Computer Science Canada Leap 3D Motion Control System |
| Author: | Insectoid [ Tue May 22, 2012 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Leap 3D Motion Control System |
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/21/3033634/leap-3d-motion-control-system-video I found this on reddit. Looks neat. I want one. The general consensus seems to be that there are 2 major issues with this: -Developer adoption -Arms getting tired Most experimental touch/spacial interfaces suffer these faults, so it's reasonable to assume Leap will fail the same way. However, I do not believe this to be the case. Concerning developer adoption: This interface has the convenient benefit of near zero need for developer adoption. Why? Because it isn't a new interface, it's just a new shape for the mouse. Unless the founder is an idiot, this thing is gonna ship with a mouse driver. Plug it in, install, bam. Instant support for every mouse-based application. And since you only use the mouse with one hand, the other is free to use the keyboard. Older interface 'solutions' ditched the keyboard, but Leap complements it. Likely Leap's driver will contain a comprehensive gesture library so the end user can map different gestures to different keys, buttons & macros. With Kinect, we saw the issues with adoption. There were initially very few games and no good ones, so a lot of players waited to buy it. Because there were so few players, developers didn't bother making many games. In the case of Leap, nearly every game you own is already compatible. Developers don't even have to be aware that Leap exists, because their programs are compatible weather they intended it or not. Devs will, if anything, be happy to have more 'input bandwidth' than a standard 2-button mouse & keyboard, and to have the option to include Leap-specific support. I imagine menu interfaces could be heavily optimized for Leap, the same way they're pessimizing console menus. As for arms getting tired, this is also a non-factor. The article mentions adjustable sensitivity. Wave your arms around all you want, but I'm gonna rest my wrist on my desk and lazily twitch my fingers. Wouldn't surprise me to find people discussing and sharing their gesture bindings to optimize the ergonomics. This project has huge potential. It's cool, so people are interested in it. it doesn't require a massive OS re-design. It isn't prohibitively expensive. It doesn't take anything away from the user. It's already compatible with all keyboard/mouse applications for Windows and OS X. 10/GUI, on the other hand, was destined to fail. It required expensive hardware. It required a completely new interface paradigm totally incompatible with existing systems. It took users out of their comfort zones. Leap however is wondrously designed to succeed. What do you guys think? Plausible? Garbage? The way of the future? |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue May 22, 2012 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
The physical gestures are the weakest part of kinect in my (and many people I know) opinion(s). The coolest part about kinect is the fact that it can filter out just your voice anywhere in a room (which you will realize is amazing if you've ever used a desktop mic), and it can respond to voice commands (quite easily). Other than the occasional running around being an idiot with family playing Kinect sports, I wouldn't use the motion gestures for games, no matter how precise they were. A physical keyboard/mouse or controller is always more precise, and provides tactile feedback of whether it worked or not. (It's like comparing a touchscreen keyboard to a mechanical keyboard). The thing I use in games is the voice commands (fus ro DAH!) which can actually save so much time because of the number of commands that are possible (for instance in skyrim you can say "equip" and then a great number of types of items and it will equip it for you). And in the non-game areas the gestures get even more pointless. If I'm too lazy to reach over for the controller, I'm too lazy to wave to the screen, then do a preset motion. The "xbox pause" is something I actually use because it requires very little time and effort (although it still takes a second to happen, which is an area they could improve). What I think of LEAP is that they took the worst part of the Kinect, and improved that. It's like improving the touchscreen keyboard for a laptop. No matter how good it gets, I'm only going to use it as long as it's new and exciting (ie five seconds). |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Tue May 22, 2012 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
It's the convenience of not reaching for your mouse. Of not having to move the curser to the button, 'cause you can just point at it. The mouse is slow and even you agree with that. It's our big bottleneck and it needs to be replaced. This is a strong contender. I can rest my wrist on my laptop case and point anywhere on the screen without more than my finger. I don't even have to take my hand off the keyboard (which I do to reach my mouse). Imagine using this a lot for web browsers. Scroll with a flick of the thumb would be far, far faster than a mouse wheel or trackpad. Switch tabs with a wave of your hand. The entire keyboard argument is moot, because this does not replace the keyboard (it could, but that would be dumb). Because my wrist is on the laptop case, a lightly vibrating chip built into the computer could provide tactile feedback (the Macbook layout has lots of wristroom). If anything, this would remove the need for a trackpad to free up a ton of space. You absolutely would not use this like kinect. This is for computer use. It has a 4 square foot 'stage'. Your fingers would be mere inches from the screen. In FPS-style games, I imagine using joystick-like gestures (as demonstrated here) as opposed to pointing at what you're aiming at. I disagree about voice recognition, but only applied to Leap. It's cool on Kinect when you can't reach the controller but otherwise, speaking is slow and solves no problems and has no place in Leap. Quote: I'm too lazy to wave to the screen, then do a preset motion. Again, this isn't Kinect. There's no waving. Ideally, it would be as natural as Apple's trackpad gestures.
