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What's the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?

Author:	mirhagk [ Wed May 08, 2013 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	What's the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I have finished my first year of compsci at McMaster University. I took a 3rd and 2nd year course and sat in on a 4th year course (I wasn't allowed to go that far ahead) in addition to my 1st year courses. Because of this I have a good idea of how difficult university is, and since this is my 5th year of working with computer science, I am more than capable of doing any of these courses, and most of the content for a course I could learn in a weekend. I REALLY don't want to waste my time and money at university, but having a degree is pretty much a must for a lot of positions, so I need to get the piece of paper stating that I know what I'm talking about. I am wondering if anyone knows of any online/distance courses I could take and do at my own pace, ideally I'm looking for cheap ones. They need to be from an accredited university because I am going to try to transfer credits to McMaster so I can still get my degree from a good university. I believe the limit on the number of courses I can transfer is 40%, and I take 10/year for 4 years, so I can get 16 courses from other places, including 10 electives, so they don't need to be compsci courses. I am currently taking one from Athabasca, but the price is $700 which is pretty much the regular price anyways, I just get to do it MUCH faster (I'm going to start and finish this weekend, because it's 4 assignments of 4 simple C++ programs each worth 70%, and an exam. I just need to pass, because marks from transfer credits don't count towards GPA). I'm looking into Udacity, since they have partnered with San Jose to offer 4 courses that are worth credits (their compsci is equivalent to 1st year though, so it doesn't help, but the psych and stats might be transferable). Ideally this is the kind of thing I'm looking for, because the price is $150, so taking 10 courses is not prohibitively expensive (because OSAP probably won't help out with additional courses). Every year I can finish early is a year of pay, so finishing early is most likely better than finishing cheaper. I probably won't be eligible for a loan besides OSAP, and my parents don't really own much either, so getting it shared under their name won't really help that much, so doing all the courses at $700 probably won't be possible, unless someone has an idea for where I can get some additional money to help pay for it.

Author:	andrew. [ Wed May 08, 2013 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I doubt there's a legit way to do this while still getting a degree from a reputable school :/ Honestly, the best option is UWaterloo's CS coop program. The coop placements each term are usually enough to pay for a lot of school. The school is very reputable in the technology world. And you get lots of experience (from many different places too).

Author:	Dan [ Wed May 08, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I think you are missing the point of university if you aim is simply to get your degree as fast as possible. Also claiming that you could learn the content of any undergrad CS course at your university over a weekend is incredibly arrogant. If you really want to know about options for transferring credits, you should be talking to the chair of your department.

Author:	mirhagk [ Wed May 08, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Actually it's not so much that I can learn all the content in a weekend as I already know 90% of the content, and I'm just missing that 10% from formal training. I've had a job working with databases, and I learned more from the first month there then from the entire semester doing a databases course. So I can't learn ANY course over the course of a weekend, but a lot of the CS courses (and easier electives, like econ) I can do very quickly, much quicker than the 4 months allocated. Either way, each course has 1 hour classes 3 times a week, for 4 months. That's 48 hours of class time, which is pretty much a weekend. If you focus hard enough, and are quicker than the average person (suggesting that everyone would require the 4 months is just plain silly), it'd actually not be that difficult to learn all the content in a weekend. I actually do like university, I just want to go faster, the pace that's set for most of these courses is too slow that I don't have enough stuff to do and end up doing tons of side projects. I just feel like I could do it at at least 2x the pace, and feel like I'm wasting half my time. I guess the subject title is a little bit off, really I'm concerned with learning as much as I can, and want to devote all my time to learning stuff, but I hate that 90% of my learning doesn't get credit (because 90% of my learning is on my own), and university is WAY too expensive for what I get out of it (job experience usually teaches me much more, and just reading up articles, blogs, papers, online books, tutorials etc teach me way more than school, and all of that is free, or at least very cheap in the case of the books). If courses were a more reasonable price (like $300) then I'd happily take as many as I could possible fill my time with. It's stupid anyways, because 90% of the money they spend goes to 10% of the students (like tutorial hours, where only a few students need help, and the rest of us pay for the help they need. It should really cost for tutors)

