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NetBeans info.

Author:	Cinjection [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	NetBeans info.
I was planning on learning bits of Java and i downloaded the NetBeans IDE. I like the features of it but i was wondering what you guys use for a Java IDE and compiler. I find NetBeans IDE a little hard to work with, so i was wondering if theres something that i should use instead.

Author:	wtd [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:34 pm ]
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Use the text editor of your choosing and the standard Java command-line tools from Sun.

Author:	Cinjection [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:38 pm ]
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wtd wrote: Use the text editor of your choosing and the standard Java command-line tools from Sun. I'd like a regular automated compiler.

Author:	wtd [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:11 pm ]
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Cinjection wrote: wtd wrote: Use the text editor of your choosing and the standard Java command-line tools from Sun. I'd like a regular automated compiler. Why? You like having to figure out a convoluted GUI to be able to something simple like compile a source file? The compiler is the same, anyway.

Author:	Cinjection [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:22 pm ]
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wtd wrote: Why? You like having to figure out a convoluted GUI to be able to something simple like compile a source file? The compiler is the same, anyway. No, It's easier with a G.U.I. It's just a couple clicks of the mouse, as opposed to typeing words into a black window. Is this what you use? Why not pick up a IDE specific for that language. That's like takeing a step backwards. Either way, can you throw some good IDE names at me anyway. The ones you know of anyway.

Author:	wtd [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:15 pm ]
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Cinjection wrote: wtd wrote: Why? You like having to figure out a convoluted GUI to be able to something simple like compile a source file? The compiler is the same, anyway. No, It's easier with a G.U.I. It's just a couple clicks of the mouse, as opposed to typeing words into a black window. Is this what you use? Why not pick up a IDE specific for that language. That's like takeing a step backwards. Either way, can you throw some good IDE names at me anyway. The ones you know of anyway. It's important to understand how the tools work. Any time invested in a specific GUI front-end can easily be wasted when you have to switch to another IDE. The command-line tools will remain the same. Eclipse is pretty much the standard anymore for Java.

Author:	rizzix [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:32 pm ]
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netbeans is great. eclipse is as well. they are the two best and free IDE's available for java. the other option is Intellij's IDEA. (also great, but not so free) BTW, i use eclipse. nevertheless i would recommed what wtd said: dont use and IDE when learning java (especailly if ur new to programming)

Author:	1of42 [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:35 pm ]
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wtd wrote: Why? You like having to figure out a convoluted GUI to be able to something simple like compile a source file? The compiler is the same, anyway. Oh, yeah, watch out for that convoluted GUI. Build -> Compile Build -> Execute For people who are intelligent enough to program, I'm assuming this is no great stretch of mental exercise In any case, once you've learned the standard console commands, it quickly becomes tiresome to recompile things all the time; for this, IDEs are very much better.

Author:	mubeen [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:30 pm ]
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try "ready" its really easy to work with and API is good too. Works well for beginners.

Author:	wtd [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:35 pm ]
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mubeen wrote: try "ready" its really easy to work with and API is good too. Works well for beginners. Except that the APIs you use in it are worthless. The only real benefit to using Java is the enormous standard library. If you're not learning to use that, then you might as well learn another language.

Author:	Cinjection [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:04 pm ]
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wtd wrote: The only real benefit to using Java is the enormous standard library. If you're not learning to use that, then you might as well learn another language. Just out of curiosity, what's your favorite language?

Author:	wtd [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:07 pm ]
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Cinjection wrote: wtd wrote: The only real benefit to using Java is the enormous standard library. If you're not learning to use that, then you might as well learn another language. Just out of curiosity, what's your favorite language? You're asking me to pick just one? I honestly don't know that I can.

Author:	mubeen [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:24 pm ]
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other than the 3D part i find the API in ready to be a lot more than just worthless and any beginner would not start out with 3D so its a good place to start. It doesnt require you to create packages for small programs unlike netbeans which can at times become a real pain.

Author:	1of42 [ Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:34 pm ]
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mubeen wrote: try "ready" its really easy to work with and API is good too. Works well for beginners. For once, I gotta agree with wtd - Ready's libaries are absolutely terrible. IMO, they're basically taking one of the most excellent aspects of Java - the enormous standard library - and turning it into Turing-esque simplified crap. edit Onthe other hand, the IDE is nicely lightweight, easy to use, easy to compile/run with (no convoluted menus), and has that nice auto-indent feature...

