Computer Science Canada Gaming Computers |
| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Gaming Computers |
I am looking into building a kickass gaming computer, and I was just wondering, if somone could double check my spec's, its been a while and I just want a second opinion. Here are the spec's: Quote: Computer Price List (US Dollars, price listings from http://www.newegg.com/ as of 9/26/05)
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX - Retail Price: $289.00 COOLER MASTER CAV-T01-WWC Silver/Blue ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply - Retail Price: $74.99 Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 8 (7.1) Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM Price: $70.00 Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM Price: $79.99 ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Price: $164.00 ViewSonic VG910S Silver 19" 25ms LCD Monitor - Retail Price: $359.99 PLEXTOR Black IDE DVD Burner Model PX-716AL/SW - Retail Price: $145.49 Steel Pad 20062 3.5mm Connector Professional Gaming Headset - Retail Price: $109.00 Saitek Gamers' Keyboard PZ08A 2-Tone USB Wired Sleek contemporary Keyboard - Retail Price: $43.00 Logitech MX518 931352-0403 2-Tone 8 Buttons 1x Wheel USB + PS/2 Optical Mouse - Retail Price: $39.89 TRENDnet TEG-PCITXR 10/100/1000Mbps PCI Network Adapter - Retail Price: $20.00 eVGA 256-P2-N376-AX Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail Price: $299.00 KINGMAX Super ram 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model MPXC22D-38 - OEM Price: $41.99 Total: $1778.33 In Canadian: $2,088.74 I use newegg.com for prices, I know there are others but newegg.com seems to be the cheapest. Please post your Idea's and thoughts and also vote in the poll! |
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| Author: | timmytheturtle [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:20 pm ] |
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I say you should go with 1GB of ram, otherwise it seems like a good comptuer. I wish I had a good computer |
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| Author: | md [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:37 pm ] |
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I agree with timmy; 512 isn't nearly enough memory. I'd actually recommend going for 2gb though as you really don't realize just how much you use. As for the keyboard, headset, powersupply and sound card I'd recommend going for cheaper versions which will get the job done. Unless you're a serious audiophile and your running some kick ass speakers (and I mean kick ass... $5000-$10000 range) you're just waisting money that could better be spent on more ram, more storage, a faster proccessor, or another SLI card. The LCD might also be a bit of an issue; you'll probably be fine but you will notice some ghosting if you play a FPS and are moving fast. I have a 19" 25ms LCD myself and it is noticable, though just barely. |
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| Author: | timmytheturtle [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:46 pm ] |
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Something else I noticed is, you don't really need a 145$ DVD Burner, stores around were I live sell good branded DVD burners for cheap (around 60$) |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:25 pm ] |
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All computers suck when it comes to gaming. 2 weeks from now it'll be outdated. That's true for any week of the year. |
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| Author: | timmytheturtle [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:53 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: All computers suck when it comes to gaming. 2 weeks from now it'll be outdated. That's true for any week of the year.
Mine was outdated before I even got it. Damn dell |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:01 pm ] |
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Whoops, there is suppose to be 1GB its in the cost just not on the list. Why would you not go have you seen the headset I am talking about. It uses USB sound which is as good as Dobly Digtail for alot less money, The power supply comes with the case, so that is a problem they are very few good cases that come without them, the problem is the back of the mother board and what it will fit into. The sound card is good becasue i mix music for games, but I will consider that becasue USB sound doesn't need one, But I have to check if it works for mixing sounds and such. Whats wrong with LCD, its ethier that or CRT and LCD is 10000 times better, o ya I don't play FPS. I was thinking maybe more RAM, becaus each 512 stick is like 40 bucks (U.S). Ya I think your right about the DvD burner, I didn't relise that, I am more worried about the case and motherboard fitting together, and that my processer does not coem with T.I.M. Notoroge, honestly I think you need a reality check, or read something, that has long died out about computers, The next big processer coming and has come is the duel processer. and it will take aleast 2 years for games to make full use of it, so right, o yes and the DDR2 won't be effective ethier for awhile. Nvidia doesn't have any major products out in the next year and nethier does Creative Labs, so for aleast a year I am well off, with the exception of not having an 850$ processer. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:35 pm ] |
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why would you get an pci NIC? im sure the asus motherboard comes with integrated lan... also, you're cheaping out on ram.. if ur building a kick ass system, dont cheap out ram, buy something good like corsair or samsung, and try to get heat spreaders if you can. what exactly is your budget? maybe the people on this forum can find you something better for the buck. Also, notice the case only comes with a 380w psu? if u plan to go sli, there is no freaking way that's enuff.. even with a single gpu, u mite end up with power problems |
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| Author: | lyam_kaskade [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:53 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: Notoroge, honestly I think you need a reality check, or read something, that has long died out about computers, The next big processer coming and has come is the duel processer. and it will take aleast 2 years for games to make full use of it, so right, o yes and the DDR2 won't be effective ethier for awhile. Nvidia doesn't have any major products out in the next year and nethier does Creative Labs, so for aleast a year I am well off, with the exception of not having an 850$ processer. And yet, his point is valid. If you wanted something for gaming, a platform system would be far superior, and only a fraction of the cost. But it's your money. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:03 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: All computers suck when it comes to gaming. 2 weeks from now it'll be outdated. That's true for any week of the year.
