:	Cyril [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Haha, fourth. One point behind the other DMCI team, and four points behind Brian's team (congratulations!). Made a stupid punctuation mistake in #4. We had 35 minutes to do #4 perfectly and place second, but we stupidly submitted as soon as we thought we were done. Hope this doesn't happen in Stage 2. We did #1 with a greedy divide and conquer method. Basically, we chop the rectangle up into four sections: the largest square placed at the corner, two sub-rectangles that share an edge with the square, and a corner sub-rectangle. We can then memoize, hashing (a,b) to min(a,b)10001 + max(a,b), for a pretty fast solution. If I recall the master theorem correctly, this gives worst-case O((lw)^(log4 3)). I didn't verify for soundness during the competition (checking with their generous sample cases was enough), but I assume that the proof based on the fact that combining 2^k equal tiles will give you another tile. Let p be the highest power of 2 less than or equal to a and b. t(a,b) = 0, if a=0 or b=0 a, if b=1 b, if a=1 otherwise: floor(a/p)floor(b/p) + t(p, a mod p)floor(b/p) + t(p, b mod p)floor(a/p) + t(a mod p, b mod p) Proofs? Counterexamples?

Author:	A.J [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
zero-impact wrote: AJ do you mind me asking how you approached number 3? Not at all. For #3, I just floodfilled at every letter, adding the letters I visit to an empty string. Got example, for the following input: OH 4 3 HO OC **** The floodfill at (1,1) (i.e. the top left point on the graph) would result in the string "HO" (since I added the 'H' and then the 'O' as I floodfilled to them, turning them onto '*'s). Similarly, the floodfill at (1,4) (i.e. the top right point on the graph) would result in the string "OC" for similar reasons. Then, all one has to do is check if the found string is an anagram of the required pattern. For the above example, the program will output 1, since the string that we found when floodfilling (namely the string "HO") is an anagram of the required "OH". This method took me only about 5 minutes to code (as the anagram function can be taken from #2's solution).

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Cyril @ Fri Apr 03, 2009 wrote: Haha, fourth. One point behind the other DMCI team, and four points behind Brian's team (congratulations!). Made a stupid punctuation mistake in #4. We had 35 minutes to do #4 perfectly and place second, but we stupidly submitted as soon as we thought we were done. we were told that for Q4 we had to encode the english message into the vortex cipher code, not decode it >.> so our first attempt we bombed, then my teammate corriep awesomely rewrote most of the program in <20 minutes, good job paul on to regionals!

Author:	zero-impact [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Thanks A.J. I was thinking of something similiar to that. We failed by taking way to long on number 1 and changing our approach 3 times. So we then tried 4 as a last ditch effort and forgot all about the punctuation!! XD 28 points

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
189 points here, how many of you guys are writing regionals in london? EDIT lol don't I have wonderful karma, if i get hit by a bus today I blame you people

Author:	DanielG [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
our team (me AJ, fishtastic, and one other person who doen?t use compsci.ca) is also going to London for regionals. We didn't have anyone to compete in boardwise, since our board has 4 teams that can make it and only 3 signed up for ECOO. anyway, see you there.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:49 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
cool, see you there Daniel, AJ and Fishtastic! out of curiosity, which language will you be using?

Author:

A.J [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:54 am ]

Post subject:

RE:Ecoo 2009

@saltpro15 - Depends. If it is a question that involves graphics, then mostly turing. Otherwise, probably C++.

@Cyril - For #1, it suffices to just shove the biggest piece into the top right corner of the a*b rectangle, and then break it up into 2 pieces instead of 3 (i.e. the area below it and the area to the left of it). So it would be :

code:

function solve (a, b:int) : int

if (a = 0 and b = 0) return 0

For every possible power-of-2 tile from largest to smallest
if a >= size_of_tile and b >= size_of_tile
return 1 + solve(a, b - size_of_tile) + solve(a - size_of_tile, size_of_tile)
end For

end function

This recursive method took <2 seconds for every testcase.

