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Canadian Politics

Author:	jonos [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Canadian Politics
Who would you vote for. You can keep it anonymous with the poll, or you can stand up and post it. I'd vote for the conservatives. And I want Clement as leader of the Conservative Party. and please be honest, don't say int he poll you would vote for the communists (is there even a communist party, my civics book said there was one, i don't know about now though) if you don't know what communism is. same for all the other ones.

Author:	Maverick [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:14 pm ]
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What about Bloc Quebecois or w/e lol. I wuld vote for conservatives, and now since the progressives havemerged with the Canadian Alliance it strengthens my views with them even more. I was a fan of Harris and Joe Clark, but they're both gone so i don't support them quite as much.

Author:	Dan [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:18 pm ]
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dan takes out shoot gun ok whos think about voteing Christian Heritage??? come on just try it and u whont have a hand left to hit sumnit with... loads the gun ...

Author:	jonos [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:23 pm ]
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so its tied with liberals and conservatives. weird (2 to 2). anyways, maverick waht do you think about harris supporting stronach? what do you think about stronach, other than that she is kind of hot in a hot mom sort of way.

Author:	Dan [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:26 pm ]
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i whould have voted NDP but they dont have a cance in hell of ever doing anything, lol.

Author:	jonos [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:27 pm ]
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yeah. if you vote for them provincially in some provinces they win though, like in saskatchewan i think.

Author:	Maverick [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:28 pm ]
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I actually wanted harris to go for conservative leadership. He wuldve had a pretty decent shot for leadership, the main problem is that he is not bilingual. I guess Stronach is sorta MILFish but she really has no experiance. But I personally dont care about experiance.

Author:	Tony [ Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:59 pm ]
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hahaha communists there is a communist party of canada or something like that... I think that's just a bunch of old russian guys who desided to turn their beer club into a political party anyways... wasn't the election over like a while ago? Ether way, I'd vote for Liberals... other two parties just seem way to the sides with their platforms

Author:	jonos [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:13 am ]
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liberals try to be in the middle, but they are left. isn't the red chevron club communist?

Author:	Maverick [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:39 pm ]
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The liberals have always been left. BTW, jonos are u conservative or liberal?

Author:	jonos [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:53 pm ]
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i bleed blue man, so im conservative.

Author:	PaddyLong [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:45 pm ]
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there's another election coming up soon isn't there?

Author:	jonos [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:51 pm ]
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it hasn't been called yet, but there might be because paul martin needs to proove he is liked by canada. there is an election for the leader of the conservative party soon though.

Author:	poly [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:15 pm ]
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Communist Part of Canada - http://www.communist-party.ca/ It kind of sucks cause there not doing too much...They need motivation, I'd try and join it, but maybe Im going to start my own communist regime...first thing on the agenda get rid of woman suffraging (lol just joking)

Author:	jonos [ Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:28 pm ]
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oh no... the communist party was started in guelph! the city i live in. guelph's full of communists anyways, its a conspiracy to resurect the past government of russia.

Author:	Dan [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:19 pm ]
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jonos wrote: oh no... the communist party was started in guelph! the city i live in. guelph's full of communists anyways, its a conspiracy to resurect the past government of russia. pff whould be better then a conservative goverment. sits back and wates for the flaming

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:25 pm ]
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votes Liberal Conservatives are stupid Seriously Maverick, how can you like Harris while being a student! He killed education!!! Education is a dead pig that was cut up and mailed to all the taxpayers to ease their finances.

Author:	Dan [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:28 pm ]
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dont forget they also whont to kill free health care!!!!!