Continuing your Skyrim example, I think it would be badass to actually shout the...well, shouts but I doubt I'd often use it. Binding each menu to a gesture would put every menu in instant access (the default is awful and it takes like 5 clicks to switch items). For example, you could define a 2-finger point gesture at the bottom left corner of the screen that opens the favorites menu. You'd have to take your fingers off the WASD keys, but by Skyrim's own design, opening the favorites menu pauses the game so it doesn't matter. Put your fingers back, the menu closes, and the game resumes (btw, I got to level 20 before I even knew this menu existed- that's how bad Skyrim's UI is). You could swing a melee weapon by mimicking a sword with your index finger, or you could just tap your thumb on your hand. You could draw a bow by pinching your thumb and forefinger and 'drawing it back'...like a bow. Cast spells by mimicking the in-game animation. You could make it as involved or basic as you want. Dual-wielding is harder to solve I admit, but that's a skyrim-specific problem (how many games dual-wield where right&left clicks control left&right arms?). Kinect's gestures are really imprecise, which limits the number of available gestures. Leap is extremely accurate, so there's theoretically as many possible gestures as you can reliably and distinctively reproduce with your hand. At any rate, for $70 USD, I'd gladly buy one, if only so I can experiment and write applications for it. There's no risk in the buy, like there was with the HP Touchpad. Hell, it's the same price as Apple's mouse, and I know which I'd rather have. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue May 22, 2012 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
The remark about having to wave to the screen still stands. How does the system know when I am moving my fingers to control it, or moving my fingers because I'm fidgeting or reaching for a paper or something. The reason kinect requires a hand wave is to tell the device to listen. I don't see a good solution to this problem in LEAP, and without an action that you are unlikely to do by accident, you will accidentally do all sorts of things you didn't mean to. One important thing to note is that without any solid devices for input, you might not know where exactly is ground 0 for things. For instance with the thumbsticks, where exactly should your thumbs be to not move? Granted gestures don't need a ground 0, but non-gesture input needs a reference location (and imagine having to keep moving you thumb forward to just walk forward, it would be hugely annoying) |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Moving your thumbs forward? I was talking about a joystick, not a thumb nub. Ground zero doesn't matter. It's the orientation and movement of your hand that defines the gesture, not the location. The stage is easily big enough to not accidentally leave it. There's certainly no 'ground zero' on my trackpad (I know some have a scroll bar on them). You get a 2D space for 2D gestures. This gives you a 3D space for 3D gestures. This thing tracks your whole hand. It can create a wireframe model of your hand in real time. You can use very specific gestures that you accurately recreate every time. If you're worried about fidgeting, just make sure none of your gestures are fidget-ish. I suppose I'll wait until I have one to make final judgement, but I'm optimistic. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue May 22, 2012 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
What is the proposed system for walking? Because games take the route of either holding down a key, or holding a thumbstick (or joystick) in a direction. Neither of those are gestures, and as I said a gesture based system for something constant like walking would suck. By the way your trackpad does have a reference point, wherever you first placed your finger. Trackpads, mice and scrollbars all have the advantage of removing your finger from the device to stop recording your finger's location. Basically the gestures would have to be distinct from moving your hand back to a comfortable position, which might be hard (not impossible) to do for movement actions in 3D space (even 2D). You also have to remember that the sensor can be as precise as you want, doesn't mean the user will be (especially without something physical to know their position). The sensor could easily tell whether the user's finger is pointed in the direction of the close button or the maximize button, but the user probably can't. This is beneficial in some applications (for instance a game where fine movement control is the ) but horrible in others. That means for specialized applications this is awesome, but is not the best for general use. |
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| Author: | jr5000pwp [ Tue May 22, 2012 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Personally, I'd rather have a mouse/keyboard/gamepad because of the ease of using them, the amount of relaxation you can have, and the minimal amount of muscular movements they require. That being said, something such as the leap is a neat device, and is amazing, until your arm gets sore. I would buy these new products such as leap, but I am not going to replace my trusty mouse and keyboard any time in the near future. |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Tue May 22, 2012 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: What is the proposed system for walking?