Author:	Cinjection [ Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:26 am ]
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wtd wrote: You're asking me to pick just one? I honestly don't know that I can. awww come on, "amuse me."

Author:	wtd [ Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:57 am ]
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Cinjection wrote: wtd wrote: You're asking me to pick just one? I honestly don't know that I can. awww come on, "amuse me." No, seriously, there are lots of languages I love using. Ruby, O'Caml, Haskell, Eiffel, Ada, and others that probably slip my mind at this hour. There are lots of features I like in these languages. A high degree of dynamic design, static typing without casts or automatic type promotion, type inferencing, incredibly powerful generics, multiple inheritance, design by contract, type classes, fast native compilation, selective access, uniform access, etc. The thing is, I can't get all of that in a single place, so no, I really can't pick a favorite.

Author:	Hikaru79 [ Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:34 pm ]
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1of42 wrote: Onthe other hand, the IDE is nicely lightweight, easy to use, easy to compile/run with (no convoluted menus), and has that nice auto-indent feature... If you like the light-weightness of RTP, but don't want to be tied down to the JDK that they have built in, give SciTE a try. As long as you have a JDK properly installed on your system, it is basically just a nice text editor with programming features like code folding and syntax coloring for a variety of languages, but without any extras. Compiling and executing is just a matter of SciTE linking to the command-line version of these tools. The best of both worlds! ^_^ And, best of all, it supports a very large variety of very different languages, and its available for several platforms as well.

Author:	Naveg [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:53 pm ]
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I used to think I wanted to use an IDE, then wtd convinced me that it wasn't worth it, and boy am I grateful. Currently I use the Cream configuration for Vim which gives me syntax highlighting and auto-indentation. Then I spend two seconds at the command line compiling. Much easier than an IDE in my opinion.

Author:	wtd [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:50 pm ]
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Vladimir wrote: I used to think I wanted to use an IDE, then wtd convinced me that it wasn't worth it, and boy am I grateful. Nifty, that's certainly a better outcome than you being out for my blood.

Author:	Naveg [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:43 pm ]
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Hikaru79 wrote: 1of42 wrote: Onthe other hand, the IDE is nicely lightweight, easy to use, easy to compile/run with (no convoluted menus), and has that nice auto-indent feature... If you like the light-weightness of RTP, but don't want to be tied down to the JDK that they have built in, give SciTE a try. As long as you have a JDK properly installed on your system, it is basically just a nice text editor with programming features like code folding and syntax coloring for a variety of languages, but without any extras. Compiling and executing is just a matter of SciTE linking to the command-line version of these tools. The best of both worlds! ^_^ And, best of all, it supports a very large variety of very different languages, and its available for several platforms as well. just gave SciTE a try, and it looks quite good. Could you give me a hand with the config files though? What I want is line numbers, monospaced font, and larger window at startup.

Author:	Spartan_117 [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:22 pm ]
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I think the easiest one is Ready to Program, by holt software.. It indents, checks for errors, colour codes the syntax, and of course compiles. Its also real easy to use unlike some IDEs where u need to learn a lot before even learning the language. Problem is it cost money, which seems pretty odd for such a lightweight program.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:41 pm ]
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And, if I have been following Java correctly, it's HoltSoft Java which usually uses different libraries than the normal Java which most people learn. It's supposed to be more "Turing" friendly or something like that. That, and its a rip off since you can get any good compiler/editor and/or IDE for free.

Author:	1of42 [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:33 am ]
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[Gandalf] wrote: And, if I have been following Java correctly, it's HoltSoft Java which usually uses different libraries than the normal Java which most people learn. It's supposed to be more "Turing" friendly or something like that. That, and its a rip off since you can get any good compiler/editor and/or IDE for free. It uses the IBM Jike copmiler for starters, so may not be completely up to date. It has built-in Turing-like libraries, but those are unnecessary, and detrimental to use.

Author:	Spartan_117 [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:43 am ]
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Definitely true that its a ripoff.. i got it for free from school tho

Author:	Aziz [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:46 am ]
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About RTP . . . if you like the indenting, the colour, etc, a good IDE is JCreator, it's what I use, and I love it, it's small (not like NetBeans) and you can customize it (use any JDK you want). Now can someone explain to me why using an IDE is so wrong?

