article wrote:
They say that although the sex was consensual, it happened only twice.
What?
Computer Science Canada Did he use a condom? |
| Author: | bugzpodder [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Did he use a condom? |
http://www.canada.com/windsor/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=139d3689-67d2-412c-bf05-ebdbb676bf10 in light of the child porn viewing not too long ago... you know, i am really ashamed of coming from massey now... that f@g is almost 50... he's so fuking disgusting even for a pervert --- Teacher charged in sex case Man accused of exploiting a 15-year-old female student on school property Kelly Patrick Windsor Star August 13, 2005 A teacher at Vincent Massey high school is facing criminal charges after he allegedly had sex with one of his 15-year-old female students on school property. Police arrested Thomas Powers, 49, Wednesday. He was arraigned the same day on one count of sexual exploitation, said Staff Sgt. Dale Walker. The parents of the victim say their daughter is "devastated." They say that although the sex was consensual, it happened only twice. "This was a person we trusted," said her mother. "You let your child go to school and you think they're OK. She was definitely not OK." The legal age of sexual consent in Canada is 14. However, the sexual exploitation section of the Criminal Code allows police to charge authority figures, such as teachers, relatives or coaches, if they take advantage of teens between the ages of 14 and 18. Police allege Powers exploited the 15-year-old between June and August of this year. Powers wasn't scheduled to return to Massey in the fall. He'd already applied for a one-year leave of absence to teach English as a second language in the Egyptian capital of Cairo. He's set to depart Aug. 23. Following his Wednesday court appearance Powers was released on $15,000 bail with no provisions prohibiting him from leaving the country. "I understand he's innocent until proven guilty," said the girl's mother. "But the fact he can now go to another country and teach is very disturbing." Powers taught music and media arts at Massey from 1991 to 2003, said Mary Jean Gallagher, the director of education at the Greater Essex County District School Board. He took a year off to teach in Oman in 2003-04, but returned this year. "I've reviewed his personal file and there's nothing in his record to suggest this kind of behaviour," said Gallagher. She said the school board planned to conduct its own investigation into the allegations and to deliver word of the criminal charges to the Ontario College of Teachers. Power to discipline teachers The college has the power to discipline teachers who abuse their positions or run afoul of the law. Penalties can include revoking an educator's teaching certificate. "The board and myself are extremely distressed," said Gallagher. "If as this matter proceeds the allegations are found to be accurate it's clearly a serious breach of trust and something on a personal and professional level that I abhor." The girl's parents found out about the alleged incidents Sunday night. Told older brother Their daughter told an older brother's girlfriend, who in turn told her boyfriend and the rest of the 15-year-old's siblings. Then all the children, including the victim, revealed it to their parents together. "(She) was so devastated they had to carry her into the house," said the girl's mother. "Everybody was crying. (She) was curled forward on the floor on her face. She could barely speak." Eventually the story's alleged details spilled out. The parents say they didn't know about any of this until Sunday. Before that, the girl told her parents that Powers was just a cool and funny media arts teacher and yearbook supervisor. They believe their daughter had a schoolgirl crush on her teacher and that she'd started to become interested in boys. She's never had a boyfriend, they said. The Star tried twice Friday to reach Powers at the LaSalle address listed in his court file. Nobody was home. His lawyer, Andrew Bradie, did not return calls placed Friday afternoon. kpatrick@thestar.canwest.com or 255-5777, ext. 642 © The Windsor Star 2005 |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:46 pm ] |
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article wrote: They say that although the sex was consensual, it happened only twice. What? |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:06 pm ] |
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??? |
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| Author: | Neo [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:29 pm ] |
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Sounds awkward. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:11 pm ] |
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Dude. My take on it, It was consensual. It wasn't like he raped her. Check it, if it happens twice, that means the girl is coming back for more. It's happened plenty of times, when girls do this kind of stuff for attention. Example, Someone at my school student-council was charged in court for 'raping' two girls, turns out, they were just screwing around trying to get attention. That's my take on it. Think about it, the girl was perfectly chill right up until her boyfriend found out by word of mouth, and then she started crying and convulsing, and acting? Don't know man, I sympathise with rape victims, and with people that are psychologically forced into having sex, but the girl wanted to do it. She got caught, she felt ashamed, and started saying how she was mentally destroyed. Sounds really fishy. |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:33 am ] |
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I haven't met the girl in question, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that she's no angel. Of course, Powers is a disgusting freak. What is it with Massey's art department? |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:43 am ] |
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Notoroge wrote: It was consensual. It wasn't like he raped her.