Hold down W? Like we've done for decades? I've said (more than once I think) that the keyboard isn't replaced. Quote: Basically the gestures would have to be distinct from moving your hand back to a comfortable position
Hence 2-finger waves, and motions you simply never would do otherwise. Quote: You also have to remember that the sensor can be as precise as you want, doesn't mean the user will be (especially without something physical to know their position).
Trivialized with a crosshair, then the user will get used to it. Do you think we were good with mice naturally? Hell no, we've just used it so long we're well practised. I imagine mastering common gestures in a few hours at worst. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Wed May 23, 2012 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
I've noticed from using gesture technology (gesture touch pads [apple or otherwise], android's swype, kinect's gestures) that people's performance with it gets worse, not better. This obviously isn't a tested fact, and you can't go off of ad hoc observations, but it makes sense that once the "coolnes" of the technology wears off, you become less focused, and more lazy. LEAP could be cool, but it might at most replace the mouse, and for $60 instead of $5 (unless your dumb and buy apple products, or a crazy gamer and buy gamer mice, which would be much more precise in gaming scenarios than LEAP) it isn't likely to be a revolution. It's neat technology, just not something new, and not revolutionary. |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Wed May 23, 2012 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: It's neat technology, just not something new, and not revolutionary.
Well, it's the cheapest and most accurate consumer motion-control system ever created. That's revolutionary if I do say so myself. Quote: I've noticed from using gesture technology (gesture touch pads [apple or otherwise], android's swype, kinect's gestures) that people's performance with it gets worse, not better.
Bullshit. Makes sense for xbox, where the gestures really are a gimmick because they suck. Everyone I know who owns a modern mac uses gestures all the time. Every. Single. Person. Maybe not all of them (there's a lot), but the common ones. Scrolling, zooming, rotating, window switching, etc. Quote: LEAP could be cool, but it might at most replace the mouse, and for $60 instead of $5 (unless your dumb and buy apple products, or a crazy gamer and buy gamer mice, which would be much more precise in gaming scenarios than LEAP) it isn't likely to be a revolution.