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:33 pm ]
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well, id like to say some things. i don't they they would kill free health care, they would still have it, they'd just allow private healthcare, which is proven to be better than free health care (medicare) which doesn't get enough money as it is. and to dan: id rather have a conservative government founded than a form of government that would push our society back in time, communism is flawed and has no place in todays state (my opinion). i don't think harris killed healthcare, he introduced a new curriculum which the only people who really complain about it are the people who don't try or do good in school and would do bad in the old one as well (my opinion also). i liked harris, eves is a dick, dalton is a dick, chretien is a dick (all my opinion, but this is interesting seeing who everyone likes.) at least the conservatives are in the lead... eyah./

Author:	Maverick [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:39 pm ]
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Ya i really dojnt give a shit about the education system, ive seen hardly any change and at least Ontario was semi prosperous while he was in power. The rest of em are all dicks in my opinion

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:53 pm ]
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Reducing the secondary school system from 5 years to 4 years does a number of things: It makes the curriculum harder; more will not graduate and more will be unemployed It means we are younger when we go to university. This means we are less mature and also have less money. It can't even be reversed totally by taking 5 years instead of 4 because the courses are still taught faster. At the end we will have the same courses complete, but we work harder in subjects the whole way through, except taking breaks from them in between. It's silly. Quote: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." So why did Harris try to fix an education system that wasn't broken to begin with?[/list]

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:54 pm ]
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damn, sorry i forgot about the whole grade 13 thing. actually all the people i know (save a few) like it with one less year. it all depends on your opinion of highschool and hwo it shouldl be taught and if you like it.

Author:	Dan [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:57 pm ]
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jonos wrote: well, id like to say some things. i don't they they would kill free health care, they would still have it, they'd just allow private healthcare, which is proven to be better than free health care (medicare) which doesn't get enough money as it is. proven by who? u? stop making up false facts. jonos wrote: and to dan: id rather have a conservative government founded than a form of government that would push our society back in time, communism is flawed and has no place in todays state (my opinion). communism is no more flawed then any other system that exists today. u have just been brain washed by the U.S. and other poleop in to thinking that communism is bad. communism as a system is not bad the problem lines in the croption that has happend in many communism govements. the idea of all poleop having equal materal rights is not bad, i mane all polep having food and a place to live is not a bad thing. of corse that may be hard to see from the convitcie view point of "you have no money so u can just die". jonos wrote: i don't think harris killed healthcare, he introduced a new curriculum which the only people who really complain about it are the people who don't try or do good in school and would do bad in the old one as well (my opinion also). i liked harris, eves is a dick, dalton is a dick, chretien is a dick (all my opinion, but this is interesting seeing who everyone likes.) at least the conservatives are in the lead... eyah./ ok now u are saying i don't try or do good in shcool with out even knowing me. i am guseing u go to a prviate school where this whould not even effect u. i dont see how clsoing schools + taking money away from them + geting ride of teaches + geting ride of grade 13 + doubling poleop going in to uni in one year + adding crazy test = better edcuation but since u say i am so bad at school my math could be bad .

Author:	Maverick [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:58 pm ]
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Well i wuld rather have 5 years of school cause then im legal drinking age (but that doesnt stop me anyway) and imm lazy. But really the people who cant finish and are being unemployed are probably not bright in the first place. You get 5 years to take 30 courses that wuld be so easy and everyone wuld have spares. So really ppl are just lazy like me but i really dont care 4 or 5 years.

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:16 pm ]
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actually, economically communism is flawed and the fact that the state controls everything is a major flaw because there exists the potentional for corruption which cannot be countered because it is a basic human flaw. and medicare vs. private health care. the us healthcare system is a lot better than canada's healthcare. medicare is abused by many people just because it is free. have you not heard of stories of some mother calling an ambulance and a police escort and having her son taken to the emergency room, and put to the front of the emergency room AND THE SON HAD ONLY JUST PULLED HIS TOOTH OUT. is that not an abusing action against our healthcare system. and another example: my brother broke his arm jumping off a porch and he had to wait a whole hour with his broken arm in the emergency room while people were ahead of him for having the flu, or having a cold, or having a headache, or having felt nauseous for a couple seconds. and this was before sars so there was no suspicion of it at the time. and another example, while snowboarding in the us with all my relatives and my family my cousing broke his arm while snowboard and on arriving at the us hospital was immediately seen by a nurse and then a doctor 5 mins later wehen they proved they could pay for it. thats proof enough of private healthcare being better than free (which isn't really free) healthcare. and in communism, not everybody has the same rights no matter how much they claim that, look at the leaders of the government who get better food, better healthcare, better clothes, more money, more power, more influence while people below them have less. and on the education, i never called you a bad student, i said that in my opinion (in my experiences) the only people who thought that were lazy people, etc. every person i know who gets good marks has no problem with the new curriculum, while the people who do not get good marks, do not do their homework, do not listen in class, try to make excuses to their laziness with saying harris made the curriculum too hard. i have no problem with one less year, as many peoplke i know also do not, i can take a 5th year if i really want to which i will probably do. and actually i go to a school which has trouble with giving every student a text book, we don't have enough overhead projectors or tvs, our basketballs suck, our floors become puddles as well as the stairs, we are missing ceiling tiles, my school is a disgrace. maybe getting rid of teachers is a good thing, because then there is more money for the schools, and there is not an abundance of schools like there is still at my school. there are some teachers who teach one subject and get paid full time for just hanging around the halls and the staff room. i don't think an ndp government could do any better, but i don't know because they've never been elected in ontario so i don't know.