Author:	Tony [ Wed May 08, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
mirhagk @ Wed May 08, 2013 7:30 pm wrote: I've had a job working with databases, and I learned more from the first month there then from the entire semester doing a databases course. On the job you've learned some about SQL and nothing about Relational Algebra. (so practical application vs. abstract theory). Buy hey, if you feel like you know it all already, you can find a University that will let you challenge for those credits ? http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/calendar/2012-13/pg94.html

Author:	mirhagk [ Wed May 08, 2013 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yeah I've talked to several profs, students in the Computer Science Society (including ones who represent faculty of computer science for McMaster) and none of them can ever recall anyone being able to challenge for credit. It took me a ridiculous amount of time just to get permission to enrol in databases class, after getting 12/12 in the closest class to the prereq that was offered in 1st semester, and having worked with databases for a year. Challenge for credit is a thing that exists in university policy, but not in practice. I'm going to try to challenge a credit for course come September, but I was wondering if anyone else had any ideas for easier ways, because the university makes it so much work it's almost less work to do the course. Yeah I know on the job teaches more practical, and less theoretical, however I learned WAY more about relational algebra on the job than in class, so that's a poor example. Actually the only new areas I learned was on decomposing tables BCNF form, and schedules to prevent locking, SQL, relational algebra, and pretty much everything else in the course was learned in my first month at the job. Only thing I didn't learn was the exact symbols, but that's irrelevant, the theory is the important part. I agree that university is supposed to teach theory, and should be left that way, but it sucks that a theoretical degree is required for jobs that have nothing to do with theory. If I can successfully convince a teacher to let me challenge for credit (which will be a lot of work), then I'll take that route for a bunch of my courses. The other alternative to is convincing the school to let me take more than the required number of courses, I could easily handle a couple extra courses so long as I wasn't working. Also I don't think I know it all, but I do feel like I know at least 75% of the course content, and don't require nearly the amount of effort as the students who are picking of compsci for the first time in their lives here.

Author:	andrew. [ Thu May 09, 2013 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I agree with you when you say that the theory you learn in university isn't directly applicable in real life. However, I don't believe the point of university is to give you specific knowledge. In my eyes, the point of university is to teach you how to pick up abstract concepts quickly, and how to interact and connect with many people. Both of these skills are very valuable in the workforce. I'm not sure about CS, but in engineering, I've used almost nothing that I've learned so far (I'm in 3B at UW for ECE). However, the amount of work we get has forced me, and my classmates, to be able to quickly learn abstract concepts and apply them, which is a skill that can be transferred to your career. Edit: Also, as a note, I doubt that any prof would let you challenge their course because it's extra work for them and they're probably skeptical of a first year student to successfully pass.

Author:	mirhagk [ Thu May 09, 2013 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yeah that's exactly why I haven't been able to challenge for credit, teachers don't want to do the extra work, and don't think that anyone could possibly have learned anything by them-self. Hopefully with all my compsci marks being 12/12 except one course that's 11, they might let me challenge stuff come fall time, but no-one I've ever spoken to has ever been given an opportunity to challenge for credit. The problem with that view of university is that I'm not getting a ton of work, or a ton of stuff to understand. Part of the reason I want to fast track university is that I end up spending most of my time learning other concepts because comp sci courses are all introductory, and don't get very complex.

Author:	Dan [ Thu May 09, 2013 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
To be fair if I was a professor and a first year came in to my office and stated that they wanted to challenge my 4th year course with only high school CS and a year of possibly questionable work experience I would either just laugh in till you left or make the hardest examination I could think of that would still be justifiable, as i would be rather insulted by the student's arrogance. You have the rest of your life to work a sole crushing 9 to 5 programming job. Why not take all the free time you are given (as your classes are apparently so easy) to study topics outside of the curriculum you are given? Or, if money is such a big issue, why not simply get a part time job as you don't need the free time to study?