Do you think the first, crappy commercial trackball mouse costed $5? The first optical mouse? Hell no. And have you seen the magic mouse? It's a trackpad and mouse in one. You can use Apple gestures on it. I'm not personally a fan of it, but it's certainly worth the cost if a trackpad/mouse is what you want. This is the first-gen edition. First-gen is (almost) always expensive. It's always got a few issues. The price will certainly drop in a few years, and like I said, $60 isn't prohibitively expensive. Enough people can afford it that it's viable *right now*. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
You have a very accepting definition of revolutionary. Making something cheaper and better is simply natural progression, and something that will happen eventually with any decent technology. Whether there would've been a kinect 2.0 is debatable because the success of Kinect wasn't that awesome, and the interest in motion controls is dying off because it's no longer new and cool (although it wasn't when kinect came out either, it was just new to most people because previous attempts didn't advertise well enough). And your right insectoid, this is the first gen, but whether there will actually be a 2nd gen, or just another company to jump on board with a better version is the question (history with motion controls has shown us the latter is more likely). LEAP is a great new competitor, but they aren't exactly breaking new ground here, just kinda digging deeper in a hole that other companies have abandoned (Sony abandoned it years ago, Microsoft's interest is starting to die off, although it's still strong). |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Thu May 24, 2012 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
You seem to be of the opinion that motion control will never be good enough to use day-to-day, in which case debating this is pointless. 'Revolutionary' literally means 'to cause a revolution'. The mouse has been relatively unchanged since it was first created- if this replaced it on a large scale, that would be revolutionary. Might wanna pick up a dictionary before you tell me I don't know the words I'm using. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Thu May 24, 2012 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
lol insectoid, I was accepting your definition of revolution, just pointing out that your accepting a lot as revolutionary. If your really don't understand that revolution can be entirely subjective look at the definition of revolution: "a sudden, complete or marked change in something". Marked change? Sudden? both of those are subjective words, in the vast expanse of time, anything that happens within a lifetime is sudden. With technology however sudden usually tends to be a much quicker time frame (maybe a year or two), also marked change is subjective. Technically every piece of technology causes a change, so it's subjective whether or not something actually causes a significant change. now that we're done this useless argument about what the word revolution means, and have pulled the obligatory dictionaries out (always a sign the discussion has been reduced to primitive insults, name-calling and trolling), can we get back to actual discussions? |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
The mouse has been unanimously used in every corner of the world as the pointing device on computers since it was created. To date, nothing has significantly altered the design of the mouse, since its invention 50 years ago. I argue that Leap has the potential to replace the mouse in a span of years. If the device is hyped up before release and has a low enough price tag, it will see massive adoption within weeks. Even 2 years is a very quick time to replace a 50-year monopoly on curser control, let alone weeks. The scope of the change is also significant. This could affect every person that currently uses a mouse. This has the potential to end a 50-year global monopoly in weeks or months. If you don't consider that revolutionary, could you give an example of what is? Quote: now that we're done this useless argument about what the word revolution means, and have pulled the obligatory dictionaries out...
You 'pulled the dictionaries out' by challenging my definition of 'revolutionary'. I summarily explained why I was correct in my usage. Quote: ...always a sign the discussion has been reduced to primitive insults, name-calling and trolling
I don't see any primitive insults or name-calling anywhere in this thread by any party involved. Only proper debate. However, you don't seem to be reading any answers, because a lot of your arguments are repeated as if I'd never answered in the first place, so if I seem hostile, that's why. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Thu May 24, 2012 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Insectoid @ Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 pm wrote: If the device is hyped up before release and has a low enough price tag, it will see massive adoption within weeks.
Wow that is quite optimistic considering they are about 6 months from the release date and the majority of even tech oriented people have yet to even hear about it. It is also quite optimistic considering the fact that most people typically haven't jumped at the seams to grab new technology. The only company able to push out an entirely new concept to widespread adoption even with years has been Apple (which have taken ideas, improved them a bit, marketed like crazy, and got widespread adoption. Now the only marketing they need is making it white, and adding an apple logo, but I digress). 1 or 2 years to get semi-widespread adoption (as in most people know what it is, and everyone knows someone who uses it) is a realistic goal if this kicks off. Insectoid @ Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 pm wrote: However, you don't seem to be reading any answers, because a lot of your arguments are repeated as if I'd never answered in the first place, so if I seem hostile, that's why.