If you mean that there is something slightly better out then, yes. If not, I am sure that at one point in the near future they will stop making games that require much more computer power. Look at half life 2, you already get motion sickness at a rate that other games never had, and that's just one reason. Games are not meant to be realistic for the most part, which is leading me to this line of thinking. I may be completely wrong, but that is my off topic brainstorm. |
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| Author: | timmytheturtle [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:41 pm ] |
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[Gandalf] wrote: Look at half life 2, you already get motion sickness at a rate that other games never had
The motion sickness I got from HL2 was the reason it took me almost 2 weeks to beat. Were other games (like COD) only take me about 30 hrs. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:50 pm ] |
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Alright, let's make things cheap so that they break and people have to buy more! Oh, that's already being done  .
Seriously, that has nothing to do with game time, nor should it. There are many games that take longer without motion sickness  . It shouldn't be a good thing. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:14 pm ] |
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http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer.ars |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:47 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: Whoops, there is suppose to be 1GB its in the cost just not on the list. Why would you not go have you seen the headset I am talking about. It uses USB sound which is as good as Dobly Digtail for alot less money, The power supply comes with the case, so that is a problem they are very few good cases that come without them, the problem is the back of the mother board and what it will fit into. The sound card is good becasue i mix music for games, but I will consider that becasue USB sound doesn't need one, But I have to check if it works for mixing sounds and such.
I'd avoid a USB sound solution. USB is a software based interface, which means that the processor is used (at least in part) to transfer information to and from the USB components; and probably is used to do much of the work that dedicated hardware does in most soundcards. I wasn't saying you should get a really cheap card... just a cheaper one so that you can get more ram... As for the head set; really anything with a decent mic and headphones will work fine. You can get one that is more then good enough for any VOIP for < $50. As for LCD vs. CTR; really it's a matter of personal preference (I like my LCD  ) but like I said they do suffer ghosting sometimes. If your not a really big FPS player though then that really doesn't affect you so by all means splurge on the LCD  |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:34 pm ] |
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Ok, I haven been able to get on for awhile, is it just me or has compsci been down alot lately, not crashed but just reachable. This is my new list. Computer Price List (US Dollars, price listings from http://www.newegg.com/ as of 9/26/05) AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX - Retail Price: $289.00 ATRIX CSCI-C8023-C43 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 480W Power Supply - Retail Price: $48.00 Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM Price: $79.99 ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Price: $164.00 3G Technology GM170B Black 17" 30ms LCD Monitor - Retail Price: $233.99 LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model SOHD-16P9SBLK - Retail Price: $19.99 Steel Pad 20062 3.5mm Connector Professional Gaming Headset - Retail Price: $109.00 Saitek Gamers' Keyboard PZ08A 2-Tone USB Wired Sleek contemporary Keyboard - Retail Price: $43.00 Logitech MX518 931352-0403 2-Tone 8 Buttons 1x Wheel USB + PS/2 Optical Mouse - Retail Price: $39.89 eVGA 256-P2-N376-AX Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail Price: $299.00 Creative Sound Blaster Live! 24bit 70SB041000000 8 (7.1) Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail Price: $39.99 Kingston Value RAM 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model KVR400X64C3AK2/1G - Retail Price: $87.55 Rosewill RFA80L-B 80mm Sleeve Blue LED Light Case Cooling Fan - Retail (x3) Price: $2.99 ($8.97) Thermaltake A1442 DuctingMod for 80mm CPU Fan - Retail Price: 4.99 BELKIN F8E066 Professional Computer Tool Kit (36-Piece) - Retail Price: $31.49 Total: $1488.85 In Canadian: $1,753.22 For anyone who doesn't knwo I am building this form scratch becasue it is cheaper. ALl places charge an arm and two legs for building it becasue it isn;t aleays easy. I have fixed alot of things, and some more comments USB sound card has its own mini processer, and draws from the sound card naything else. It is a higher quality sound than speakers. You will notice I added extra's fans to help peopel clue on that this is a do it yourself project. I am also making this computer upgrade easy, everyhting can be replaced or added to it, after a little while I wil add a second video card and upgrade to a dule core processer once they can be used better and cheaper. Also I will be adding another GB of ram, I am trying to keep this cheap and good, its not easy. but 1750 CND is really good and most people can afford it. One last thing why would a platform system be cheaper??? EDIT: On the headset part, I am not looking for a cheap VOIP solution, i what top quality sound, I have try them before and it will blow you away, it is recommended by every m,ajor ratings website and magizine! |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:32 pm ] |
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If it were me, I'd skip on the "Computer Tool kit." My dad would already have all of those tools, but even if you don't the only thing you'd need is one (or two, for size variety) screwdrivers. I suppose the wrist strap could be useful, but it's more fun to leave it up to chance! 
