Computer Science Canada

DWITE Turing Discoveries.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  DWITE Turing Discoveries.
I have made the following discoveries:

1) You cannot use flexible arrays in Turing because judge is v2.6
2) Cannot use functions with no arguments (has to be with arguments)
3) Cannot have arrays as an argument

There are lots of more still to come, I will keep on editing this.

By the ways people, if we cannot use flexible arrays, in problem 2 (game of life) How are we supposed to keep the birth and survival ratios? (DWITE nov 2005) This is stupid, I am dropping DWITE because judge's and my distance takes up compilation time, and everytime it counts 1 problem as 2 submissions for some reason. Can someone suggest to Mr Will to upgrade their Judge's version? Thanks.

Edit: Also should I state that no one using Turing was able to successfully execute Problem 2.
Author:  Hikaru79 [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
There's many, many problems with DWITE, and language incompatibilities is one of them Sad The DWITE is fun, though, especially given the 'team spirit' ... I just wouldn't base my whole ego on it. Not to the point where I'd boycott it just because it didn't run one of my problems Wink
Author:  Tony [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DWITE Turing Discoveries.
MysticVegeta wrote:
if we cannot use flexible arrays

you declear a huge honking static array and use an integer counter to keep track of its vertual size Wink

You could always pass meaningless arguments to functions, and not use them.

You could declear a global array, and pass an identification to that array to a function. I'd tell you to use pointers, but I have no clue if v2.6 has those.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
The use of flexible array s in that problem is something like this, Imagine this
code:
var arr : array 1..100 of int
arr(1) := 10
arr(2) := 20


Now if I want it to read only the first 2, i would have to go something like this
code:
for x : 1..upper(arr)
But that would make the loop go to 100 and would give an error at 3. Also there is no catchArraysOutOfBoundsException;
Author:  Tony [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
so use
code:

var arr : array 1..100 of int
var counter : int := 0
arr(1) := 10
counter += 1
arr(2) := 20
counter += 1

for x: 1 .. counter
    put arr(x)
end for
Wink
Author:  Martin [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Look at the DWITE as being fun. Don't worry too much about how you do. Enjoy yourself Smile
Author:  JackTruong [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Think of this as a way of saying; "learn another programming language".
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep. I think I am gonna do it, I am going to Java, since I already know IO and vars/arrays/loops in it. Lets see how much I can accomplish in 24 days Wink
I am really starting to hate redeclaring predefined functions Mad
Thanks for suppoert guys
Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's a shame. I wonder why this problem only surfaced on this competition. Why not previous competitions? No one used flexible arrays or functions with no arguments in previous competitions?

I suppose I should do this in a different language then. Must drag my team though learning Pascal or Java. *sigh*

Too bad they don't support Ruby. That will run from DOS.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, Cervantes, what will you do, Java or C++?
Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
MysticVegeta wrote:
Yeah, Cervantes, what will you do, Java or C++?

Well...
Cervantes wrote:
Pascal or Java


I hope that clears that up.
Author:  MihaiG [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
if ur going for pascal why not upgrade and go for visual pascal (delphi)... Laughing
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Does that have similar syntax to pascal?
Author:  bugzpodder [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Hikaru79 wrote:
There's many, many problems with DWITE, and language incompatibilities is one of them Sad The DWITE is fun, though, especially given the 'team spirit' ... I just wouldn't base my whole ego on it. Not to the point where I'd boycott it just because it didn't run one of my problems Wink


just give the guy (will sentjens) a howl, he'll listen to ya for the most part.
Author:  md [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:01 am ]
Post subject: 
El Comandante wrote:
if ur going for pascal why not upgrade and go for visual pascal (delphi)... Laughing

Delphi is not "visual pascal" it's an entirely different beast. If your going to learn pascal do it right and learn real pascal.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shocked whos the person being desribed here?
Author:  Andy [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
i was refering to el comanfagatron before it was deleted
Author:  wtd [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Are we talking Java 1.5.0, or 1.4.2? That would seriously influence my choice.

And MysticVegeta: what do you mean by "redeclaring predefined functions"?
Author:  Cervantes [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem with Turing should be fixed, now. I think they're using a 4.0.x version.