a 50 year old teacher should know better than to exploit 15 year old's crush on him to get her to have sex with him. It is just wrong. how would you feel it was like your sister? |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:04 pm ] |
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But a 15 year old couldn't possibly know better? Damn, are you about to tell us she got the whole idea from Grand Theft Auto? |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:40 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: Notoroge wrote: It was consensual. It wasn't like he raped her.
a 50 year old teacher should know better than to exploit 15 year old's crush on him to get her to have sex with him. It is just wrong. how would you feel it was like your sister? Coutsos wrote: But a 15 year old couldn't possibly know better? Damn, are you about to tell us she got the whole idea from Grand Theft Auto?  |
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| Author: | AsianSensation [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:12 pm ] |
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Yeah, good point, What is with the arts department at Massey? Next thing you know, Horton will be charged for sexual harassment and the WHOLE arts department will completely transform into pedophiles. Oh yes, the girl has to be a big time Haore, that's for sure, those people get no pity from me. There are plenty of stories about Powers and how female students in his class with 20 avg suddenly gets 96 on the exam and passing. Though I am still creeped out about this. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:16 pm ] |
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well, to others, its not just massey's art department. the whole schools fuked up. as i said, i am just ashamed |
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| Author: | Jiran [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | May not have been exploitation |
You know, he may not have exploited her sexually. I'm young and don't know much about other people's feelings, but if he liked her, as a person, and she liked him, then in their eyes what they did was alright. He may be a pedophile, yes. But he may also have been a person with feelings for another person. And if it's consensual, then what's the problem? They're happy, end of story. |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:42 pm ] |
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That's the logical side of things. That's the side of things that ignores emotion, decency, and even morals, to an extent. These things must be looked at from a point balanced between these two extremes. P.S. Welcome back. |
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| Author: | Martin [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:29 pm ] |
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I think this disqualifies him from being a f@g though bugz... |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:03 pm ] |
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Martin wrote: I think this disqualifies him from being a f@g though bugz... Hehehe...
@Cervantes, We're not ignoring emotion, decency, and morals. To an extent. Morals? Well, I don't know. You tell me. What is the moral thing to do? And by whos' moral standards are you judging their acts by? Why does that moral standard define such act as immoral? Decency? Again, a very subjective word. And directly related to one's view on morals. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:09 pm ] |
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yea and why stop there!!! rape, murder, theft, etc.. are all perfectly moral.. even terrorism is perfectly moral.. i mean everything that we should not do.. is quite damn moral. why just stop at blowing 1000 people... why not the whole damn country.. it's perfectly moral!  (stupid subjective thinking) |
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| Author: | lyam_kaskade [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:32 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: you know, i am really ashamed of coming from massey now... that f@g is almost 50... he's so fuking disgusting even for a pervert Would it have been better if it happened with a new teacher, and he was only, say...24? At that age, the girl might have had more sexual experience than him. Hell, she might even if he's 50. This is a pretty grey topic (ie not black and white). (Not that he shouldn't be punished. Obviously, he's a teacher and he did a bad thing. The nature of the punishment, however, should depend on the exact circumstances). That reminds me, anyone seen commercials for that movie "The 40 year old virgin"? It sounded like a really bad movie to me. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:36 pm ] |
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Like I said to wtd in another thread, stop taking my words out of context. Our society has agreed on some guidelines to dictate morality that best suits us all as a mass. So, why is what they did immoral? How does the age difference make it immoral? Would people be as shocked if he wasn't a teacher? Is the fact that he's the teacher make it immoral? Why does the fact that he's a teacher make it immoral? Ugh, I'm just trying to understand why you find this whole situation disguisting, whilst I find it quite humorous. |
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| Author: | lyam_kaskade [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:49 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: How does the age difference make it immoral? I'm sorry. I was trying to make the point that if it's immoral, it shouldn't matter how old he is. I apologize if this was unclear. If he wasn't a teacher, then nobody would really care as much, since it was consensual and wouldn't count as statutory rape. The issue is whether or not he was using his authority to have sex with her, or if she would have done it regardless. Of course, she could have just been looking for a good f***. Who knows. I notice nobody interviewed Mr. Powers in the article though. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:54 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: Like I said to wtd in another thread, stop taking my words out of context. Our society has agreed on some guidelines to dictate morality that best suits us all as a mass. So a set of absoloutes?