Author:	Dan [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:46 pm ]
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well there is no point in aguging with you b/c no matter how many true exaples and facts i give u, u will still be stuck in you fath in a cropted partiy. if u saw the hole pitcher then may be u whould understand. also i bivle u are mistaking spifck govements with communism. just b/c x conotry is communism and is evil dose not make communism evil. any how who the hell voted for the cirstion party?!?!?!? come on post who u are, that is like 1000 times wores then consrivitves. i mean they whont to rejoin curch and state, thats nuts! region should not be a part of polictics. i just think that every one should be trated equally, and having private schools, and perviate health care is not treating poleop equacaly. i think that any one who thinks it is should try volotrying in the some of the class for diabled students in public schools. every one overlooks such things when it dose not effect them. just b/c some one is poor should not mean they get a worse editocaion or helath care then any one eltes, and that whould hapen with private helath care and is happing with privaet schools. if it did not no one whould pay for them. the only diffrence betwen the communism conotrys that poleop say are so evil and the U.S and are own is that we give the more rights to poleop with money. and how is that difrernt? well realy it is not, we just make it seem diffrent so we can think we are better then every one. the only reason it dose not show as much is b/c our conotrys are so much ritch then the communism ones. if a contry like russa was as ritch as the U.S. there standered of living whould probly be the same and they whould have the same rigths.

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:09 pm ]
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russia is no longer communist. and the reason it was not as rich as the us is because it was communist. communism does not allow for free enterprise, and when people don't get to work for themselves, they don't work as hard, and that IS a proven fact. all communist countries past and present have never been as rich as capitalist countries. and no matter how idealogical one may be, capitalism is still the best form of government for rights, and the advancement of society. and you saying that no matter how many facts and examples you put forth, i will not change my point of view, i say the same to you. we have both put forth many good points that support our opinion and political ideology, and just because im not bowing down to you and buckling to your will, doesn't mean i don't respect your point of view and opinons. i never said i didn't respect them. i don't recall every saying communism is evil, though it does not allow as many rights as a democratic country does. how rich a country is does not affect its amount of rights citizens can have. its the form of governemtn. communism is a form of authoritarian governemtn which makes use of an autocratic form of decision making (by a group of people who think "best" for the state). and i don't think people with more money have more rights, we can all practice freedom of religion, we can all say f++k to the government, we can all have education, and in the current system all have healthcare, and if we even had private healthcare, everyone would have access to it, it would not be reserved just for rich people, there are ways of making "poor" people able to have healthcare. anyways, i stay a capitalist and conservative, it has been what i have been brought up with, and it is what i belive in. i am not just changing my point of view on this just because you come out with some good points, there exist inside me a core set of values and beliefs which i wnat to stick to, and being a socialist would not satisfy those core beliefs. and i never said anything about education being private, i belive that should be for "free" or payment through taxes. and conservatives are not "bad" like you make them out be. the christain party is not bad, they just appeal to people with hardcore christain beliefs. i don't think i have every heard of a christian party saying anytyhing racist. and please remember it was lenin (the communist who helped found communist russia) who killed those who opposed him as well as foreigners at the beginning of communism's rise (which is racist).