Author:	mirhagk [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:48 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I didn't try to challenge 4th year courses, I was trying to challenge a 2nd year course, and a single 3rd year course (that has only 1st year prereqs). I wasn't arrogant at all, I simply asked if I was allowed to enter the 3rd year course, and then when I sat down for a meeting after sending in my resume, school marks, recommendation from 1st semester professor, and quite a few samples of code from my work, I asked if it was possible to challenge the course for credit, and I got a flat out "No, McMaster doesn't do that". I didn't argue with the prof because I was still trying to get into the course, and arguing with the prof wouldn't get me anywhere. I don't have to work at a soul crushing job, that's the beauty of compsci. Even working for a non-compsci workplace (healthcare research centre), doing web programming, it was actually pretty fun, as there were daily challenges, the only time when I wasn't challenged was when the testing team all left and all the coders had to do testing for a day. School is soul crushing, as I sit in a classroom for hours each day, unable to do anything productive, while listening to the prof explain the fundamentals of compsci, things that are taught in grade 10, and have been repeated time and time again on sites like this.

Author:	Tony [ Thu May 09, 2013 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
mirhagk @ Thu May 09, 2013 11:48 am wrote: I sit in a classroom for hours each day, unable to do anything productive, while listening to the prof explain the fundamentals of compsci, things that are taught in grade 10, and have been repeated time and time again on sites like this. For the most part, lecture attendance is optional.

Author:	SNIPERDUDE [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Tony @ May 9th 2013, 2:22 pm wrote: For the most part, lecture attendance is optional. This. I do most of my projects at home, and only go in when required. Do pay attention though and ask your prof, some do make attendance a requirement (for whatever inexplicable reason). The extra time is put toward working on my own projects.

Author:	mirhagk [ Fri May 10, 2013 11:57 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yep attendance is optional, which is why I skip a lot of classes, and spend the time on my own stuff. I just feel like if I'm skipping classes, then really why am I paying $800 a course? So far the only real redeeming factor is meeting other compsci people. It just seems like a huge waste paying 10K in order to meet other software developers. The other skills (ability to learn concepts quickly, good work ethic) can be learnt from a job, which are more fun than school, and the rest of the skills I can learn on my own at home doing genuinely awesome projects. I'm seriously considering taking a year off and just working full time for random open source projects. I think I'd learn a TON, it'd build an awesome portfolio, and it'd be really fun.

Author:	btiffin [ Fri May 10, 2013 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
mirhagk, from old guy Until you realize that any one human can know very little of that to be known, you know very little. Cheers

Author:	2goto1 [ Sun May 12, 2013 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
University is so overrated. A sound high school education is all one needs. Actually, when I was in grade 9 I was pretty sure that I knew everything, I should have just quit high school. I had a pretty knowledgeable swagger, and a cool haircut. Fortunately I completed university and learned to appreciate the value as I grew older...it only took to my mid-twenties or so before I began to truly appreciate the benefits that I had gained by completing my degree. Wisdom often falls deaf on the ears of those seeking knowledge.

Author:	mirhagk [ Mon May 13, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
But that's the whole issue 2goto1, I don't want knowledge, but that's what school focuses on. Memorization is WAY more of a focus than on discovering, learning or understanding. At my old work, at least 90% of upper year university students failed Fizz Buzz. The university degree couldn't prepare them for basic logic, because they spent their entire time memorizing assignments that were repeated on the exam. I wish university taught skills and how to think instead of just knowledge... but as it is university degrees don't say anything about the skill of a programmer.