Your algorithm, Cyril, does work too. It is in essence the exact same thing as this.

I can't take any credit for this algorithm, as it was coded by DanielG.

Author:

DanielG [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:52 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Ecoo 2009

AJ, your example has one mistake, it is supposed to be:

code:

if (a = 0 or b = 0)

only one has to be of length 0 to be erased

Author:	A.J [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
My bad. Yes, it is a = 0 or b = 0. Thanks DanielG

Author:	Cyril [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
The graphics ones aren't usually algorithmically hard, right? I expect that I'll resort to VB shudder, and I really don't look forward to coding convex hull/triangulation/trigonometry stuff in such a sterile language. Maybe I should learn Turing.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
Cyril @ Sat Apr 04, 2009 wrote: Maybe I should learn Turing. Cyril, if you don't mind me asking, what was the first language you learned then? I thought everyone started with Turing, this is a welcome change

Author:	A.J [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Cyril wrote: The graphics ones aren't usually algorithmically hard, right? I expect that I'll resort to VB shudder, and I really don't look forward to coding convex hull/triangulation/trigonometry stuff in such a sterile language. Maybe I should learn Turing. You should. It is MUCH easier to do graphics in turing as opposed to VB (I know VB, and the graphics aren't pretty). And the questions aren't too easy, but you should be fine.

Author:	Cyril [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Actually, I started with VB (at the age of 7). I didn't really learn anything about algorithms; I just liked dragging those buttons around. I made a few games and applications back then that I would be pretty embarrassed to show. Since I picked up C++, I've pretty much neglected everything else. Yeah, I guess I'll learn Turing... for the sake of the team!

Author:	DanielG [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
well, if other people on your team know turing, they could just be the ones to focus on the graphics portion, not everyone on the team needs to know how to use graphics.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
well, you could use the sdl lib's with c++, difficult though. Like Daniel said, as long as someone else knows graphics you'll be fine, it's really simple actually

Author:	riveryu [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I think ECOO problems are mostly ad-hoc or any topic within high school grade 12 curriculum. I haven't seen a DP problem yet... All you need to know is recursion, a little math and DFS. Nearly all of the official solutions that i've seen are brute force all the way... e.g. 2006 Problem 4 - Cryptarithm, for this one... the sample solution takes like 1 min... 2005 Longest Chain

Author:	A.J [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Actually riveryu, there was a problem involving DP last year at the finals (last year's problems aren't up on the website for some reason. I emailed Mr.McKenzie about this). And there isn't any 'preparation' that one can do for this contest other than looking at past contests. Although these questions are ad-hoc, they also can involve algorithms that are quite common (like riveryu has mentioned, DFS, recursion, etc...). But these algorithms must be 'tailored' (if you will) to the particular problem, since the question will most likely not be a classic graph theory, or shortest path question for example.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:56 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I wish more contests emphasized the creation of your own tailored algorithms rather than rote memorization and some application of that memory work. Granted that's not easy to accomplish in an annual contest, but it would be nice.

Author:	A.J [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:08 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Well, standard contests like CCC are there to test your knowledge on some of these algorithms. Whereas contests like ECOO, they test your skill a bit more by using ad-hoc questions (most of them requiring a bash solution, or your own tailored algorithm) to complete it.

Author:	corriep [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
A.J wrote: @saltpro15 - Depends. If it is a question that involves graphics, then mostly turing. Otherwise, probably C++. Cool, I didn't know we could use turing at the regionals, I've been scrambling around trying to convert my turing programs into C++ in a desperate effort to learn the language in time.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
damn it AJ, we weren't going to tell corriep that Turing wasn't allowed at regionals

Author:	A.J [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 wrote: damn it AJ, we weren't going to tell corriep that Turing wasn't allowed at regionals lol Don't you mean that you weren't going to tell corriep that Turing was allowed at regionals?