Author:	Maverick [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:16 pm ]
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Communism "could" have been a good system of governement if they had a good leader. Every country tyhat has had communism possibly with the exception of Cuba had terrbile corrupt leaders. The reason i say Cuba is becuase before Castro came into office I beleive Batista was the leader and he was essentially the b!tch of the US. Castro came in and actually approved on Cuba and made it better, even tho its still pretty scheisse its much better.

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:19 pm ]
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the thing about cuba is that it did advance from what it previously was, but it has not advanced from thje state it is in. castro could be doing a better job though. and the thing about communist countries today, they are not even really "communist". china calls itself communist, but they allow free enterprise so that's not relaly communist, same with laos (i belive). im not too sure about cuba though, i don't know a lot about that.

Author:	Maverick [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:21 pm ]
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There has not really been a country that has done great with communism Cuba is actually on the better end. Ya but some countrys like u said arent fully communist. I think North Korea still is not sure.

Author:	Paul [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:26 pm ]
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Haha, you ppl will never experience wearing red scarves with millions of other kids... oh yea, I vote for conservatives, cause it looks like cervantes.

Author:	Dan [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:39 pm ]
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wow jonos you seem to have alot of iusse u need to reslove with your self there. i dont know where u are geitng all this agner stuff about me making you cahge your view. u seem to have been give a strong view point there, so much so u say things that have no basic in realty and if looked at objuecitve make no secen waht so ever shuch as "and if we even had private healthcare, everyone would have access to it" now i may not be 100% about the meaning of "private" somting tells me it dose not mean "veryone would have access to it". aslo about the cirstion parity they may have not been rasitcs but they are denfeantly pergisted, i mean just look at how mad they get about gay rights. also a region should have no place in state. it could do no good, it whould just make a basis for poleop of that region. if it did not there whould be no point. and if u think i am wrong about them being pergisted and even rasits some times look up some qoutes from partys like the christian coalition. here are some: note: pat is the head of the christian coalition Quote: "When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," Quote: "The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981 Quote: "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them."--Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991 Quote: (talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92 Quote: "The public education movement has also been an anti-Christian movement...We can change education in America if you put Christian principles in and Christian pedagogy in. In three years, you would totally revolutionize education in America." --Pat Robertson,"The 700 Club," September 27, 1993. Quote: "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."-- George Bush and yet poleop still like this guy? any how who cares about consrivtes, bigger isues witch is christian coalition. i hope they never get to much power but the truth is they all ready have it....

Author:	poly [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:45 pm ]
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does a wave for the communist party does a jig for the Green Party

Author:	Homer_simpson [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:50 pm ]
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and i am a nazi!!!! and a fan of hitler!

Author:	Paul [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:13 pm ]
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does a national socialist party exist in Canada? Homer gonna join?

Author:	jonos [ Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:18 pm ]
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i don't think i have issues, you were telling me that you think that i will never give up my faith in a "corrupted party". now go look at the liberals, a left leaning party, who are corrupt. why should i have to give up my faith in it,, you were implying that you should stop arguing with me because i wasn't agreeing with you. you can consider the conservatives corrupted, but how? christian stuff: ive never seen those quotes, though now i am no longer ignorant to their existence, though those are the beliefs of christians. those are beliefs sent doewn through the ages and from the bible. those are the beliefs of others, and though you may not agree with them, and i may not agree with them, that doesn't mean that they are wrong, they are the beliefs of others, which should be respected, which it seems like you don't want to. i didn't think i was sounding angry, i didn't mean to, but to me you sounded angry at your bashing of the conservatives, and remember, i have never in this thread or anywhere given support to the christian heritage, though some things i agree with, not the things against g a y people or the things against atheists and other religions. i didn't mean to seem angry, but to me in your comment about your stopping to giving "real" examples of things I got the impression that you were going to stop trying to convince me of your beliefs. i meant by saying stuff about the private healthcare thing was that people would still be able to access healthcare. i reworded it wrong. i meant that private healthcare should be made available, while medicare for those not able to afford it. therefore those who want private healthcare do not have to pay the taxes for medicare, while those who want medicare can still pay those taxes. also, you seem to give the impression that you don't like george bush for just saying that comment. i don't like that comment he made, but i would still support him. politicians try to represent and appeal to as many people as they can, which would lead to him saying that to appeal to many people to belive in that. i wasn't trying to give the impression that i had issues, maybe im just pissed off that the whole school system is controlled by socialist-liberal types which do not allow the right side opinions. i am currently reeling from a 30 minute rant i experienced in civics from my teacher to the whole class, where he bashed bush, bashed the conservatives, and bashed america as a whole. no teacher has a right to say stuff like that which is highly opinioniated just because they have a pulpit to speak from. maybe that is why i seem pissed off, but i am not, i, just like you, am trying to present my opinion in a debate. seriously, im not pissed off.

