Computer Science Canada Google result links take forever to load |
| Author: | Insectoid [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Google result links take forever to load |
This has been bugging me for a while now. Whenever I click a link on a google search results page, it takes forever to connect to Google for whatever reason before redirecting me to the link I clicked (ie, 'waiting for google.ca...'). If I highlight the link to the actual site and paste that into the address bar, thereby bypassing Google, it loads instantly. You'd think with Google's emphasis on speed this wouldn't happen. Does anyone know why it does, or how to work around it? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
For the most part, Google is insanely fast. Some of the requests are issued to multiple servers, in duplicate, and they race to give you (the same) response. I don't know what the deal is for your experience. Have you tried to setup an experiment with different computers, browsers, and ISPs? |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
I don't have other computers (or ISPs) to try it on, but it's the same across all browsers. It only happens sporadically, but when it does it's really annoying. Why am I waiting for Google when I'm trying to get to Wikipedia, or Reddit, or anything else? Why does it need to connect to Google at all? Could Google not integrate itself with Chrome to do any referral stuff in the background and load the page instantly? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
It connects to google to track click-through rates for particular queries. If the number 2 result is getting more clicks than number 1 result (adjusted for position weights), then it's a signal that number 2 result might be better. Try out https://duckduckgo.com/ -- it doesn't have this click-through tracking mechanism. |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Could Google not integrate the click-through tracking into Chrome in order to execute it while simultaneously loading the web page? It couldn't be that hard to do and I can't imagine any obvious downsides. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Insectoid @ Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:49 pm wrote: I can't imagine any obvious downsides.
70% of people that don't use Chrome... The redirect is not supposed to be slow (this is why this needs to be tested with other setups). I suspect that something else is up. E.g. your ISP is also tracking your Google clicks, as that data could be sold. Not that crazy of an idea -- at some point Bell messed around with YouTube pages to overwrite the video source location (presumably to cut down on bandwidth costs via site-specific proxy) and totally broke everything. |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Quote: 70% of people that don't use Chrome...
Google can identify non-Chrome browsers, can't they? So give them the standard treatment while giving Chrome a bit of a boost. As long as there's no antitrust crap involved it should work, shouldn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if it's my ISP. My ISP is not good. Shaw is the quality connection 'round these parts. Quote: E.g. your ISP is also tracking your Google clicks, as that data could be sold
Is this common practice? I'd rather not be paying for a subscription if they're profiting off my activity. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
I don't think having such tight coupling between two completely different products is a good idea. There are some exceptions where it things would simply not work otherwise, but in this case a general solution is a better approach from Engineering standpoint. Profiting from just tracking your searches is not even as devious as outright injecting (or replacing) ads on various websites -- http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/how-a-banner-ad-for-hs-ok/ |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Quote: Profiting from just tracking your searches is not even as devious as outright injecting (or replacing) ads on various websites
Not at all. That's downright abominable. I'd just like to benefit somehow from giving up my information. Facebook and Google give me something in exchange for my data. What's my ISP giving me? Diddly squat, that's what. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Well your ISP is giving you internet, but they do an evil job of it. Hopefully Google Fibe puts enough pressure on ISPs to actually charge fair prices. Legally they are probably allowed to inject ads, but it is def illegal for them to replace a website's ads with their own. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Google result links take forever to load |
No. He's already paying for the internet. It's just that some ISPs like to argue that they are not really a common carrier and mess around with the data they transmit. Since the Postal Service seems to be the standard example for a common carrier... mirhagk @ Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:16 pm wrote: Legally they are probably allowed to [stuff ads in the mail envelopes they deliver]...
Which would obviously make people upset. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Google result links take forever to load |
You're using Chrome right? Check your proxy settings, and under "LAN settings" disable "Automatically detect settings" if it's enabled. See if it's faster now. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Well if you give the post office permission to attach ads to all the mail you get, then they might be allowed to. I agree it's a dick move, but I don't know if it's within their ToS, it might still be legal. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
In the U.S. it is a federal offense to tamper with mail. My understanding is that it's the same way in Canada (covered by RCMP), but as typical it's more difficult to find Canada specific sources to cite. |
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| Author: | Nathan4102 [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Yeah, it is a federal offense to tamper with mail in Canada. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
Yeah I'm agreeing with you guys that it's a dick move on the ISP's part and SHOULD be illegal, but just because it's illegal with mail doesn't mean it's illegal with internet, those laws are quite behind where they should be. So my original point is that they probably are allowed to (they shouldn't be allowed to), but my major point was that covering up other ads is for sure illegal, and you could get them on that anyways. It's 100% wrong, and should be illegal, but I'm saying you can already go after them for this because that part (covering other ads) is for sure illegal, whereas the other part might still be iffy legality-wise(it's not iffy morality-wise) |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Google result links take forever to load |
mirhagk @ Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:46 pm wrote: that part (covering other ads) is for sure illegal, whereas the other part might still be iffy legality-wise(it's not iffy morality-wise)
How so? That is, what is to prevent them from including that part in TOS and call it a day? Injected content is injected content. I'm having a hard time seeing how you would argue that one iframe is okay, but the same iframe located 100 pixels to the side is a big no. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
If your computer asks for information, and it doesn't respond with any of what it asked for, that is clearly a problem. Covering up ads isn't really what I was talking about, it was more about how they replaced ads, thereby not giving you what you asked for. I have a feeling that there are laws around removing ads from content and redelivering that information, cuz I feel like media companies would care about that, use their money to get it in the states, then canada would copy it. Although I could be wrong, I'm just going on gut opinion, trying to find something that is currently illegal, not just should be illegal. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Google result links take forever to load |
mirhagk @ Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:32 pm wrote: If your computer asks for information, and it doesn't respond with any of what it asked for, that is clearly a problem. Covering up ads isn't really what I was talking about, it was more about how they replaced ads, thereby not giving you what you asked for.
The effect is the same, it's just a matter of implementation. If my browser requests a page of compsci.ca and the ISP delivers: - a page of their own forums - a page where compsci.ca ads have been replaced with ISP ads - a page where ISP ads have been added in addition to compsci.ca ads in all 3 cases the response was not what had been requested. |
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| Author: | Dan [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Google result links take forever to load |
If I remember correctly I use the same ISP and they would be a common carrier as it is over phone lines (i.e. they don't get the exemption that cable does). From my experience with them it is far more likely that they are just massively incompetent then trying to intercept and edit web traffic. For the record I get no delay when making requesting to Google.ca or Google.com however I do use my own DNS and try to use HTTPS for everything possible. Try a different DNS and see if anything changes, also try a trace-route to Google.ca and Google.com and see what comes up. If you are paranoid about your ISP looking at your Google search results try using HTTPS version of Google (https://encrypted.google.com/) or even try the https everywhere plugin (https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere). Or as Tony suggested use https://duckduckgo.com/ if you don't want any one tracking you at all. As for the law, I believe Tony is correct and any kind of manipulation or editing of communication over a common carrier is illegal in Canada as per the Telecommunication Act, which should cover most dial-up, cell based and DSL ISPs. I am not sure, but even passively recording user's search requests and then selling that data might violate the Act for common carriers. |
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