Author:	Tony [ Mon May 13, 2013 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
You should have gone to UWaterloo, UofToronto, or any other well ranked University instead

Author:	crossley7 [ Mon May 13, 2013 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I know at UW I haven't had ANY memorization to do in my CS courses first year and very little in my other math courses (about 8 proofs over the year for calc and need to understand and know enough theorems in lin alg second term) I somehow doubt the fizz buzz statement and trust me when I say if you try memorize enough material for 5 courses, you won't be getting anywhere. To get places in uni you need to learn how to learn. Once again, it would help if you didn't make such broad sweeping statements. And once again, a CS degree is not one that is designed to make you a code monkey the rest of your life. Generally you write code to test your algorithms but that would be about it.

Author:	2goto1 [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Give your school time or pick a different one. No credible university will focus on memorization more than discovering, learning, and understanding. You might disagree if you're a first year student, but things should get more cerebral with each subsequent year. No matter your choice of university, you'll always get more out of what you do outside of classes than what you do within. Better schools have more robust extracurricular ecosystems that can help to provide more opportunities for students. And it's up to you to be proactive outside of class to maximize your learning benefit.

Author:	randint [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
crossley7, does that mean that a CO degree is equally as good as a CS degree in getting the theory I need?

Author:	crossley7 [ Tue May 14, 2013 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
CO and CS have different focuses to my knowledge. There is a bit more math in CO and it focuses on the higher level obscure types of problems in mathematics and computers. CS ranges from hardware to software to algorithms. That being said, I don't want to broad sweeping statements about either as I have only taken first year CS courses and none related directly to CO yet. That being said, the two compliment each other really well to my understanding.

Author:	mirhagk [ Tue May 14, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Actually it's a well known fact that a lot of CS grads can't write a simple program. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html The 90% of interviewees can't do it doesn't mean 90% of students can't, because obviously worse students interview with more jobs, but it's still a lot higher than it should be (near 0%). At my work we stressed that it didn't matter if it was pseudo-code, real code, flowcharts or anything, we just wanted the logic of Fizz Buzz, and most of them (it wasn't just McMaster students, we had quite a few from Waterloo as well). This comic states the problem with a lot of schools at the high school level, and what I've experienced from first year (and heard from grads at other universities). http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2976#comic It's not every teacher and school, but a lot seem to think that handing out bonus assignments, or allowing students to resubmit assignments after explaining the answer to them will magically make them better. Even when the class doesn't require memorization, it can often allow students who memorize to pass. ie if your prof teaches everything that is on the exam, you can just memorize the process, without actually understanding and just do it. Many of my collegues, and "professional" developers are like this. Graduate level schooling is awesome, and I can't wait until that, because that is promoting students to actually learn, discover and gain skills.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
WAIT A SECOND! Did students really have trouble making that Fizz Buzz program, seems a bit trivial doesn't it?

Author:	mirhagk [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yep, and according to Jeff Atwood so do many professionals claiming years of experience.

Author:	Kam [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What's the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Come to UW. The only memorization you need to do are most likely in math classes where you need to know theorems to help argument ideas in proofs. The other only time you may need to is in algorithms when you need to reduce that a problem is NP complete, but then again, i regard that as remembering what you understand more than memorization.

Author:	mirhagk [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I wish I could come to waterloo, but HS english mark was only like 65% so they didn't accept me.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I don't like the idea of memorization, it requires too much effort. Is it not better to just understand the work you are given? In high school this is enough, but I am not sure about University, I am probably dead wrong right? MIRHAGK SAME, I got 61 in english, but 94+ in everything else, so I accepted to Guelph. Tbh my english mark is probably bad because I have very poor homework skills, I do zero work at home haha.

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
How do you do 0 homework and get 94+ in math??? I'm doing an hour and a half of math homework a night to maintain my mark!

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I really don't know how to say this without seeming arrogant, so I guess I am not really going to say anything but, I listen attentively in class, I try to understand the concepts and for now that seems to be enough.

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I used to be able to do that and get 90's, but since this grade, I can't get more then 85 without doing homework. What grade are you in?

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I am in grade 12, and I found grade 10 math realllyyy easy. Actually I did my homework back then, but I did it in class. Also if you think grade 10 math is bad, wait for grade 11 and 12 functions, what you do in a semester, they do in a unit haha.