My compsci teacher sent out an email to all the compsci teachers, and apparently a few knew how to run turing from the command-line.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
ya I got that info from my friend, they are going to be using the latest compiler now Smile

wtd: I meant for example: String.lower didnt exist in turing 2.6, so we would have to go.

code:

fcn lower (x : string)
//process on the string
result lowerString
end lower


But not anymore!!!!! Razz Razz
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
So, how did they do it? Smile
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
I dont know how they did it but it does say "This program cannot run in DOS" when you open turing.exe with notepad (The unencrypted text) I guess it could compile in Dos.....? I am stilll confused about it Confused
Author:  we64 [ Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
dwite.org says they still have problem with the new Turing Compiler for the judge. I wonder if they can fix it on time.
Author:  McKenzie [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was bugging Will to upgrade to Java 1.5. He told me it was top priority. Instead he posted on his site that they are using 1.4. Oh well, at least it's not as bad as the University of Windsor competition where they assured us they could handle 1.5, only to discover at the last minute that they could only use 1.4.
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
DWITE has a lot of bugs with Turing... my god! I coded the 3 problems in 40 minutes and received 0 score I sent in SAME problems after 2 hours and received 100+ if it had executed properly before I would have had a godly score and I would have had more than 2 hours to get my hands on the rest 2 problems. Instead, I had to waste those 2 hours figuring out the code in Java of those 3 problems. (which I did) But thats not the point!!! I was so ticked off! god...
Author:  Andy [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
MysticVegeta wrote:
DWITE has a lot of bugs with Turing... my god! I coded the 3 problems in 40 minutes and received 0 score I sent in SAME problems after 2 hours and received 100+ if it had executed properly before I would have had a godly score and I would have had more than 2 hours to get my hands on the rest 2 problems. Instead, I had to waste those 2 hours figuring out the code in Java of those 3 problems. (which I did) But thats not the point!!! I was so ticked off! god...


that wouldnt have got you an godly score... you're supposed to be able to do the first three within the first half an hour.. thats how all the highscores are generated..

and mckenzie, are u serious?? when was this windsor competition?
Author:  MysticVegeta [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Andy wrote:
MysticVegeta wrote:
DWITE has a lot of bugs with Turing... my god! I coded the 3 problems in 40 minutes and received 0 score I sent in SAME problems after 2 hours and received 100+ if it had executed properly before I would have had a godly score and I would have had more than 2 hours to get my hands on the rest 2 problems. Instead, I had to waste those 2 hours figuring out the code in Java of those 3 problems. (which I did) But thats not the point!!! I was so ticked off! god...


that wouldnt have got you an godly score... you're supposed to be able to do the first three within the first half an hour.. thats how all the highscores are generated..

and mckenzie, are u serious?? when was this windsor competition?


a godly for me is 500+.... not 600+.... for I am yet a newbie Crying or Very sad
Author:  Mr.S. [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DWITE Turing Discoveries.
Thanks for pointing out some discoveries with Turing.

I have tried to get support from Holt Software regarding the Turing compiler but nobody responds to my e-mails or to my phone calls. I'm not certain that Holt supports Turing anymore. Sorry.

I suggest that if Turing is not successful for you during a contest, that you try another programming environment.

Mr.S.

MysticVegeta wrote:
I have made the following discoveries:

1) You cannot use flexible arrays in Turing because judge is v2.6
2) Cannot use functions with no arguments (has to be with arguments)
3) Cannot have arrays as an argument

There are lots of more still to come, I will keep on editing this.

By the ways people, if we cannot use flexible arrays, in problem 2 (game of life) How are we supposed to keep the birth and survival ratios? (DWITE nov 2005) This is stupid, I am dropping DWITE because judge's and my distance takes up compilation time, and everytime it counts 1 problem as 2 submissions for some reason. Can someone suggest to Mr Will to upgrade their Judge's version? Thanks.

Edit: Also should I state that no one using Turing was able to successfully execute Problem 2.
Author:  Tony [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DWITE Turing Discoveries.
HoltSoft doesn't answer my emails ether.
Mr.S. wrote:
I'm not certain that Holt supports Turing anymore.

I wonder if it would then before fair use to redistribute Turing? Confused I mean we do most of the support here anyways Thinking

Anyways, since DWITE now runs with Ruby - that is definitly something to consider Wink
Author:  cool dude [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
another wierd thing about dwite is that at times we submit our program and it says it took too long to run when it clearly runs less than a second. so we submit it it the second time and we get full points for it.
Author:  Mr.S. [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
The input data files for the first submission are usually different than the input data files for the second submission. It is possible that your code got hung up on the first submission but not on the second submission. The input and output files are posted under Previous Contest Results link at www.dwite.org. Check out your code against these files.

Mr.S.

cool dude wrote:
another wierd thing about dwite is that at times we submit our program and it says it took too long to run when it clearly runs less than a second. so we submit it it the second time and we get full points for it.
Author:  Mr.S. [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:21 am ]
Post subject: 
The DWITE judge currently uses Excelsior Jet Personal Edition Java Compiler - jc.exe which can handle Java 2 - 1.4. It was free from their site a couple of years ago. Their current compiler which is compatible with Java 2 - 1.5 costs $100 for an educational license. I have contacted Excelsior, and asked them to send me a free copy. I am waiting for a reply.