And may I ask, when has anybody ever used an allen key with a computer? Computer desk, computer chair, sure. But never, in my experience, the computer itself. Also, I don't know how concerned you are with bling-factor but personally I'd probably get tired of that bright light on the front of the case unless the case itself was far below eye level. Aside from that, it looks pretty cool aside from it being more than I would spend on a case (but don't get me wrong, that seems like a fairly normal price from what I see). EDIT: As for the console system, for considerably less money you're getting approximately the same, if not better (I would think) performance. Consoles don't upgrade hardware and can last several years. Computers seem to expect you to upgrade every few months (PCIe? Hell no, brutha). And then you can get a cheap computer that does what you need a computer to do. EDIT2: And since we're all honest consumers, you can't really argue getting games for free.  |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaming Computers |
StarGateSG-1's first list wrote: ViewSonic VG910S Silver 19" 25ms LCD Monitor - Retail Price: $359.99 StarGateSG-1's new list wrote: 3G Technology GM170B Black 17" 30ms LCD Monitor - Retail Price: $233.99 Ideally, you want the size to go up, the response-time to go down, and the proce to go down. 1 for 3! You seem to have plenty of money, especially if you're building a gaming computer just before going to university. In that case, why not get a good monitor? You're going to be staring at it a lot. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:43 pm ] |
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17" LCD - 1280x1024 19" LCD - 1280x1024 The decision is not that hard. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:45 pm ] |
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yep.. the 17" obviously... |
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| Author: | wtd [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:55 pm ] |
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Tighter pixel concentrations = extra brightness for free. |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:44 am ] |
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See you think I have alot of money to through around, I don't, I set $2000 max and I am well under, i don;t wnat to go over, but like I said I will add in the future, I case has an LCD screen on the front with inside temp of the CPU, Vidoe Card and other things. I went with the 17' becasue I have used one as long as I have had a computer and it doesn't make a different, It was also recommeded to me by THE computer Mechanics,  bigger isn't always better they say! 
And with the screen if I can loan more money it might go up in size, but I am going to be making a down payment to my parents and paying back a loan! Interest Free mind you! |
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| Author: | codemage [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:32 am ] |
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How much are you going to be charged on shipping? I ran through approximately similar systems on canadian sites and came to around $2000 CDN (etccomputer.ca and tigerdirect.ca), so you're getting a decent deal as long as you aren't gouged when they send it to you. |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:16 am ] |
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Shippings FREE!!!!! yippie, my secert though, I have secert Contacts, Or maybe not, I just get it through a friend who lives close, I can drive there to get it. O yes I swtiched the moniter, It is now a 17' with 12ms for only $299.00, I never answered this before but, I wnat my own tool kit, ya sure my dad had soem tools and so do I, But I want my own nice tool kit. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:47 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX - Retail Price: $289.00 ATRIX CSCI-C8023-C43 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 480W Power Supply - Retail Price: $48.00 Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM Price: $79.99 ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Price: $164.00 3G Technology GM170B Black 17" 30ms LCD Monitor - Retail Price: $233.99 LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model SOHD-16P9SBLK - Retail Price: $19.99 Steel Pad 20062 3.5mm Connector Professional Gaming Headset - Retail Price: $109.00 Saitek Gamers' Keyboard PZ08A 2-Tone USB Wired Sleek contemporary Keyboard - Retail Price: $43.00 Logitech MX518 931352-0403 2-Tone 8 Buttons 1x Wheel USB + PS/2 Optical Mouse - Retail Price: $39.89 eVGA 256-P2-N376-AX Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail Price: $299.00 Creative Sound Blaster Live! 24bit 70SB041000000 8 (7.1) Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail Price: $39.99 Kingston Value RAM 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model