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
oh haha yes that's what I meant, sorry, I typed this as I was running out the door

Author:	bbi5291 [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
While I agree with Gandalf in saying that there should be more ad hoc problems on contests, I think ECOO has a lot of room for improvement; currently its quality simply doesn't measure up to that of more "traditional" contests such as USACO. For one thing, it's marked manually, and there is plenty of opportunity for cheating. For example, since we bring in our own machines, we could surreptitiously install a hidden program that copies all files from the USB drive containing the test data, solve just one problem, get it marked, and thus gain access to all the test data when the USB drive is inserted; use it to check our programs before submitting, or, indeed, hard-code the answers into our code, as they don't look at our sources at all. Additionally, since few judges are available, sometimes my team had to wait to get marked - a judge would come over, write the time on our sheet, and then say that he or she would return; we could have worked further on our program during that time. The time limit on execution is also way too lax, and the phrasing of the problem statements needs improvement.

Author:	A.J [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:27 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I have noticed this too, brian, but as for the contest not being 'traditional' like others such as USACO, I think thats what makes ECOO special. It tests your knowledge on these ad hoc problems, not just on how well you know certain algorithms and their uses. As for the lack of judges, I think it will become better at regionals and finals, as I believe there are more judges (mind you, there are more teams also).

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Brian, isn't that sort of what happened with that DWITE incident too? Also, the questions at regionals will be more difficult right?

Author:	bbi5291 [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
I'll try not to say anything excessively negative about DWITE, since it's so intimately linked with this site. Suffice it to say that I saw DWITE as an extension of the disappointing marks I get in my school subjects. Still, at least this so-called "DWITE incident" (I assume I know that to which you refer) was easily spotted because submitted sources are saved on the site for the perusal of the admins and other users - with ECOO however they'd never know what happened. As for whether the problems at regionals are harder... well, I looked at the problems online, and if you didn't tell me whether the problems were boardwide, regional, or provincial, I would be absolutely clueless as to their level...

Author:	A.J [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
So you are saying that they are all about the same level? I guess the questions are easy...but relative to the boardwide contest, I think that the regional and final questions would be a bit harder.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
lol maybe easy to you guys, us mortals find them challenging however :p my goal is 2/4 questions at regionals, always helps to not put pressure on yourself I find.

Author:	corriep [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Good luck to anyone going tomorrow, and look out for the Awesome Swatcats creeping up the score boards

Author:	saltpro15 [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
good luck to everyone! and like corriep said, watch out for the awesome swatcats

Author:	A.J [ Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I am anxious in meeting you guys tomorrow. And yes I'll watch out for the awesome swatcats tomorrow

Author:	zero-impact [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Well that was fun. I can't believe we're actually going to provincials W00t Awesome SwatCats!

Author:	A.J [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
we failed....would have easily gotten 2nd place if it wasn't for replacing the 'x's with '*'s on #1...

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
we did far better than I thought, see you guys at provincials!

Author:	zero-impact [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Hey A.J. would you mind if I looked at your code for Question #1? No pressure, but if you wouldn't mind could you pm me? Thanks.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
so, who's all going to finals?

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
My team (Woburn #2) beat Hanson's team (Woburn #1), both our teams are advancing. Look for someone with a TCHS09 T-shirt.

Author:	McKenzie [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
A.J @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:00 pm wrote: we failed....would have easily gotten 2nd place if it wasn't for replacing the 'x's with ''s on #1... That's just not true A.J. The third place team was ahead of you by 18 points. You lost 10 points because you didn't get a perfect first submission, but an 8 point spread still puts you a full 40 min away from 3rd place. The minor mistake of using an "" rather than an "x" had no effect on the standings.