Author:	Hikaru79 [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:02 pm ]
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Aziz wrote: Now can someone explain to me why using an IDE is so wrong? It's not wrong, it's only a problem when: a) You start using it as a crutch, not realizing what is an IDE-specific function and what is part of the language b) You do not pick up on skills like making a build script because the IDE does it for you. c) You use an IDE and it just slows you down because 99% of its features are enterprise-oriented and you're not using anything in it that a text-editor with some eye candy wouldn't provide. There are cases where it is A Good Thing, however. For example, if you're designing a database-driven application, having an IDE there, which allows for some direct manipulation of the DB in the same program, then it can be quite useful.

Author:	rizzix [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:33 am ]
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Databases manipulation is not the only good thing about these IDEs. Most IDEs provide for code refactoring (exclusive of JCreator i believe). This - as you will eventually realise - is one feature, you can't live without, specially when you reach the point of redesigning your program; perhaps because you reach that period in time where your program has grown too big, but to further continue work, a redesign is necessary! I know this happens to me quite often. Other good things these IDEs provide is for template-driven-coding which helps to reduce the number lines of code you actually type your self. They also help reduce coding in general, by at the least writing out the skeleton code for you - this is of perticular use when implementing methods from super classes or interfaces. Other cool things IDE's provide for is code reflection - i.e they check the validity of the code you write (your calls to various methods etc) by looking into the core or bytecode of those various classes and validating your code against whats defined within them. They also help make the whole precess of incode documentation more effective and easier. Some very cool things that some IDEs can do (this includes Eclipse, given that you've installed the respective plugin) is UML modeling of your code. This is a nifty feature and is best used when you are comfortable with designing before coding. A very useful feature of Eclipse is the way it handles running Test Cases. Of course you dont need an IDE for that, but it does make the whole process a lot easier and a lot more efficient - i.e less time consuming - and effective in general. IDEs are great! But only once you actually get into proper development. If you are here to learn the language, I suggest against using them. They come in the way of the learning process and usually result in confusion or missunderstandings.

Author:	wtd [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:49 am ]
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The problem with IDEs is when you spend a week struggling to compile "Hello world" because of some subtle setting nested three dialogs deep. Students who never get started programming will never make progress.

Author:	1of42 [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:29 am ]
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wtd wrote: The problem with IDEs is when you spend a week struggling to compile "Hello world" because of some subtle setting nested three dialogs deep. Students who never get started programming will never make progress. coughoverexaggerationcough The last time I saw someone get seriously impaired by using an IDE was about... never. maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong ppl...?

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:12 pm ]
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When I got Visual Studio? 6 I think, I had some VB code (this was a long while ago) and I had no clue how to enter it. I spent around an hour before giving up and doing nothing. That stopped me from learning VB before going into Turing. I'm pretty sure it was just some certain template or somethign that you needed for it to work. There's your example.

Author:	1of42 [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:19 pm ]
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Aziz wrote: About RTP . . . if you like the indenting, the colour, etc, a good IDE is JCreator, it's what I use, and I love it, it's small (not like NetBeans) and you can customize it (use any JDK you want). Now can someone explain to me why using an IDE is so wrong? Yeah, JCreator is good. I use that now (well, that or TextPad with it's built in compiler keyboard shortcuts, which are really all I needed anyways). The only thing I use RTP for now is to catch any spacing mistakes I make - at the end of a project I'll open it all up in RTP and indent it. It's not perfect, for example the ternary operator gets split up onto different lines because RTP treats it like a label for spacing, but w/e, still easy at the end of it all. [Gandalf] wrote: When I got Visual Studio? 6 I think, I had some VB code (this was a long while ago) and I had no clue how to enter it. I spent around an hour before giving up and doing nothing. That stopped me from learning VB before going into Turing. I'm pretty sure it was just some certain template or somethign that you needed for it to work. There's your example. You give up too easily.

Author:	[Gandalf] [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:32 pm ]
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Pfft, my only knowledge was of BASIC back then, and I get a program that sells for somehting like $100 and can't get a simple program to work. It's sort of discouraging... If it stops people from learning easily then there's something wrong.

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