Author:	Dan [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:50 pm ]
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in an effort to end this debate i will not coment on all the things i find wrong with your staments about the conserivtes. alougth saying that the beliefs of the cirstion coltion should be respected is wrong in so many ways. lets look at thous qoutes more closly: (talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92 so to sum this up every person geting a equal vote is wrong, hummmm. and sice this is reffuing to the apartheid in south africa this is bring in race isues witch whould be black poleops votes should count less. When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," ohhhhhhh is this not nice that means if u are not cirstion or jewish you lose rights. wow and poleop listion to this guy. if u ask me this is worse then the comuist contorys you where saying where not nice to there poleop. at least they where not rasits or jerguisted about who they where oppersing (well most of them). why cant poleop just be equall, why most so many partys and poleop be agested this? is it b/c they are affred that if they are put on a fair plane as the rest of the wrold they whould be screwed b/c all theycan realy do is adcven in life by screwing over other poleop? life is scaret we should not go an bomb the hell out of it no mater what one person from there conotry, race or region did to us.

Author:	jonos [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:02 pm ]
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by saying respecting someones beliefs i meant respecting that they do have a point of view. just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that they are evil and wrong, it just means they have a different opinion. i respect your point of view, it doesn't mean that i agree with it though. and saying that people should be equal, no government (even communist) can say everyone is equal. there will always be richer, more powerful people in any government, and many will be richer and more powerful just because they support the government and get special treatment, which means they are not equal. everyone is equal in a democracy, the government does not say: you are poor so you are third class, you are well off so you are middle class, you are rich so you are 1st class. it is someone's disposition in life, and this still exists in communist countries. just because you all call eachother the same word (like comrade) doesn't mean that everyone is equal. i would like to quote something that da_foz quoted in the quotes thread: "Capitalism, it is said, is a system wherein man exploits man. And communism -- is vice versa. " and by saying that you cannot respect the opinions or persuasions of of others is just as bad as the hardcore christian parties saying that they don't like atheists and heathens. the conservatives believe everyone should be equal, that is the essence of democracy, and the conservatives are democratic. go to conservative.ca and nowhere there will you see anything about not everyone should be equal. and sometimes countries have to go to war to protect their way of life, there citizens, and their democracy. at the state the world is now, the european countries wouldn't have stopped hitler (except britain and ital maybe). the us would have sacrificed their resources, their war materials, their soldiers, to stop hitler. the un would be as useless as the league of nations. i just cannot understand why you cannot respect another's beliefs, and please provide evidence why the conservatives are corrupt and believe that no one should be equal.