Author:	SJ [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
bbi5291 @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:40 pm wrote: My team (Woburn #2) beat Hanson's team (Woburn #1), both our teams are advancing. Look for someone with a TCHS09 T-shirt. our team sat right in front of woburn 1. it was interesting to see how relaxed that team is throughout. we were a little slow on debugging.. but managed to finish 4th. see you next round!

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
Mckenzie, it was cool to see you at regionals, even though I didn't get to talk to you. Congrats on Massey taking all 3 top spots, my team was 6th place from E.L. Crossley. Look for me at the final

Author:	McKenzie [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
It was nice to meet you too. I made the connection today (Saltpro -> E.L. Crossley) and figured I'd see you in two weeks. I suggest you don't post your picture online though, especially when you also openly discuss an exact time and location where you can be found.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I know right, who wouldn't want to abduct someone as sexy as me good luck to all!

Author:	A.J [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
McKenzie wrote: A.J @ Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:00 pm wrote: we failed....would have easily gotten 2nd place if it wasn't for replacing the 'x's with ''s on #1... That's just not true A.J. The third place team was ahead of you by 18 points. You lost 10 points because you didn't get a perfect first submission, but an 8 point spread still puts you a full 40 min away from 3rd place. The minor mistake of using an "" rather than an "x" had no effect on the standings. You are absolutely right, Mr.McKenzie. I forgot to mention that 2 of our team members had completely solved their question (and even coded it on paper as they got bored) while we were doing other questions....otherwise we would have gotten better.. Oh well, a little bit of team work and we're good

Author:	Cyril [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2)

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm wrote: Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2) I am scared of you. (Because of the 7x7x7 Rubik's cube.) You must be much smarter than I am. How on Earth do people comprehend the algorithms?

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Hmm, I noticed a lot of people had trouble with time management and teamwork... didn't you all write DWITE? :p Finals are coming up fast, it's difficult to prepare for ECOO though, the questions could be basically anything...

Author:	corriep [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm wrote: Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2) Awesome, if being good with a rubik's cube = good w/ ECOO then I will be in 2nd place (right behind Cyril)

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
corriep @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:19 pm wrote: Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm wrote: Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2) Awesome, if being good with a rubik's cube = good w/ ECOO then I will be in 2nd place (right behind Cyril) Sorry, but the top two spots are reserved MUHAHAHAHA

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sat May 02, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
yes brian, i can see that confidence spilling over the top of that infinitely sized container which is your ego.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH the gauntlet has been thrown down!

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
sorry brian, just teasing you

Author:	corriep [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Ok fine, I can see I am outclassed. From now on the best juggler = the best programmer

Author:	Cyril [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
bbi5291 @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:13 pm wrote: Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm wrote: Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2) I am scared of you. (Because of the 7x7x7 Rubik's cube.) You must be much smarter than I am. How on Earth do people comprehend the algorithms? Meh, it's a lot more... idle-minded than people presume it to be. After learning the steps/algorithms, it reduces to muscle memory. Please don't be scared; I should be the one who is scared of you. Your math/programming contest record clearly shows your intellectual superiority. (ahaha, do you feel stalked?) Also, do you know if we're allowed to bring food while we're competing? I've got a special brand of beef jerky imprinted with standard computational geometry algorithms. saltpro15 wrote: Hmm, I noticed a lot of people had trouble with time management and teamwork... didn't you all write DWITE? p Finals are coming up fast, it's difficult to prepare for ECOO though, the questions could be basically anything... The problem is, our teams so far have been different for DWITE, boardwide, and regionals. Hopefully there will be no more changes before provincials. corriep wrote: Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 5:08 pm wrote: Due to poor teamwork/time management/careless mistakes, we didn't advance as comfortably as we thought we would (DMCI placed #9 and #10). Look out for someone with a 7x7x7 Rubik's Cube, Gatorade, and lots of miscellaneous food! (also applies for Stage 2) Awesome, if being good with a rubik's cube = good w/ ECOO then I will be in 2nd place (right behind Cyril) I'm not a particularly good cuber, just an overeager one: 3x3 = 0:24 (average much worse), 5x5 = 2:47, 7x7 = 9:25, even cubes = incomprehensibly bad. You should bring your cube(s?) to ECOO, and we can hold a nerd-competition inside a nerd-competition. (to anyone else reading this: bring your cubes as well) Analysis Mode wrote: yes brian, i can see that confidence spilling over the top of that infinitely sized container which is your ego. But you know it's true.