Why do you contradict your self? You talk about morality in a subjective perspective, yet you suggest there should be a standard or limits as you'd like to call it. Once you establish that there should be a set of absoloutes, there's no reason to argue on terms of subjectivity. All I see here is you ranting, ranting, ranting pointlessly. (well maybe not as much but.. my point) |
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| Author: | Paul [ Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:29 pm ] |
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We have a teacher who is a former porn star  Some people were talking about him and his previous career and a female teacher just spazzed out for no reason. wonder why... |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:27 am ] |
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rizzix wrote: Notoroge wrote: Like I said to wtd in another thread, stop taking my words out of context. Our society has agreed on some guidelines to dictate morality that best suits us all as a mass. So a set of absoloutes? rizzix wrote: Why do you contradict your self? I haven't. See above explanation.
rizzix wrote: You talk about morality in a subjective perspective, yet you suggest there should be a standard or limits as you'd like to call it. Again, putting words in my mouth. I didn't say there should be a "standard" or "limits" (As I haven't called it, thus far). I said that we decide on what's most "right" as a whole in our society at the time being. I never said that these views should become written in stone and never to be challenged. Hell, I'm challenging those views right now. Society works as a mass creating a single entity. And that entity can change it's mind just as quickly and easily as you can. It is my firm belief that there should be no limits and set-standards. Because those only perpetuate the paradigm and avoid any real progress.
rizzix wrote: Once you establish that there should be a set of absoloutes, there's no reason to argue on terms of subjectivity. Not really. Since even those "absolutes" must come from the subjective view of a decision-making entity.
rizzix wrote: All I see here is you ranting, ranting, ranting pointlessly. (well maybe not as much but.. my point) I'm sorry you feel that way. |
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| Author: | MihaiG [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:36 am ] |
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i dont think either of them should be puinihhsed i think the parents are to blame....if they hadnt put those chiuld ause laws....you could give her a good beating  and she wouldnt thihnk about even touiching a 50 year old man... besides thre her parents there supposed to prevent her from doiong stuff liek that... educate her on ethics.... |
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| Author: | Tony [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Did he use a condom? |
bugzpodder wrote: that f@g is almost 50... he's so fuking disgusting even for a pervert
First of all I don't recall seeing that in bugz original post. I bet Martin has edited that.. Back to off topic: what if she did want it though? As I was told, highschool girls are in an unspoken competition of who could get laid first. Not neccessary do, just who could. That being said they don't actually want others to know. Or something... I donno, go talk to a girl. So following that theory, she could have been "loosing" quite badly. Feeling lonely and unattractive. All the guys in her class running after that chick who've hit her puberty a bit earlier on. Anyways.. The article does mention her having a crush on the teacher. Now as the dicussion above mentions, girls don't actually want anyone to find out about them getting laid (kind of like a game of blackjack.. get as close to 21, but if you pass it you loose type of deal). So him being a 50 year old teacher this gets a shitload of publicity (heck, we're on our 2nd page of discussion).. clealry the girl goes into shock. So yes - its plausable that she wanted him, it was concensual.. and as the article says.. they've done it "only" twice. The problem here is the authoritative position.. Though it is unclear who's taking advantage of whom. While the teacher could talk a student into sex with promisses of a passing grade... A student could talk the teacher into a passing grade because they're having sex. Anyways, that's like... unfair to other students who are not getting laid and failing tests. That's why a student is not allowed to date a TA for the subjects taken, even if the TA is the same age (or even younger.. I've had a TA who was in her first year) All that being said.. A friend of mine was/is going out with our teacher (largely speculated, even by other staff.. not confirmed) and a friend of a friend of mine is going out with her teacher (I've actually seen them together). |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:38 am ] |
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Notoroge wrote: Not really. Since even those "absolutes" must come from the subjective view of a decision-making entity. Which is usually not a single individual, but a body of matured and wise individuals, that speak on behalf of the society as a whole.