KVR400X64C3AK2/1G - Retail Price: $87.55 Rosewill RFA80L-B 80mm Sleeve Blue LED Light Case Cooling Fan - Retail (x3) Price: $2.99 ($8.97) Thermaltake A1442 DuctingMod for 80mm CPU Fan - Retail Price: 4.99 BELKIN F8E066 Professional Computer Tool Kit (36-Piece) - Retail Price: $31.49 Total: $1488.85 In Canadian: $1,753.22 General comments: Get a better CPU Get a better video card Drop the sound card - it's kind of an el-cheapo sound card, frankly, and the motherboard's integrated sound is quite likely better than it. Get a cheaper keyboard - that keyboard is not worht the money you're spending on it. Get a much cheaper headset - that headset is extremely overpriced. If you're really concerned about sound quality, get separate headphones, and get a separate mic. It'll be cheaper, and better quality - those Steelpads are basically a vanity product. If you're really concerned about gaming well, your hardware is basically good for it, but you forgot something critical: a mousepad. Your desk, or your normal generic pad are not up to the standard of the mouse you're buying. Get a better pad. That keyboard, while it advertises itself as a gaming keyboard, will not improve your gaming much, if at all. I would skip on it. Skip the tool kit as well - all you really need for a good computer repair kit (unless you're looking to spend 100s of dollars on diagnostic equipment and the like) is a good multiple-head screwdriver. Finally, you need to be aware of something: Newegg doesn't ship to Canada. On top of that, companies that do ship to Canada don't charge taxes, so taxes will be charged at the border, along with a significant brokering fee for the package. if you buy from a Canadian company, taxes will be charged. Expect your total to go rather a fair bit up. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:39 pm ] |
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since when is an a64 3700+ cpu with 1mb of l2 cache not good enuff? i mean not everyone here has the money to buy an FX-55 or an X2.. and wtf are you out of your mind? a geforce 6800GT isnt a good enuff gpu? my only concern is once again the ram.. spend 50 more bux on the ram, and you'll get alot more performace.. remember: heat spreaders = good |
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| Author: | MihaiG [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:28 pm ] |
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ya id have to agree on andy with that.... u can alwasy get a AMD 2x 4600 i heard those are nice... or if u want to blow 600 on a video card get a Raedon x850  now thats gonna be a kick ass machine
u can alway buy a out of date cray i hear there about 10k now a days... those will rune well too |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:21 pm ] |
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elcomandante is no longer supreme newbcake, he is something normal! 
Any athlon 3200+ is enough for any game, and it will be for a little bit of time yet, gforce6800 is more than enough, and 512 ram is decent, but for gaming 1gb is better. Basically, I agree with what everyone else said. I don't even know why you need such a good computer for gaming if you are not going to play fps games. I may be a bit wrong here, but I haven't seen many other kinds of games have huge requirements... Even things like WoW, etc. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:44 pm ] |
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Andy wrote: since when is an a64 3700+ cpu with 1mb of l2 cache not good enuff? i mean not everyone here has the money to buy an FX-55 or an X2.. and wtf are you out of your mind? a geforce 6800GT isnt a good enuff gpu? my only concern is once again the ram.. spend 50 more bux on the ram, and you'll get alot more performace.. remember: heat spreaders = good
pay some attention - i didn't say it wasn't good enough. however, he is wasting money on frivolous stuff that isn't going to improve his gaming experience very much at all (trust me, I've tried that headset - not worth it, and that keyboard - not either). this extra money can go back into his cpu and video card, since i'm guessnig he wants to future-proof at least a bit. frankly, heat spreaders are almost useless - you have to do some hardcore OCing on your memory to make them even close to necessary. my post wasn't: spend more money. it was: drop the random stuff that doesn't help your gaming, and put the extra cash back into stuff that does. so chill out. btw, he is looking to build a "kickass gaming computer" (his words). not a "good enough" gaming computer. so i gave him the redistribution (in my view) of cash in his parts that would give him the most kickass rig. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:23 pm ] |