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
@Analysis Mode: You should show more support to somebody else who goes to the same school as you But seriously I can never tell if you're joking when you say my ego is too big. Did you prefer the crying, depressed Brian who complained about how nobody wanted to be his friend, or the bitter Brian, still with zero self-esteem, who complained about how everybody was biased against him, including teachers, because of lack of physical attractiveness? If my ego is an infinitely sized container, the liquid inside must have a volume of a higher cardinality? Hmm... what a possibility. @Cyril: I can tease you the same way that Analysis Mode teases me. It doesn't mean I have a big ego, but I will be disappointed if Woburn doesn't come first and second.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I tried to solve corriep's cube for most of our 3 hour drive to regionals and still failed He then proceeded to solve it in ~2 minutes. bastard. XD edit : woo! approaching worst karma on the site keep the hate coming people

Author:	Cyril [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Oh no, I meant that it wasn't egotistic to say what you said, because we all know it's true. I am not a sensitive person >_>

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
ahh I see Anyway, when you first appeared on this site I remember you said something about being 3rd in Canada in Project Euler - now that's pretty intimidating. I was never 3rd in Canada at anything. Math is harder than computer science, in the sense that a lot more people do it (there is an "olympiad hierarchy" for example : IMO >> IPhO > IOI > IChO > IBO > IAO, IPO, ILO, etc.) And as for stalking, well I do that all the time, so I am not altogether surprised...

Author:	Cyril [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I always thought it was IMO >> IPhO > IChO > IBO > IOI > the rest, and that we computer scientists are n00bs in a relative sense... You should consider joining Project Euler- it has some pretty interesting programming exercises. It's not very good contest preparation, since some of the problems rely on IOI-inaccessible math, but it definitely widens your scope. If the IOI happens to have a "how many ways can you tile an m by n board with triominoes" problem, there's your competitive edge, I guess. Maybe not 3rd in Canada, but evidently you were 1st in Canada for Stage 1. And, of course, you'll shine to the same degree in a few days...

Author:	corriep [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 7:24 pm wrote: I'm not a particularly good cuber, just an overeager one: 3x3 = 0:24 (average much worse), 5x5 = 2:47, 7x7 = 9:25, even cubes = incomprehensibly bad. You should bring your cube(s?) to ECOO, and we can hold a nerd-competition inside a nerd-competition. (to anyone else reading this: bring your cubes as well) Yes, this will be the biggest nerd-gathering Ontario has ever seen; math and science discussions, chess matches, rubik's cubbing, and me in the corner juggling (maybe even some comp. sci)