Just because you are questioning society and it's moral perception of things, does not make you right and society wrong (i'm not saying you _are_ taking this stance, but read on..). It's very likely you are wrong, and others right. Why? Well... how old are you? Around (more or less) the same age of that girl? So form your perspective, she's just as guilty as that elderly man, right? The only reason you see it this way is because you can only relate to both these individuals as u can relate to your self. You put ur self in the shoes of that man.. guilty! Now you take the point of view of the girl: just as guilty! What you failed to take into account is how mature that girl really is!?! As mature as you are? Most likely, or maybe less. But that does not mean that man is the same. Unfortutnatly you seem to believe so. He is much mature, and has years of experience behind him, yet he exploited that young girl and abused her sexually. Of course the other adults and specially parents were furious! Yet they did the same thing you did. The only difference now is that from their perspective of things, it's natural to see the man as commiting an immoral act and the girl being simply exploited. Your perspective of things might have also changed had you been 20 years older. As you can see subjectivity fails here. So, you say that you rather just criticize to improve the current standards of society? Maybe you should mature a bit and then try that again, later. Maybe then, you might actually have somthing wise to contribute. Notoroge wrote: rizzix wrote: All I see here is you ranting, ranting, ranting pointlessly. (well maybe not as much but.. my point) I'm sorry you feel that way. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:35 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: Notoroge wrote: Not really. Since even those "absolutes" must come from the subjective view of a decision-making entity. Which is usually not a single individual, but a body of matured and wise individuals, that speak on behalf of the society as a whole. rizzix wrote: Just because you are questioning society and it's moral perception of things, does not make you right and society wrong.
Have I even tried to prove any point in any one of my posts? No. My first post was a conspiracy theory. The rest were a bunch of questions. Honestly. Read them all. The only points I've made are those that are arisen in response to your bickering. I've simply tried to understand why you see it as horrible. All you do is say "what he did is disguisting in the eyes of those that are more mature than you", yet, you don't tell me "why". If you want me to mature, then please enlighten me as to what mature people think. So that I can start gaining some common ground with regards to these issues. rizzix wrote: It's very likely you are wrong, and others right.
"Likely"? Perhaps. You said it yourself. A possibility of being incorrect. But then again, if the minority was always wrong no matter what, we'd still have slavery, Christians would still be persecuted, homosexuals would be shot on-sight, and women wouldn't have the right to vote. Not to mention we'd still think the Earth was flat. Same applies to scientific discoveries in a way. One person making a discovery that disproves anything that was thought up 'till then. rizzix wrote: Why? Well... how old are you? Nineteen.
rizzix wrote: So form your perspective, she's just as guilty as that elderly man, right? You are correct.
rizzix wrote: The only reason you see it this way is because you can only relate to both these individuals as u can relate to your self.