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he has a budget of 2k.. wtf kinda processor are u gona get him. x2 costs in the thousands, plus hes not trying to set a new record in 3dmark score, he needs something that can generate fps on the game so that he sees no blemishes in the graphics.. and by upgrading from a 3700+ to an x2 will increase performance, but not drastic nuff to justify the change and elfagador, stfu, you know nothing about hardware, a radeon x850 would be an increase to the 6800 GT, but it has no upgrading capabilities, look at the benchmarks for the two, there is a tiny difference, but its not significant enuff to justisfy a loss in upgrading capabilities.. why else would he get an sli mobo |
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| Author: | wtd [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:28 pm ] |
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Buy a decent rig rather than an mazing one. Use the money you save for games. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:31 pm ] |
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wtd wrote: Buy a decent rig rather than an mazing one. Use the money you save for games. my point exactly.. what he has is a nice little set up already, hes gona game on it, and hes gona game on it well. |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Change of List |
Well, It doesn't matter much any more becasue I have revamped the entire list, I will post it here rather than at the top. It is not completely canadian and I have worked out alot of bugs. Except one, which may or may not work out, i can't seem to find info on whether my MOBO comes with a hard drive cable becasue the hard drive is OEM and theregfore doesn't. Money for games isn't a problem, me and my brother both play the same games and therefore we have a deal, he buys games I buy the computer, it works nicely. The list is complete with an OS which wasn't included last time. I dropped the tool kit. I changed most of the stuff, about that, and you peopel need to read my posts, i fixed that mistake the price was always including 1024MB RAM just i forgot to record that. Quote: Computer Parts List (Prices are www.tigerdirect.ca as of 9/29/05)
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ / 512KB Cache / 2000MHz FSB / Socket 939 / Venice Core/ Processor with Fan Price: $323.99 Asus A8N SLI Deluxe nVidia Socket 939 Motherboard / PCI Express / Audio / Dual Gigabit LAN / Serial ATA / Dual RAID / USB 2.0 & Firewire Price: $222.99 XFX GeForce 6800 GT / 256MB DDR3 / PCI Express / SLI / Dual DVI / TV Out / Video Card Price: $398.99 Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy LS 5.1 PCI Sound Card (OEM) Price: $33.99 Maxtor / DiamondMax 10 / 200GB / 7200 / 8MB / ATA-133 / EIDE / OEM / Hard Drive Price: $134.99 Kingston Dual Channel 1024MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz Memory (2 x 512MB) Price: $144.99 Aspire Black/Black X-Plorer ATX Mid-Tower Case with Clear Side, Fan Controller, Front USB and Firewire Port Price: $84.99 Megavision MV177 / 17" / 8ms / SXGA / 1280x1024 / Black / LCD Monitor Price: $282.99 Xion / 500-Watt / ATX / 140mm Fan / SATA-Ready / 20 and 24-Pin / Titanium Coating / Power Supply Price: $87.99 LG GDR-8163B / 16x DVD-ROM / 52x CD-ROM / Black / DVD-ROM Drive Price: $33.99 LTB AC97 True 5.1 Surround Sound Headphone with Microphone Price: $59.99 Diablo Illuminated PS/2 Keyboard (Black) Price: $40.99 Diablo Black PS/2 Optical Mouse with Illuminated Scroll Wheel Price: $13.99 Aerocool UV Led (Blue/Blue) 80MM Case Fan (x2) Price: $9.99 CyberPower 615 / 6-Outlet / 900 Joules / Surge Suppressor Price: $9.99 Microsoft Windows XP Home Upgrade Serv. Pack 2 Price: $133.99 Total Price: $1936.91 With Taxes: $2227.45 I have a 2K buget without taxes> |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:51 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: Notoroge, honestly I think you need a reality check, or read something, that has long died out about computers, The next big processer coming and has come is the duel processer. and it will take aleast 2 years for games to make full use of it, so right, o yes and the DDR2 won't be effective ethier for awhile. Nvidia doesn't have any major products out in the next year and nethier does Creative Labs, so for aleast a year I am well off, with the exception of not having an 850$ processer. I love how people always get my jokes. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:53 pm ] |
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Game cost? That's next to nothing  .
Nice computer, although I can't see why you need it. 2x512 RAM is cheaper, but you might run out of slots if you want 4gb. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:01 pm ] |
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512 meg sticks also have better latency. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:08 pm ] |
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1of42 wrote: 512 meg sticks also have better latency. No... RAM sticks with higher clock-speeds have better latency.