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
You got time in class to do homework??? I guess I could do it during the lesson, but besides then, we have no time in class for homework. If I have to do a bit more homework for grade 11 and 12 math, it doesn't really matter to me. The only hard courses I'll have are physics and English, I'll have tons of time. Man, grade 11 is gonna be sweet. Co-op, and 2 computer courses!

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Physics grade 11 is easy, the one that you have to worry about is grade 12. Also how long does your teacher actually teach the lesson? THE WHOLE PERIOD? My teacher in calculus only teaches for 30 minutes MAX, the rest of the time he usually gives out formative quizzes or just lets us do what we want. In grade 10 my math teacher only taught the lesson for maybe 20-25 minutes, and I had no friends in that class so I was forced to do the homework. Also he was also my only high school teacher to ever check for homework completion.

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Wow, my school's quite a bit different then yours. In our school pretty much all the math classes run till the bell. It's usually a lesson for the first 40 minutes or so as he shows the new process/formula and does a few examples thoroughly. And then he fills the rest of class time with examples to drill it into us. Your teacher gave quizzes frequently? We get 1-2 a unit! And also, homework is worth something like 8 percent of our mark! I'm still trying to decide weather to do grade 12 physics or not. Its not compulsory for any of the major universities CS programs, so I'm not sure yet.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
DO NOT TAKE IT! Well I do not like it, I actually have to do work in that class to get a good mark. I do not recommend it. But anyway there are only so many formulas in grade 10 math that you can learn, what is there quadratic formula, sine law, cosine law, what else?

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
There really aren't many concepts in grade 10 come to think of it... We have trig, which is SohCahToa, sine law, cosine law. Parabolas and quadratic functions, which is graphing parabolas, and the quadratic formula stuff. The only other thing left is analytic geometry, which we haven't got to yet. All we've really learned is these formulas, their applications in word problems.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Meh whatever but it seems like there aren't enough math courses in high school, I heard since they took out Grade 13, they took out a few of them, and they really dumbed down the grade 12 calculus course, there isn't integration anymore, and there is only one unit for linear algebra .

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
5 math units in 4 years is good enough for me! As long as by the end of grade 12, I know enough to do well in university math, I'm happy.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Grade 9,10,11, DATA, CALCULUS, ADVANCED FUNCTIONs.... that is 6

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Oh crap, theres 6??? No way im doing 2 grade 12 maths in a semester, im going to switch grade 12 math to next year.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
5 of them are mandatory if you wanna go to University, but Data Mangement looks like it will help a lot, since if you are going to take computer science in university, a lot of topics in data are mandatory courses in Uni

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Tue May 14, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Ya, ill probably end up taking it. Funny how ive never known about data... Im going to make sure my school has it tomorrow.

Author:	randint [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What's the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
I am a slacker taking 3 math courses (MCV4U, MDM4U and MHF4U are at 87, 81 and 88 respectively), and a bad English grade (75). Now, vectors is really screwing me up (only 4 classes in [due to the AP Calculus Exam] and the teacher is giving our class a quiz tomorrow!). I got into Waterloo (w/o co-op) as stated here: I plan on taking Advanced courses though (work hard in the summer), at least CS 135 if Radge does not let me into 145. I know that university math is infinitely harder than high school (I read the assignments, and I have no clue what they even mean...even though I did the AP Calculus AB exam...) Anyhow, this is what happens when you major in math, I suppose.

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
For me my grades for University at the moment are MCV 4U - 96 MDM 4U - 94 MHF 4U - 97 TEJ 4M - 91 ICS 4U - 98 ENG 4U - 61 Soooooo, I will not be getting into Waterloo, but this is enough for guelph so I took it.

Author:	randint [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
My English teacher is hard on everyone, and I suck when writing essays (in this country for 5 years only, that is why - [explained in the AIF too] and I think UW is giving me a place just because of that and AP. Your marks are a lot better than mine, UW is rejecting you on your ENG4U, which is stupid (what about the international students anyways)?

