Computer Science Canada

are there free programing languages
Author:  Shyfire [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  are there free programing languages
hi im trying to find a good free programming language
any suggestions
Author:  wtd [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ruby
O'Caml
Python
Haskell
Lisp
Scheme
Ada
C
C++
Objective-C
Java
D
Eiffel
Javascript
Perl
Groovy
C#
Sh
Bash
Csh
Zsh
Ksh
Pascal
Oberon
Modula
ABC
Awk

You have a substantial number of choices when it comes to free languages.
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
*cough*anythingotherthanTuring*cough*
Author:  rizzix [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
ehm.. there's a lot more non-free langs than just Turing.. but the good ones are usually free Wink
Author:  wtd [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
rizzix wrote:
ehm.. there's a lot more non-free langs than just Turing.. but the good ones are usually free Wink


Well, also you need to understand the difference between the language and the tools. For instance, C# is a "free language". Microsoft's Visual Studio, designed specifically to work with C#, however, is not free by any stretch of the imagination.

Similarly, Eiffel is a free language, but you can pay as much as $50,000 for a license for the better commercial compilers. Ada95 has free tools, and yet you can pay tens of thousands for commercial compilers. G++ is a fine compiler, but Intel's C and C++ compilers cost hundreds or thousands for licenses.
Author:  Hikaru79 [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:39 am ]
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Is it even possible to have a "non-free language"? I mean, if you seperate the language from its tools, it is nothing more than a concept, an idea, a protocol, a methodology. For example, Sun refuses to release the source to their Java compiler, and they have said they do not support efforts to write alternative implementations in the interest of not fragmenting the language, but it seems there's nothing they can legally do against GCJ, Jikes, the soon-to-be Harmony, or any of the dozens of other JVM's.

So, is it actually legally possible to limit the freedom on a language itself? I can understand compilers, tools, libraries, etc., but the actual syntax, etc, of any language seems to me to be off-limits.
Author:  rizzix [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:42 am ]
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yes they can.. gcj is not java.. gcj compiles java.. harmony is java.. harmony is liscenced by sun to confrom to the J2SE specs.. =/ you see what i mean.. hence harmony is soo important to the opensource world.. it's the only opensource J2SE implementation out there.

edit: jikes is just another another java compiler.. it works with your current implementation of java.. (SUN's J2SE)
Author:  Hikaru79 [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:46 am ]
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rizzix wrote:
yes they can.. gcj is not java.. gcj compiles java
I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean. If we take 'Java' to refer solely to Sun's implementation, then of course it is not. But it compiles Java source to bytecode (among other things) according to specification, so I don't understand why GCJ isn't Java, but Harmony is. Explain please? Embarassed
Author:  rizzix [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:47 am ]
Post subject: 
it is certified by SUN Razz simple as that. Wink

edit: but ur still confusing the implementation from the compiler.. i believe.. gcj uses the GNU Classpath (a j2se implementation) unfortunatly it's not complete (and neither is it certified).. hence it does not conform to (well at least the latest) java implementation available.
Author:  Hikaru79 [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:52 am ]
Post subject: 
rizzix wrote:
it is certified by SUN Razz simple as that. Wink

Ah, I see. Legal reasons, then Smile
rizzix wrote:
edit: but ur still confusing the implementation from the compiler.. i believe.. gcj uses the gnu classpath (a j2se implementation) unfortunatly it's not complete.. hence it does not conform to (well at least the latest) java implementation available.

No, I understand the distinction quite well. I'm just not familiar with GCJ at all, since I've never had any reason to use anything except Sun's compiler Razz (And, well, it turns out I've unwittingly been using Jikes whenever I used Eclipse, which is not all that often, but that doesn't count Wink)
Author:  wtd [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:52 am ]
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Yes, legalities can cause serious problems.

Languages heavily encumbered by such things tend to die out quickly, unless they have significant corporate backing which continually pushes them when there's no other interest, as with languages with names rhyming with Shmava. Wink

Or Shmisual Masic.
Author:  Notoroge [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:16 am ]
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wtd wrote:
Microsoft's Visual Studio, designed specifically to work with C#, however, is not free by any stretch of the imagination.
I'unno, I've got quite an imagination. Wink
Author:  rizzix [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
wtd wrote:
unless they have significant corporate backing which continually pushes them when there's no other interest
or unless they have a huge community that's not so easily rid off. but liscensing schemes can affect that languages' popularity.. hence such companies need to certify the opensource world so as to gain popularity in that area..

of course java is free.. but not free to distribute.. (weird eh).. that's what prevents SUN's java from being pre-installed in various linux distros.. etc.. Harmony will change it all.
Author:  Drakain Zeil [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:48 pm ]
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Heh... no free programming... that's right, I copyrighted the 0s in binary, you'll have to pay me for every one that you use.
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:07 pm ]
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Well... I don't know too much about this all, but I don't know a programming language that you can't program in for free (other than Turing) - that's what I meant.
Author:  Drakain Zeil [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
free junk...
http://www.idiom.com/free-compilers/

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