(I know what you mean; "It's better to just have one 512 stick instead of two 256's". I just didn't like your wording. ) |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:45 pm ] |
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Ok, on RAM, why would I go spend like 200 dollars on a 1 GB stick of RAM when I get 2x512 for less. No gaming computer in the world needs 4GB, there isn't even a game with a min requirement of 1Gb RAM yet, 4 GB's won't be needed for a long time. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:40 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: Ok, on RAM, why would I go spend like 200 dollars on a 1 GB stick of RAM when I get 2x512 for less. No gaming computer in the world needs 4GB, there isn't even a game with a min requirement of 1Gb RAM yet, 4 GB's won't be needed for a long time. You said it. "Minimum Requirements". But you can't play a game with all graphics maxed out running solely on "Minimum Requirements", can you? Doom 3 alone requires 512MBs to render max-graphics, and that's not smoothly. That's just so it has enough memory to not crash. And as to why you would get a 1GB stick instead of 2x512's is for performance. That's the whole point of a gaming computer, isn't it? Performance? What this entire thread is about? |
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| Author: | Andy [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:10 am ] |
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i got two sticks of 1 gig on my laptop and i dont regret it at all |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:12 am ] |
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Well, Lucky for me I don;t like DOOM 3. I play stragety and RPG's not FPS (I hate them) So this in a sense is my computer design for my type of games, not yours. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: Well, Lucky for me I don;t like DOOM 3. I play stragety and RPG's not FPS (I hate them) So this in a sense is my computer design for my type of games, not yours. Okay, then don't buy a "Gaming Computer"; All you need is a cheap $500 Dell to play those. A gaming computer is wasted on you. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:09 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: 1of42 wrote: 512 meg sticks also have better latency. No... RAM sticks with higher clock-speeds have better latency.
(I know what you mean; "It's better to just have one 512 stick instead of two 256's". I just didn't like your wording. )Between RAM sticks of the same clock-speed, 512 sticks have better performance. It's a proven fact - the density on 1 gig sticks is much higher, and performance suffers as a result. *edit* And yes, Notoroge is entirely correct in his latter post - if you're not playing FPS games, a gaming computer is basically a waste. RTS games have nowhere near the requirements, nor do they have the high stakes if something is low-grade on your rig - slightly lower FPS or a slight slowdown occasionally in an RTS have nowhere near the effect they do in an FPS. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:28 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: StarGateSG-1 wrote: Well, Lucky for me I don;t like DOOM 3. I play stragety and RPG's not FPS (I hate them) So this in a sense is my computer design for my type of games, not yours. Okay, then don't buy a "Gaming Computer"; All you need is a cheap $500 Dell to play those. A gaming computer is wasted on you.Exactly my point. You don't need this computer for what you are going to be doing. [Gandalf] wrote: I don't even know why you need such a good computer for gaming if you are not going to play fps games. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:11 am ] |
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I like my post better, though; it's more condescending. |
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| Author: | MyPistolsIn3D [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:00 pm ] |
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Try these guys... www.yesplay.com Its where i bought my new computer |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:22 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: I like my post better, though; it's more condescending.
Notoroge wrote: A gaming computer is wasted on you.
Ah, but isn't that a good thing? Isn't it good if gaming computers are wasted on one, thereby meaning that one does not play such video games? |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:53 pm ] |
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Cervantes wrote: Notoroge wrote: I like my post better, though; it's more condescending.
Notoroge wrote: A gaming computer is wasted on you.
Ah, but isn't that a good thing? Isn't it good if gaming computers are wasted on one, thereby meaning that one does not play such video games? |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:14 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: No, that's like buying a Lamborghini in Canada. Why would you get a car that beastly if you're never going to push it further than 120KM/h? It's a waste of money, and a waste of resources on something that's not necessary.
I think you missed my point. I agree with you that he shouldn't buy such a computer. I just have different reasons. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:10 pm ] |
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Cervantes wrote: Notoroge wrote: No, that's like buying a Lamborghini in Canada. Why would you get a car that beastly if you're never going to push it further than 120KM/h? It's a waste of money, and a waste of resources on something that's not necessary.
I think you missed my point. I agree with you that he shouldn't buy such a computer. I just have different reasons. |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:52 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: he's still playing useless games."
'Useless video games' is a pseudo-oxymoron. That's my point. Gaming computers in general are a waste of money. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:37 am ] |
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Cervantes wrote: Notoroge wrote: he's still playing useless games."
'Useless video games' is a pseudo-oxymoron. That's my point. Gaming computers in general are a waste of money. Not if you're into playing FPS games at a high enough level that you need very good performance they're not. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:06 am ] |
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Cervantes wrote: Notoroge wrote: he's still playing useless games."