Author:	Dan [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:17 pm ]
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wtf u talking about? u whont me to resptic the biffe that i should have fewwer rights b/c i am not cirstion. and u whont me to repsitck the bliffey that balck poleop should not get a say in elections?!?!?!?!?!? repsticing blifes comes to an end when they start hurting poleop. thats why canada has laws agaesed hate crims and say shit like that on t.v. some eps of the 700 club can not be played in canada b/c it breaks the hate crimes law. it is beond a bliffe when u take it to rasict and perguest levels the canadian govemnt aggremes with me here and thats why it is in the laws. i am not saying this b/c i hate cirstions or somting. if it was a atheists coltion that side the same things i whould dilike that orgations as well. it has nothing to do with region for me just for them b/c they need to use it as somting to put them selves above each other. i just can't blive u imply that u respect there ideasls when they are so rasicts. i understand u can respect poleops ideas and bifflecs with out bielving them your self but i can not respect them if they are blatly rastics and pergists agests other poleop. also i can not respect poleops ideas who are poorly formed and based on iggnrocane (not saying yours are i am talking about the cirstion coltion witch i have been for the last 3 posts. and for some reason u seem bent on defending) using your litte system of respect ideas there the KKK whould still be around today and trying to kill any one who is not white.

Author:	jonos [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:40 pm ]
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ok, you are right. i was not defending the beliefs of the christian coalition, i was defending the need to respect their beliefs. the pat person did not say that heathens would not get rights, he said they would not be allowed in government, and though i do not believe this is right, it is still different then those "heathens" not having rights. the ideas of the kkk will always be around, racism exists everywhere and will take a long time to end. maybe im not making myself clear enough with the respect issue. respecting the fact that others have opinions and have formulated those opinions by themselves or by the help of others and have thought hard about them and believe in them is great (the respect part). is it not important that we can respect other's opinions, as we respect other's races, or respect other's gods. i am not trying to defend the christian coalition (and if i was before it was my mistake through ignorance), but i am trying to defend the need to respect those opinions. i refuse to say anymore, because this should end, we both believe in what we want to believe and we are sticking to those so this is pointless. oh ya, yes, i also believe that the christian coalition's beliefs are based on ignorance, but i also respect the fact that they are their beliefs.

Author:	Dan [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:58 pm ]
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yes ending this whould be good, but i have to say some more. 1st of all acourding to the arican constion, being able to holed an govemnt postion is a right. this was also a big isue in the womens and black movments b/c they side women and blacks could not hold public office. also they are saying that they should not be citzecnts, witch takes atone of rigths away. also i do respect the fact that others can have diffrent bifflece but when they start imposing them on others like if saying that stuff it gets out of hand and needs to be stoped no matter what they say they are repseting (god or other wise). Quote: is it not important that we can respect other's opinions, as we respect other's races, or respect other's gods. dose that not get in to problems like how the crstion coltion's bifles are agested other races, regions and gods? also them whonting to join curch and state is not going to be good for other poleop that are not cirsiton. i can see how poleop think i am nuts of being so agest them b/c you say "who cares what buch of nuts in the u.s. thnk?" but the problem is they are almost in total conrotal of the U.S., they prity much own bush and the republican party. just think about how bush is trying to make it law in the costion that gay's cant mary...making him the 1st persident ever to take rights away from poleop in the constion. any how, i think it is posbale to have a world where there is non of this dum rasit crap, perduime and war. but just satnding buy will not get us there. think about it if we where to totaly get ride of the idea of recisium and live together in peac for just awhile the new gernations whould have no conspet of this crazyness. there is no reason why we have to be this way. it all comes from stuber poelop fixed in there ideas about how one races, fath or poleop are better then another. it is posable to live in peac but just not going to be easy to get there. NOTE: i whould just like to add that even tho i may seem angery in thess debates i never realy am, i just like debating and whould never go nuts and like ban some one for disagering with me . also i in no way whont poleop to agagry with me, it whould be no fun if u did