You are incorrect. If you had read my original post, you'd have seen that my musings were based on that of past experiences from observing such situations and noting the outcomes. That was one example, there's countless of other examples I could put here, but it would take too long to write. The basic premise accross all those situations being, "Young, teenaged, female seeks revenge against a wrong-doer, wants attention, or is looking for something out of it (Beit monitary or personal gain)" rizzix wrote: You put ur self in the shoes of that man.. guilty! Now you take the point of view of the girl: just as guilty!
No. See explanation above. rizzix wrote: What you failed to take into account is how mature that girl really is!?! As mature as you are? Most likely, or maybe less.
Well, if she's "most likely" as mature as I am, then I have even more ground to relate to her. And I still think that she knew what was happening, and if she didn't want to, could have easily said 'No'. I mean, they did it twice. If it was once, I would be more inclined to believe her. rizzix wrote: But that does not mean that man is the same. Unfortutnatly you seem to believe so. He is much mature, and has years of experience behind him, yet he exploited that young girl and abused her sexually.
You are the one creating arguments based on assumtions. You assume he is more mature, based on his age. You assume he exploited the "young girl". And you assume he "abused" her sexually. (The fact that they had sex is not in question in this argument, but that of abuse). Or maybe I'm wrong. Please, tell me, on what postulate did you assert that their actions are immoral? What swayed you to believe that what they did is wrong? And why do you feel that it is abuse for two people of such age difference to have sex? rizzix wrote: Of course the other adults and specially parents were furious!
I, as a parent, would be dissapointed in my daughter. Although not angry. But maybe that's just me. Even if she was not a culprit, then for allowing it to occur more than once. rizzix wrote: Yet they did the same thing you did. .
No. They acted on emotion, instead of reason. rizzix wrote: The only difference now is that from their perspective of things, it's natural to see the man as commiting an immoral act and the girl being simply exploited.
Why? That's the problem. People making assumtions based on the premise that "Old men are dirty, and young girls are innocent". When many of us can agree upon such a generalization being false. rizzix wrote: Your perspective of things might have also changed had you been 20 years older. Probably. But that still doesn't mean that I'm going to be wrong all the time, due to my age.
rizzix wrote: As you can see subjectivity fails here.
No, it doesn't. Subjectivity is all anyone has to go on in this case. Because depending on what subjective view people chose to adopt with regards to this case, he may be left innocent, or accepted as guilty. rizzix wrote: So, you say that you rather just criticize to improve the current standards of society?
Again, NO. I did not (and never have) said that I'd rather "criticizise" society in order to make it better. I said I would question society in order to make sure that the reason behind their morality is acceptable, reasonable, and logical. I ask questions, and if they are not answered satisfactorially, then there's room left for doubt on the strength of such beliefs. rizzix wrote: Maybe you should mature a bit and then try that again, later. Maybe then, you might actually have somthing wise to contribute.
If we all sit around waiting until we are mature in order to make decisions, then nothing would even get done. Since no one ever stops maturing. Unless of course, you want decisions to come from the mouths of corpses. I am not insulting you, I am questioning your side of the argument. There is no need for personal attacks. rizzix wrote: Notoroge wrote: rizzix wrote: All I see here is you ranting, ranting, ranting pointlessly. (well maybe not as much but.. my point) I'm sorry you feel that way. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:57 pm ] |
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| Author: | lyam_kaskade [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:14 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: If we all sit around waiting until we are mature in order to make decisions, then nothing would even get done. Since no one ever stops maturing. Unless of course, you want decisions to come from the mouths of corpses. Now there's an idea. Zombie presidents. At least we won't have to worry about him screwing his subordinates. No? Well, I'm sure it would make for a good movie at least. But then, there are all those other zombie movies already... hmmmm...  |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:00 pm ] |
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*sigh*.. maybe you should try to not answer the rhetorical questions in my post and answer the real ones.. *sigh* so.. questioning society is not the same as criticizing? they both bring about awarness to society don't they? And that too usually "the flaws", doesn't it now? *sigh again* Funny you conclude that the "adults" acted on emotion rather than reason. Are you the only one acting on reason here? heh.. Quote: But then again, if the minority was always wrong no matter what, we'd still have slavery, Christians would still be persecuted, homosexuals would be shot on-sight, and women wouldn't have the right to vote. Not to mention we'd still think the Earth was flat. Where did I say that the minority are always wrong? In the case of oppression against women and christians.. bah! the majority were blindly persecuting them.