'Useless video games' is a pseudo-oxymoron. That's my point. Quote: Gaming computers in general are a waste of money. Why? "Gaming Computers" is just a general name for "Really Ass-Kick Performance Computers". When you can find good use for such a computer, I say go ahead and buy it (be it for entertainment value, with video games that require such performance, or something else like high level Maya, Photoshop, or video editing).
But what possible use is he going to have for such a computer? "OMFG! Look how fast Microsoft Word loads on this beast!" |
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| Author: | StarGateSG-1 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:48 pm ] |
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My favour game out there knocks the socks of DOOM 3 and whatever crap, it is Earth 2160, it uses a better more complex engine than doom 3, it has FPS graphics with a non FPS game. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:08 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: My favour game out there knocks the socks of DOOM 3 and whatever crap, it is Earth 2160, it uses a better more complex engine than doom 3, it has FPS graphics with a non FPS game. Do I care? You're still a newb. If you want to buy the computer, go right ahead. It's not my money. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:36 pm ] |
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lol i still remember sg1 talking shit about knowing how to program back in the day... good times |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:30 pm ] |
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StarGateSG-1 wrote: My favour game out there knocks the socks of DOOM 3 and whatever crap, it is Earth 2160, it uses a better more complex engine than doom 3, it has FPS graphics with a non FPS game.
The thing is, what do you lose if you experience a slight slowdown in your FPS? Nothing. It's an RTS for god's sakes. What do you lose if your visibility is slightly worse because you can't run the graphics as well as could be? Nothing, it's an RTS. No matter how complex the engine, RTS games do not have the high stakes that FPS games do - you get a slowdown in an FPS, you're done in the majority of cases. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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You shouldn't get a console, or PC just for one game. I keep telling that to all those Halo-fools, and I am saying it again. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:19 pm ] |
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1of42 wrote: StarGateSG-1 wrote: My favour game out there knocks the socks of DOOM 3 and whatever crap, it is Earth 2160, it uses a better more complex engine than doom 3, it has FPS graphics with a non FPS game.
The thing is, what do you lose if you experience a slight slowdown in your FPS? Nothing. It's an RTS for god's sakes. What do you lose if your visibility is slightly worse because you can't run the graphics as well as could be? Nothing, it's an RTS. No matter how complex the engine, RTS games do not have the high stakes that FPS games do - you get a slowdown in an FPS, you're done in the majority of cases. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:59 pm ] |
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Hello, time to go back and do some more reading of my posts: I didn't say they had low requirements! What I said was this: RTS games may have high requirements. The thing is, what happens if you get slightly low FPS in an RTS game? Nothing. I'm sure everyone who plays Starcraft can remember those games which were so laggy that there was a half-second delay between each frame updating, because I sure as hell can. Now what did that do t gameplay? Make it less fun? Sure. Did it make people play appreciably worse? Not very much. (this according to my own playing level during those games, and those of many people I played with - it was generally agreed that the games blew, but nobody actually played much worse). For high-level gamers, under 30 FPS in a shooter is absolutely unacceptable - for me, I perform at roughly 25% capacity when my FPS drops below 20, and even at 30-40 I'm not playing very well. So for FPS gamers, a performance computer is necessary to play at full capacity. For RTS gamers, it's just gravy. That is why SG1 doesn't need a high-end gaming comptuer to play RTSs. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:59 pm ] |
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uh-huh... obviously you don't play much RTS games.. (well the latest ones anyways.. not the old StarCraft)... gravy geez...  |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:10 pm ] |
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30 f.. p.. s.. ? ... WTF!? ... Anything below 250FPS is unacceptable. If you're doing 30FPS in Quake, you start noticing sh!t teleport all around you. It depends on how fast-paced the game is. RTS's tend to have a slower game play, and the FPS on one computer is (usually) directly linked to the other players (so if one player is lagging, other players get that pretty "time out" screen a la' Warcraft III. Game is balanced out.); but in Quake, you lagged, you're fragged. And that can really grind your gears, especially if you're into the whole Quake-con thing. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:16 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: uh-huh... obviously you don't play much RTS games.. (well the latest ones anyways.. not the old StarCraft)... gravy geez...
Yes I do. Notoroge wrote: 30 f.. p.. s.. ?