If someone knows of another way for me to handle Java with the DWITE judge, please let me know.

Thanks. Mr.S.


McKenzie wrote:
I was bugging Will to upgrade to Java 1.5. He told me it was top priority. Instead he posted on his site that they are using 1.4. Oh well, at least it's not as bad as the University of Windsor competition where they assured us they could handle 1.5, only to discover at the last minute that they could only use 1.4.
Author:  Tony [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I would say Sun's javac, but that just seems way too trivial. I must be missing something.

code:

javac Source.java
java Source.class
Author:  wtd [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's free Tony, and therefore must be inferior.
Author:  Tony [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I get your sarcasm, but
Mr. S wrote:

Excelsior Jet Personal Edition Java Compiler ... was free from their site a couple of years ago.

Actually it would be for the best to move away from the paid compilers for the reasons discussed here. It would not be fair to participating students if the judge is running a paid propriatory compiler that they can't get a hold of to get accustomed to, or at least test before the submission.

That's why next year DWITE will be running javac Wink
Author:  Mr.S. [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Excuse my ignorance with Java.

Prog1_1.java contains the following code:
code:

import java.io.*; // Java I/O
import java.text.DecimalFormat; // Formatting

public class Prog1_1
{
        public static void main(String args[]) throws IOException
        {
                BufferedReader input = new BufferedReader( new FileReader("DATA11.txt") );
                PrintWriter output = new PrintWriter ( new FileWriter("OUT11.txt"));
                DecimalFormat twoDigits = new DecimalFormat("0.00");
                for(int i=1; i<=5; i++)
                {
                        double number = Double.parseDouble(input.readLine());
                        output.println(twoDigits.format(number*number));
                }
                output.close();
                System.exit(0);
        }
}


I execute: javac prog1_1.java and it creates prog1_1.class
I execute: java prog1_1.class and get the following error:
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: prog1_1/class

Help?

Mr.S.

Tony wrote:
I would say Sun's javac, but that just seems way too trivial. I must be missing something.

code:

javac Source.java
java Source.class
Author:  zylum [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
javac prog1_1.java
java prog1_1.class

it's case-sensitive so should be Prog1_1.java/class

also i dont think your class should be public.
Author:  Andy [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:21 am ]
Post subject: 
it does have to be public
Author:  Mr.S. [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Same error.

I'm certain that I have the case-sensitive problem resovled. If the class is not public, how should it be coded.

Again, excuse my ignorance about Java. This is probably quite trivial, but I have done no programming in Java.

Thanks. Mr.S.

zylum wrote:
javac prog1_1.java
java prog1_1.class

it's case-sensitive so should be Prog1_1.java/class

also i dont think your class should be public.
Author:  Tony [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:34 am ]
Post subject: 
apparently it's because
Quote:

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: sun/tools/javac/Main means that your classpath is not set correctly. Make sure your JAVA_HOME is set up right

Which would be pretty redicilous, since I'm getting the same exception on Solaris ! Then again other trivial java programs through the same thing.
Author:  Andy [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
oh! that's not what you call.

javac prog1_1.java
java prog1_1
Author:  Tony [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
oh wow, Andy's right. Totally my bad (that's what you get for not doing Java in so long).

could someone enlighten me as to what the deal with .class is then? I would guess that it is added implicitly by java, but then why is there that exception if prog.class.class is called? Confused
Author:  Andy [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
try to do a java on some other random file, it should give you the same error. in the prog1_1.class.class there is no main class =P
Author:  Tony [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andy wrote:
try to do a java on some other random file, it should give you the same error.

It does
Tony wrote:

on Solaris ! Then again other trivial java programs through the same thing.


Andy wrote:
in the prog1_1.class.class there is no main class =P

but there is no prog1_1.class.class Confused shouldn't it be throwing 'no file found' exception instead?
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tony wrote:
but there is no prog1_1.class.class Confused shouldn't it be throwing 'no file found' exception instead?

Guess they don't know about file not found exceptions? Razz
Author:  Mr.S. [ Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aaahhh. Thank you. So that's what it takes.

I'll need to make some adjustments to the judge's code to handle Java submissions, since it won't need a compiler. Hopefully, I'll find some time over the next week to upgrade to Java 1.5, make the changes and also start preparing for the November 28th contest.

Thanks again. Mr.S.

Andy wrote:
oh! that's not what you call.

javac prog1_1.java
java prog1_1

:


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