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
The IBO is a bit of a joke, an eidetic memory would essentially suffice to get you on the IBO team. (The IAO though... is far below even that, from what I can see.) In terms of difficulty of qualification, in this country IOI > IChO for sure. If you master a first-year inorganic textbook, a first-year organic textbook, and can perform grade 12 level lab procedures with a reasonable degree of proficiency, you can make it to the IChO. (Last year the national chemistry olympiad finals conflicted with the CCC so I did not attend.) And the only chemistry contests I have heard of other than the olympiad-related ones are the Avogadro/Chem 13 sponsored by Waterloo, which are ludicrously easy, and the CIC essay contest - if you are smart, then it is much easier to become good at CS than it is to become good at chemistry. As for the IOI/IChO themselves, I can probably only solve one or two tasks fully in each IOI, but at least 75% of the sample IChO tasks seem easy. corriep @ Sat May 02, 2009 8:17 pm wrote: Cyril @ Sat May 02, 2009 7:24 pm wrote: I'm not a particularly good cuber, just an overeager one: 3x3 = 0:24 (average much worse), 5x5 = 2:47, 7x7 = 9:25, even cubes = incomprehensibly bad. You should bring your cube(s?) to ECOO, and we can hold a nerd-competition inside a nerd-competition. (to anyone else reading this: bring your cubes as well) Yes, this will be the biggest nerd-gathering Ontario has ever seen; math and science discussions, chess matches, rubik's cubbing, and me in the corner juggling (maybe even some comp. sci) Last year we played Brawl, ping pong, Slime, pool, and Ultimate Frisbee. Not quite as stereotypically nerdy as you imagined.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
corriep has a wonderful future in a circus if CS doesn't work out and Brian, I challenge anyone there to a game of pool, it's probably the only thing out of that list I don't suck at

Author:	bbi5291 [ Sat May 02, 2009 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
saltpro15 @ Sat May 02, 2009 8:58 pm wrote: corriep has a wonderful future in a circus if CS doesn't work out and Brian, I challenge anyone there to a game of pool, it's probably the only thing out of that list I don't suck at I am absolutely pathetic at pool. Last time I got more scratches than legitimate shots. The other people I played with weren't great either, so you'll probably be dominating the pool table.

Author:	Cyril [ Sat May 02, 2009 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I see. I'm thinking of getting a bit more serious into chemistry- I have an okay background (my mom is a biochemist), but I've neglected rigidly structured learning for some years. Perhaps I should get off my lazy hindquarters and study this summer. I challenge all to Brawl! (although I'm not very good, as they have made Peach a lot worse compared to SSBM)

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sat May 02, 2009 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
bbi5291 @ Sat May 02, 2009 8:53 pm wrote: The IBO is a bit of a joke, an eidetic memory would essentially suffice to get you on the IBO team. ahem what's this I hear?, i assume that's revenge for my comment against you, which, by the way, I admitted was a joke. And i'm expecting 38/50 (stupid wrong answer penalty) on the National Biology Competition. I have to admit, even though there were some hard questions on that exam, it was, for the most part, fairly trivial. Two or three of the questions I'm certain I got right on that exam came from knowledge I picked up in the past week. If this were CS we were talking about, I don't think that little bit of knowledge would've even made a difference. So yes, CS is more 1337 than bio, but brian, you didn't have to make that comment However, questions at the International level get harder, but yeah, knowledge is more important than thinking skills (of course, this changes when we get into professional biological/medical research).

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun May 03, 2009 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
bbi5291 @ Sat May 02, 2009 wrote: saltpro15 @ Sat May 02, 2009 8:58 pm wrote: corriep has a wonderful future in a circus if CS doesn't work out and Brian, I challenge anyone there to a game of pool, it's probably the only thing out of that list I don't suck at I am absolutely pathetic at pool. Last time I got more scratches than legitimate shots. The other people I played with weren't great either, so you'll probably be dominating the pool table. well, right after you and Hanson and the other coding gurus hand my ass to me on a silver platter, at least I know I can get you back in pool xD

Author:	A.J [ Sun May 03, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
....wow, so many people with so many talents......I feel left out ............

Author:	whlue [ Sun May 03, 2009 11:03 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Hello there. I've mainly been a lurker, but I guess it'd be appropriate to post in this thread now seeing that my team (Bayview Glen Team 1) got into the finals this year (#11th). Apparently we're the first independent school team to make it to the finals according to my CS teacher. Well anyway, if you see four guys in uniform (blue blazer, blue tie, except one guy with a red tie), then it's probably us. Looking forward to meeting you guys.

Author:	A.J [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
whlue wrote: Apparently we're the first independent school team to make it to the finals according to my CS teacher. 'Independant school team'? could you explain that please (to me at least)?