in this case, there's nothing blind in the accusations made against that man. that's my whole point.. but u seem to disagree.. "emotions" eh? ha! maybe the parents but not every single other adult out there. don't tell me you think _all_ adults are highly emotional.. haha.. i could tell you most teens are emotional.. and that'd be very much right.. not necessarily visa-versa. once again.. Are you the only one acting on reason here? Quote: But that still doesn't mean that I'm going to be wrong all the time, due to my age. who said you are? just saying u're very likely _not_, right now.
Quote: I, as a parent, would be dissapointed in my daughter. Although not angry. But maybe that's just me. Even if she was not a culprit, then for allowing it to occur more than once. oh i'm sure you'd be pretty mad about the actions of the other guy __as well__..
Quote: If we all sit around waiting until we are mature in order to make decisions, then nothing would even get done. Since no one ever stops maturing. Unless of course, you want decisions to come from the mouths of corpses. did i not mention maybe 20 years more would be good enough for you? no need to wait infinitely (unless you think otherwise).. of course i'm not saying you should stop arguing just cuz ur not mature bla bla.. meh! just making a point.
Quote: People making assumtions based on the premise that "Old men are dirty, and young girls are innocent". When many of us can agree upon such a generalization being false. that's your immaturity for you. i did not say old men are dirty bla bla bla.. read my post again.. *sigh* |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:29 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: *sigh*.. maybe you should try to not answer the rhetorical questions in my post and answer the real ones.. *sigh* I try to be thurough.
rizzix wrote: so.. questioning society is not the same as criticizing?
You are correct. See below explanation. rizzix wrote: they both bring about awarness to society don't they? And that too usually "the flaws", doesn't it now?
Although both methods could be used to achieve a common task (Uncovering flaws), they both entail very different qualities. Criticizing would be you telling me to "Grow up," before I "comment on this story". Questioning would be me asking, "Why?". Questioning, as the name suggests, is a form of "inquisition", discovering the truth. I do not criticize, I question the validity. Criticizing is directly shooting-down an idea, inquisition is finding out whether an idea has any substance. So whereas criticizing is meant to directly disprove, questioning will not disprove or prove, but will instead discover the reality. Proof or Dissproof thereof, is a direct by-product of inquisition, and not the main goal. rizzix wrote: *sigh again*
Are you OK? rizzix wrote: Funny you conclude that the "adults" acted on emotion rather than reason. Are you the only one acting on reason here? heh.. Hopefully not. But when someone's instant reaction is rage before sitting down and analyzing a situation, then one is very safe to assume that it wasn't a well educated decision. And instead based on, well, emotion.
rizzix wrote: Where did I say that the minority are always wrong? You said I'm most likely wrong because I was the minority. I was just making it clear that it was most likely not the case.
rizzix wrote: in this case, there's nothing blind in the accusations made against that man. that's my whole point.. but u seem to disagree..
Which brings me back to my original question, which seems to have caused this little fuss. "why!?". rizzix wrote: "emotions" eh? ha! maybe the parents but not every single other adult out there.
You can't prove that. rizzix wrote: don't tell me you think _all_ adults are highly emotional..
I never said such a thing. I just said the initial response of every one seems to have been emotional. Mainly because no one has given me a logical reason to believe that what has happened is "horrible" and "disguisting". rizzix wrote: haha.. i could tell you most teens are emotional..