My points have been similiar, just as your counters have been similar. The fact is that I am not optimistic about a technology that is already in use, and has been in use for years and years to suddenly spark everyone's interest just because they have made it more accurate and cheaper. Yes this will be successful, but I doubt it will be much more successful than previous attempts (Do you know how many PDA's and tablets were released before they became widespread? Do you know how many voice control systems were released before they became known to most people (and most people still don't even use them, despite the years of work in making them as good as they can, because it's not perfect, and it takes just as long to type it out as it does to say it for most people). Don't get me wrong, this company might make some good money, and might even get a great product out there, but it's only a matter of time until someone else takes the idea, builds it into their computer more tightly, colours it white, and puts a picture of an apple on it. (<-- just a joke, but realistically another company will likely either buy it up, or produce their own within a year) |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Thu May 24, 2012 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: Wow that is quite optimistic considering they are about 6 months from the release date and the majority of even tech oriented people have yet to even hear about it.
The company only recently revealed itself, and you expect everyone to know about it? They haven't even started advertising yet. Quote: The fact is that I am not optimistic about a technology that is already in use, and has been in use for years and years to suddenly spark everyone's interest just because they have made it more accurate and cheaper.
The entire problem with these setups WAS accuracy and price. This system simply isn't feasible without high accuracy. Even modern voice control is still too clumsy for general use. Most of the time, buttons are still faster. That's why it's not very popular. But if someone released a flawless natural voice processor tomorrow, within a year or two it would be in everything. Leap is the same way, except now that 'perfect' solution potentially exists. You're stuck in the 'this is what they've got, and this is why it sucks' mindset. I prefer to think 'this is what they've got so far, imagine where they'll take it from here'. It can only get better, not worse. Quote: Don't get me wrong, this company might make some good money, and might even get a great product out there, but it's only a matter of time until someone else takes the idea, builds it into their computer more tightly, colours it white, and puts a picture of an apple on it.
That wouldn't be a bad thing. I'd trust Apple more than anyone to perfect this product. If they make you pay out the ass for it, damn. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Fri May 25, 2012 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Of course apple would make your pay out the ass for it, either that or it'd be decently priced but would only work with the newest macs for some unknown reason (*cough* siri *cough*). Anyways with the LEAP, this could indeed be the direction that we're heading but we're far from massive adoption. This kind of stuff might be cool, but again I prefer precision, and a physical device will be more precise (not necessarily the device itself, but my own control of it). What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that. The reason people have voice control on their phones nowadays is because they are automatically installed, if they were just regular apps, people would be too lazy to go out, pay money, and buy them (going out being metaphorically speaking because it'd be on an app store, so the effort would be minimum). EDIT: I'm going to make myself clear, I do hope this does pan out, motion control technology is cool, and can lead to all sorts of things that I could REALLY use (for instance the ability to scan real world objects and transform them into 3D models for use in video games, movies etc. Would remove the requirement of having to draw in order to make a good game). I really hope LEAP works out, I'm just doubtful that this will get widely adopted anytime soon (maybe a couple years down the road, unless a big company forces them into the hands of people. like webcams and voice control) |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that.
That's the worst thing I can imagine happening to this product. Remember everything I said about developer adoption and not needing it? This would instantly invalidate that entire point. Siri is crap anyway. I don't care if I don't have it on my hypothetical phone. Having Apple in charge of it is a sure way to guarantee funding for it though. Quote: unless a big company forces them into the hands of people. like webcams
You're deluded if you think webcams required a 'big company forcing them into the hands of people'. Even considering the crap quality, the ability to talk to long-distance friends via video chat in real time was too good for people to pass up. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Fri May 25, 2012 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Insectoid @ Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm wrote: That's the worst thing I can imagine happening to this product. Remember everything I said about developer adoption and not needing it? This would instantly invalidate that entire point.
I agree 100% that that would be the worst thing that could happen to it, but it's also one that would get it more widely adopted quicker. It's the concept of having Siri (or any voice control) on your phone and actually using it. It's useless unless somebody makes apps for it. However it might also be better for developers as more people would have it. Insectoid @ Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm wrote: You're deluded if you think webcams required a 'big company forcing them into the hands of people'. Even considering the crap quality, the ability to talk to long-distance friends via video chat in real time was too good for people to pass up.