Author:	Panphobia [ Tue May 14, 2013 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Where did you come from, if you don't mind me asking? Yes I know my english mark is not good, but eh I can switch to UW later if I want.

Author:	crossley7 [ Tue May 14, 2013 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Ok, well this should probably be in a different thread but I will make this comment for your benefit about the math assignments and why English is important. First: Waterloo really stresses english because they want people that can organize thoughts and express them in a good manner and that is one thing that english teaches you (albeit not very well at times) so english marks are important. Also, for writing co-op work term reports or essays for electives you have to be able to write well or you will suffer. On the assignments, it makes sense you are clueless right now because there is a lot of new material or material covered differently than it is in high school. They are well structured and challenging at the end of a week in which you were taught the material. I've had assignments due the following friday that I could maybe answer 1 question on but after the next 2-3 classes you have the tools or at least basic knowledge required to approach all the problems and solve most.

Author:	Tony [ Wed May 15, 2013 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
crossley7 @ Tue May 14, 2013 11:10 pm wrote: Also, for writing co-op work term reports or essays for electives you have to be able to write well or you will suffer. More importantly, one needs to be able to communicate their ideas well. You might have a good idea for designing and building a system, and a business around this novel software, but without being able to explain those ideas to the wider community, it would be very difficult to get far.

Author:	Nathan4102 [ Wed May 15, 2013 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Did any of your guy's English mark drop as you progressed through high school? Like I have a 88 right now, but does it get significantly harder in 11 and 12?

Author:	mirhagk [ Wed May 15, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yeah I really wish that the writing English course counted as an English course. It's vitally important to know how to write, and write well, but in my school we only wrote 2 things the entire year, hamburgers (ugly and horrible) style essays, and poetry. I am pretty good at writing essays and reports, but I don't like poetry, and I'm not good at memorizing all the terms for various parts of a story, so I failed on all those sections, while getting really good on the essay writing section. I got almost perfect on the one essay we had that wasn't on critiquing another work, which is probably what they care about (I don't think it matters how well I can analyze shakespeare, or write poetry, as long as I can write essays and reports). So I had pretty much perfect for what they cared about, yet I got 60s in the course, so it looks like I can't write at all.

Author:	Dan [ Wed May 15, 2013 10:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Nathan4102 @ 15th May 2013, 8:48 am wrote: Did any of your guy's English mark drop as you progressed through high school? Like I have a 88 right now, but does it get significantly harder in 11 and 12? For me, my english grades went up as the courses became less about spelling and grammar and more about the ideas you are trying to express (noramly as a response or criticism to a book, article, etc). mirhagk wrote: ...but in my school we only wrote 2 things the entire year, hamburgers (ugly and horrible) style essays, and poetry. I am pretty good at writing essays and reports, but I don't like poetry, and I'm not good at memorizing all the terms for various parts of a story, so I failed on all those sections, while getting really good on the essay writing section. What kind of highschool did you go to? The first highschool I went to (before I moved at the end of grade 11) was horrible and the english teacher had a mental breakdown in class and yet it sounds like it had a better english program than that. At the very least, your ISU should have had you writing more then two things.

Author:	Panphobia [ Wed May 15, 2013 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
Yeaa....if you went to school in Ontario and recently I don't think it is possible to only write two things, let me see. We had a 2000 word essay in the first month on a book we read, that was our ISU. Then we had an 800-900 word persuasive essay. Then we had 1000 word essay on a topic in the book Frankenstein. THEN we had a 1200 word essay on King Lear (Shakespeare). Errmmmm then we had to write like 2 argumentative essays, and for our final exam we had to write an essay, sooo we didn't even have poetry in grade 12.

Author:	randint [ Wed May 15, 2013 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:What\'s the cheapest and fastest way to get a university degree?
English is what is killing my average, even though my other courses are not good. But still, I do not have to take any of those in Waterloo, which helps significantly.

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