Which is just about as true as saying "All Adults are Emotional", which I just told you I didn't say. But you seem to already know that. rizzix wrote: and that'd be very much right.. not necessarily visa-versa. once again.. Are you the only one acting on reason here? So far, at the expense of sound like someone with a superiority complex, yes. Well, at the very least, one of the very few people acting within reason (at least in this thread; outside world notwithstanding).
rizzix wrote: who said you are? just saying u're very likely _not_, right now. Noooo, you said I'm very likely wrong right now. I'm just saying that the odds aren't that against me.
rizzix wrote: oh i'm sure you'd be pretty mad about the actions of the other guy __as well__.. I'd be dissapointed at my daughter for letting the whole situation get *way* out of hand (ie: Not controlling it like she should have). The other guy? Hm, I wouldn't be angry. If he did something innappropriate, like, forcing my daughter to have sex. But from the evidence that I've been presented thus far, it doesn't seem to be the case in this particular scenario.
rizzix wrote: did i not mention maybe 20 years more would be good enough for you?
No, you explicitely said, "Your perspective of things might have also changed had you been 20 years older." you said nothing about me becoming "wiser", or "maturing". You just said "changed". Changed to be the same as the "adults"? Maybe. Doesn't mean it'd be correct. rizzix wrote: Your perspective of things might have also changed had you been 20 years older. of course i'm not saying you should stop arguing just cuz ur not mature bla bla.. meh! just making a point.
What point? That I should stop arguing because I'm not mature enough? (Hehe) rizzix wrote: that's your immaturity for you. i did not say old men are dirty bla bla bla.. read my post again..
Okay, I reread your post and it says, rizzix wrote: The only difference now is that from their perspective of things, it's natural to see the man as commiting an immoral act and the girl being simply exploited.
They'd "naturally" see the man as commmiting an immoral act and the girl being simply exploited" because, well, of the premise that "Old men are dirty, and young girls are innocent". Which I said is an incorrect assumption. rizzix wrote: *sigh* Why joo s1gh soh mach? Am I gehteen on j00r nerrvz? ^_^;; |
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| Author: | Aoi [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:28 pm ] |
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Notoroge wrote: Dude. My take on it,
It was consensual. It wasn't like he raped her. Check it, if it happens twice, that means the girl is coming back for more. It's happened plenty of times, when girls do this kind of stuff for attention. Example, Someone at my school student-council was charged in court for 'raping' two girls, turns out, they were just screwing around trying to get attention. That's my take on it. Think about it, the girl was perfectly chill right up until her boyfriend found out by word of mouth, and then she started crying and convulsing, and acting? Don't know man, I sympathise with rape victims, and with people that are psychologically forced into having sex, but the girl wanted to do it. She got caught, she felt ashamed, and started saying how she was mentally destroyed. Sounds really fishy. It doesn't matter if it is consensual it's still a unlawful, Think about it, a female ontario licenced teacher had a sexual relationship with one of her students all the way in france is still charged in Canada and has her licence revoked, when that was also consensual (i mean they even got married after that and had a child) fact is, if it's in this country or not nor if it was willing or not it's till a unlawful and breaking a trust that parents have on the students also it gives a bad name to the school and the teachers. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:48 pm ] |
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wow notorage.. either you chose to ingore.. u you just simply don't get it.. yea u have a lot of assumptions in your posts.. none of which can be proven true.. none of which i'm going to bother to comment on.. i believe they are all foolish, and unnecessary.. hence i said wisen up already! 
i know i started this.. meh so i'm going to end it.. i have other things to do.. and this seems to be wasting my time..  |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:02 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: wow notorage.. either you chose to ingore.. u you just simply don't get it.. yea u have a lot of assumptions in your posts.. none of which can be proven true.. none of which i'm going to bother to comment on.. i believe they are all foolish, and unnecessary.. hence i said wisen up already! Cool, as long as we are both agreeing that I win, it's all good.