... WTF!? ... Anything below 250FPS is unacceptable. If you're doing 30FPS in Quake, you start noticing sh!t teleport all around you. It depends on how fast-paced the game is. RTS's tend to have a slower game play, and the FPS on one computer is (usually) directly linked to the other players (so if one player is lagging, other players get that pretty "time out" screen a la' Warcraft III. Game is balanced out.); but in Quake, you lagged, you're fragged. And that can really grind your gears, especially if you're into the whole Quake-con thing. I hope you're joking. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:47 pm ] |
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1of42 wrote: I hope you're joking. No? |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:59 pm ] |
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Does your monitor even refresh that often? |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:05 pm ] |
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lol, 99 fps is fine for me. The Q3 games I play (not Q3, or Q3 arena) are limited at either 100fps for some and 125fps for others. Generally, 30 fps means lag, but it's still playable although you may get the occasional 'jump' (more often related to server lag). I was watching the QuakeCon Finals, and those people must play all day... Dang... In either case, you can lower the settings to (for an fps) no atmospheric effects (rain, snow, etc), no brass, and those kinds of things. This makes it playable on even a fairly crappy computer. Besides, anything above say, 150? is just "I have an amazing computer that can play Q3 at 500fps at, how about you?". It doesn't make any gameplay difference. |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:10 pm ] |
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Coutsos wrote: Does your monitor even refresh that often? Furthermore, does your eye even refresh that often? In other words, is it humanly possible to detect 250fps? Are you guys talking about how many visual updates there are per second, or how many time the main loop runs per second, with graphics dependant only on time, not on executions of the loop? |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:13 pm ] |
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Cervantes wrote: how many time the main loop runs per second, with graphics dependant only on time, not on executions of the loop |
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| Author: | codemage [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:38 am ] |
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Quote: Furthermore, does your eye even refresh that often?
In other words, is it humanly possible to detect 250fps? It's been scientifically proven that the eye can detect up to 220, and theoretically the uppper limit on the FPS that the eye can detect is related to the speed of neuro-electrical impulses along the optic nerve ( - WAY faster than 220 FPS on a digital device). However, I doubt anything over about 100 FPS would have any measureable, tangible effect on your gaming quality. I'd still own you. 8) |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:12 am ] |
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codemage wrote: It's been scientifically proven that the eye can detect up to 220
That's just it - detect. And while you feel the difference between 60Hz and 80Hz refresh, it's not right away and on a deeper down "ouch, my eyes hurt, something must be wrong" level. Otherwise eyes retain the image for 1/30th or so of a second. I suppose that's where the 30 FPS benchmark comes in from - bare minimum that keeps up with your eyes. Anything lower and you begin noticing slowdown in image update. 220 FPS just manages to have 7 times as many images to make highspeed action more detailed. Though.. check your monitor refresh rate to see if that keeps up. |
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| Author: | shag [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:00 pm ] |
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Quake III Arena rules my pants. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:15 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: Cervantes wrote: how many time the main loop runs per second, with graphics dependant only on time, not on executions of the loop That's not FPS though Notoroge. FPS is Frames of animation per Second. Additionally, in FPS games, the kind of thing you appear to have been referring to is also affected by a slew of different factors, like the server tickrate etc. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:36 pm ] |
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1of42 wrote: Notoroge wrote: Cervantes wrote: how many time the main loop runs per second, with graphics dependant only on time, not on executions of the loop That's not FPS though Notoroge. FPS is Frames of animation per Second. Additionally, in FPS games, the kind of thing you appear to have been referring to is also affected by a slew of different factors, like the server tickrate etc. But yeah, I think I quoted the wrong part of that sentence. |
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| Author: | 1of42 [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:52 pm ] |
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Right, that's why I said I find it worse to play below 30 FPS. That's not to say its impossible thuogh - I know very good UT2004 comp players who are generally around 25 FPS. Personally, anything above 60 is good, above 90 I can't distinguish any more. I was thinking you were joking, Notoroge, because 250 FPS is SO MUCH more than necessary for smooth play that I was amazed you considered it a necessity. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:33 pm ] |
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125 FPS is a standard, but 250 = Awsome. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:40 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: 125 FPS is a standard, but 250 = Awsome.
A standard limit I think you mean to say. If you expect to get that much on a game like Q4, accounting for the multiplayer, you will most probably be disappointed... |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:45 pm ] |
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[Gandalf] wrote: Notoroge wrote: 125 FPS is a standard, but 250 = Awsome.
A standard limit I think you mean to say. If you expect to get that much on a game like Q4, accounting for the multiplayer, you will most probably be disappointed... |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:48 pm ] |
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Well... if you really want to go for a nice computer... I wonder if you'll be able to find a server that doesn't cap that 125fps. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:55 pm ] |
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[Gandalf] wrote: Well... if you really want to go for a nice computer... I wonder if you'll be able to find a server that doesn't cap that 125fps. Heh, servers send the same information regardless, it's up to the computer to render that stuff. |
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