Author:	jonos [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:22 pm ]
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you are totally right about the whole racism and how it should be done away with. i will only say one thing against what you said, because like every debater, i want the last word, and you do to, so now its a competition who can get the last word in. anyways, many conservatives (not me though, im kind of like a newer, more open conservative), are against gay marriage, even if they are not religious. conservatives (and republicans) believe in the whole traditional family thing (even schwarzenegger), and that is against gay marriage. but i have a question i just want to get cleared up. you don't like the christian coalition, but are you against christians (just a simple question), because though some people at my church (im forced to go by my dictatorial parents) are racist, the great majority are open to immigrants and those of other races. and i whole heartedly agree with you about the racism present in the christian coalition, its stupid, and its prejudiced, and its not needed. and thankyou for clarifying that you respect that others have beliefs, that what i thought you didn't respect, and not respecting that is just as bad as saying things that coalition pig fuck said, so thankyou. and i also agree, that a state run by the church is not the best idea, look at iran (though it wouldn't be the same as that). our democracy would slowly turn into a theocracy which practically comes authoritarian. and if you've ever read a book called jupiter (forget the author), the leaders called the "new morality" have messed up the way things are. so, to hopefully end this, i respect your opinion, i am in awe of the arguments you avhe put forward (even my civics teacher hasn't had that many), and i was never scared you'd ban me, cause i know you're not an asshole, though i was waiting for maverick to just say "jonos better watch out dan will ban him" cause that would be funny. nice debating, hopefully we can find something else to debate about that is less about stuff ingrained into our minds and etched in stone as they are.

Author:	Dan [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:25 pm ]
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jonos wrote: but i have a question i just want to get cleared up. you don't like the christian coalition, but are you against christians (just a simple question), because though some people at my church (im forced to go by my dictatorial parents) are racist, the great majority are open to immigrants and those of other races. i whould hate the coalition no matter who it was run by as long as they whre racist. i do not like orgasided realgion at a hole. but that dose not mean i spiflky dislike poleop who are regiols, just that orgaise relgion seems to end up with poleop geting killed and such. so to awser that i am not against christians any more then i am agested any other orgased region. i repseted there blfies as long as they dont invale me or any one eltes that dose not whont them.

Author:	jonos [ Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:44 pm ]
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i also have something against organized religion, cause when im at churcha nd i actually listen sometimes it sounds like a cult saying insane things together. everyone says cults are evil and everything, but then a church is practically like the same thing, except their beliefs are orthodox and about god. and the comment about peple beloning to a religion and gettin gkilled is absolutely true. look what jihad has done, look what the catholics and the other guys (forget name) did to eachother in england in the 16/17 hundreds. its crazy.

Author:	PaddyLong [ Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:28 pm ]
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dude... the terms "organized religion" and "cult" might as well mean the same thing (they already pretty much do any way...) seriously, the world would be a much better place with no organized religion.

Author:	jonos [ Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:29 pm ]
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it depends on whose point of view also. without religion then where would education have come from, where would law and order come from. it would take a lot longer for htose to develop if there was no organized religion.

Author:	PaddyLong [ Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:53 pm ]
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or maybe they would have developed faster? or better? or maybe we'd still be in the stoneage... but what if life back then was better than it is today any how?

Author:	Dan [ Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:55 pm ]
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well no point i woring about that unless some one plans on making a time mashen or fidning a warmhole of some kind. since it is all devloped now all ready i think it is time to stop the crazyness. (i mean that is in stoping rasicum, pergiusme and stuff like that)

Author:	jonos [ Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:07 pm ]
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what's a worm hole. i agree with you, but it will take many years to stop the racism and prejudice, and stuff like that because its ingrained into society. it seems like i have not done anything without hearing or seeing the term np or npp*r which i think is messed up and not appropriate.

Author:	Paul [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:55 am ]
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jonos wrote: what's a worm hole. According to my years of Sci Fi book reading, its a rip in the fabric of timespace that is like a black hole but it leads you to elsewhere in the universe like a inter galactical tunnel.

Author:	Dan [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:49 pm ]
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or it can go throw time. witch was my point, that unless you are going to find one that gose back to the day region was invented there is no point in arguing about whtere region helped in a posive way at all in devoping govement. any how while we are on the topic of warm holes, any one wtach SG-1?

Author:	Maverick [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:58 pm ]
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i watch it occasionally but im not really a big fan of it.

Author:	jonos [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:44 pm ]
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is that stargate? ive heard of it but ive never watched it.

Author:	Dan [ Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:47 pm ]
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ya it is ok, a bit reptive at times tho.

Author:	Paul [ Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:47 pm ]
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ARG! Big human looking dudes wearing metal lizards with worms in their stomachs! I liked the first one, the movie one though.

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