i know i started this.. meh so i'm going to end it.. i have other things to do.. and this seems to be wasting my time..  |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:40 pm ] |
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*sigh* 20 years more... |
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| Author: | Jiran [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:00 pm ] |
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I read the article to my Mom, and this is her, basic, take on it: "So, what was your final conclusion?" "I think I said that the man was not right in pursuing any kind of sexual allegiance with a 15 year old girl. Because you were saying to me, "What if they were in love?", and that was what I was responding to, mainly. I would say that even if they thought they were in love, it's still morally wrong for a person of aurthority and greather experience to take advantage of someone as young as that. Even if the 15 year old is using the other person, as [Tony] said, to manipluate or look for attention, the adult should have the wits to know that you just do not go there. And if you do, you will be caught, because someone will speak. Someone will talk. [Him taking advantage of her] is morally wrong in our society. I cannot think of a scenario where it would not seem perverted for a 50 year old man and a 15 year old girl to be together. And really you could only say it's morally wrong because those are the decisions our society has made." For what it's worth. |
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| Author: | Notoroge [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:17 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: *sigh* 20 years more... Heh, lighten up. Learn to differentiate jokes from actual celebration.
@Jiran, that's her opinion. I just want to know "why" it's morally wrong. Honestly, like, I haven't started anything. My original (and yet to be answered) question, "Why is it immoral"? That's it. Nothing else. |
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| Author: | lyam_kaskade [ Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:32 am ] |
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Why it's morally wrong? Because she's only 15 years old. Because (especially to a 50 year old) she's still a kid. She should be sneaking out and going to parties, studying to get into university, thinking she's invincible, and all those other things teenagers do. She has her entire life ahead of her. The teacher, on the other hand, is 50 years old. He's lived alot of his life already. Partying is behind him, and whoever he dates should be okay with settling down. In any case, the 50 year old has had far more life experience than the girl has. He is at a far great level of maturity than she is, and it makes you wonder how he could even be satisfied with a teenage girls level of intelligence/maturity. As with most things, there are always exceptions. But most people assume that individuals are similar to most other people of the same age. And that's why most people would think this situation is immoral. Of course it's all pretty relative. Back 500 years ago girls would marry as young as 12. Which made sense, considering how long people lived back then. Had to get as early of a start as possible. This still happens in some countries today (many countries where the life expectancy is much lower than it is her coincidentally). However, there are many things that used to be acceptable and even encouraged that many would find horrifying today. Slavery, for example. Most people would agree that as society becomes more educated as a whole, our beliefs and morals begin to make alot more sense. (Assuming you think everyone is more educated than they used to be). In short, it's immoral because everyone thinks it is. Morality is a creation of the mind. You could try and explain to a slave trader why slavery is wrong, but he probably won't get it. If he believes he is better than his slaves, than there is no way to convince him he shouldn't enslave them. (Please don't get the idea that I'm comparing you to a slaver, this is just an analogy). And so, the collective will of everyone makes it immoral. I'm sorry if I haven't made much sense, I have other troubling thoughts on my mind at the moment. However, you requested an explanation and I thought I would try to help. Oh one last thing. As I said above, if someone doesn't think something is immoral, it probably can't be explained to them why it is. So if you see nothing wrong with a 50 year old and a 15 year old being together, then it probably can't be explained to you. |
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| Author: | Jiran [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:10 pm ] |
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That's probaly the best explanation I've heard thus far. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:42 pm ] |
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i've known a true story. what happens is that there's this old man (probably 60-70 or even older) who had a neighbour girl (14?). this girl needed pocket money so one day she stripped and went into his bed. after throwing her out a few times, the old man couldnt control himself and had sex with her. they'd kept this relationship for 3 years until the old man finally decided that he's heart condition is getting worse and he couldnt take it anymore. so he turned himself in... |
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