Author:	whlue [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
A.J @ Sun May 03, 2009 4:13 pm wrote: whlue wrote: Apparently we're the first independent school team to make it to the finals according to my CS teacher. 'Independant school team'? could you explain that please (to me at least)? By that I mean private school board. The ECOO website calls it the independent school board.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Wed May 06, 2009 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
just wondering, how are you guys getting ready for finals?

Author:	zero-impact [ Sat May 09, 2009 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Well that was fun How did you all do?

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sat May 09, 2009 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
gah we failed happy just to be there though, anyone here get Q1?

Author:	DanielG [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
I got Q1

Author:	corriep [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Ecoo 2009
DanielG @ Sat May 09, 2009 5:13 pm wrote: I got Q1

Author:	A.J [ Sun May 10, 2009 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
We failed .... A LOT worse than I expected... at least reach for the top is going well (well, it is VERY unexpected....we made the TV round...i.e. top 10 in the province)

Author:	DanielG [ Sun May 10, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
AJ, we didn't do that much worse than the expected, if it wasn't for that weird bug we had on problem 3, we would have gotten our expected score. Anyway, congrats on reach.

Author:	saltpro15 [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
We failed horribly and it's my fault I absolutely should have gotten 3 and 4, or at least one of them. Instead I failed Q3 and didn't even start coding Q4 congrats to the rest of my team though, you guys did great!

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
I wish you luck tomorrow A.J. (btw, I won't be on the TV rounds, as the other sub has a category which I suck at down pat: sports)

Author:	zero-impact [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
It's not your fault. We took way to long on the tree one. And then I wasted the rest of the time on far far far to slow Question(the one with the numbers and the words). Would anyone be willing to give me a peek at there answers? By the way. A.J. What is reach for the top?

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
oh w/e, i'll answer, since i happen to be online: Reach for the Top is a national trivia organization in Canada. Teams of 4 players (excluding substitutes) are pitted against each other and a quizmaster reads questions to which teams try to buzz in and answer them. You may buzz before a question is finished, but the reader immediately stops reading as soon as you do that. There are also a variety of different styles of questions. The top team from each region was invited to participate in the Provincial championships. The top 10 teams from here advance onto the TV rounds on TVO, to be held 5/11 and 5/12 (tomorrow and the day after tomorrow). A.J.'s team, Waterloo CI, placed 8th in the province. Our team, Woburn, placed 3rd. As a result, we're playing each other tomorrow. Other teams that made it are UTS, Lisgar CI, Merivale HS, Centennial CVI, etc.

Author:	A.J [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
May the best team win, Analysis Mode

Author:	zero-impact [ Mon May 11, 2009 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
Oh cool. When is it televised?

Author:	A.J [ Mon May 11, 2009 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
We lost .... oh well, well played to you guys, Analysis Mode! I hope you guys win the whole thing @zero-impact: it is aired at the beginning of September (I know, a long wait!). Since we are the 3rd game, it is probably the third week of September. You can also check out www.tvo.org/reach to catch all the episodes at the beginning of September to see us playing. btw, DanielG, I mentioned you on tv for teaching me how to play the 'handflute' thing (can't think of what else I would call it). I played the theme from MathCircus on tv

Author:	DanielG [ Mon May 11, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
lol, now I have to see it when it comes out =)

Author:	Analysis Mode [ Mon May 11, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ecoo 2009
thanks, AJ. Tomorrow will probably be our hardest game so far (UTS). Is Waterloo staying to watch or not?

Author:	A.J [ Tue May 12, 2009 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Ecoo 2009
We are already at Waterloo...sorry. UTS is good, but they aren't as good as they were last year. In the game we played against them, we beat them 330 - 320. I am pretty sure you guys will win. PM me when you get access to a PC and tell me what teams moved on (cause I don't want to annoy the mods by continuing this conversation about reach on this thread )

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