No webcams didn't require it, but the reason webcams are so widespread is because they come in pretty much every laptop in existence, they don't require extra peripherals. Given enough time webcams would have become widespread regardless, but integrating it into laptops sure sped up the process (turned it from being a side feature of chat programs into a fully fledged feature on it's own programs, ie skype) EDIT: By the way if you do the math, this effectively has about a 1ft x 1ft x 1ft and Kinect has about 6ft x 6ft x 6ft, so this being 100 times more accurate is really just simple math, looking at a smaller area (considering Kinect has 4x the resolution that they are using, because of processing restrictions, resolution isn't the problem, it's the processing, so shrink the area, shrink the required computations). And considering Kinect has a depth sensor, RGB cameras, and a microphone array for $120, this being $69 (btw kinect was supposed to be $99 but they had to jack up the cost before they released it, so don't be surprised if the same happens here) is really just a product of removing the microphone array. This isn't so much ground breaking technology as using existing technology and reapplying it for a different purpose. |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Fri May 25, 2012 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: integrating it into laptops sure sped up the process
And you define this as forcing it down consumers' throats? It's the logical course of action! If Leap takes off, I've no doubt it will be integrated into laptops fairly quickly. Quote: I agree 100% that that would be the worst thing that could happen to it, but it's also one that would get it more widely adopted quicker. Why would it get adopted quicker? Half of my first post is dedicated to explaining why EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE would cause faster widespread adoption. Did you not read it? If you want to claim the opposite of my hypothesis is true, explain point by point why I am wrong.
Quote: This isn't so much ground breaking technology as using existing technology and reapplying it for a different purpose.
Are the two mutually exclusive? Quote: By the way if you do the math, this effectively has about a 1ft x 1ft x 1ft and Kinect has about 6ft x 6ft x 6ft...(and the rest of this paragraph)
What does this have to do with anything? Sure, that might be why it's more accurate. I don't care if that's why it's more accurate. The fact is, it's more accurate, and if they can make it more accurate by not sampling a bigger area than they need to, then that's a great way to do it! |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Fri May 25, 2012 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
You could replicate the leap system with a kinect device, removing the microphones (and rgb camera? the video doesn't work so I don't know if LEAP has it) and accepting the higher resolution in a smaller sampling region. It's a different application of the exact same (minus a bunch of neat features in kinect) technology, rather than brand new ground breaking technology. And yes putting the device integrated into other products is forcing it down consumers throats. The cost of a webcam (or LEAP) is neglible compared to the cost of a computer, so people will buy computers with them, not really caring for the LEAP and preferring not to waste the money, but the alternatives being either crappier computers, or much more expensive computers. By the way your first post didn't talk about whether developers would adopt it quicker,but rather that it wouldn't need developer adoption. I was saying throwing it into every device under the sun would increase DEVELOPER adoption because developers would be more likely to consider the device when making applications (yes you could use the leap as a mouse in any game, but it only gets really useful once the developer optimizes the controls/menus for LEAP) |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Fri May 25, 2012 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: I was saying throwing it into every device under the sun would increase DEVELOPER adoption because developers would be more likely to consider the device when making applications
Quote: What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that.
'integrating it into something' is very different from 'throwing it into every device under the sun'. Will you please take the care to explain your position more clearly to avoid any confusion in the future? Quote: By the way your first post didn't talk about whether developers would adopt it quicker,but rather that it wouldn't need developer adoption.
I talked about how the lack of need for developer adoption could spark high initial sales, which in turn sparks developer adoption. You're proposing integrating it into, say, laptops, so people get it weather they want it or not, to force early high adoption, to spark developer adoption. Essentially the same thing. I'm proposing that this will do well on its own, without the help of integration. You think nobody will want it, so it has to be forced into the market. I'm sorry you're so pessimistic. Quote: The cost of a webcam (or LEAP) is neglible compared to the cost of a computer, so people will buy computers with them, not really caring for the LEAP and preferring not to waste the money, but the alternatives being either crappier computers, or much more expensive computers.
The first computer that ships with this will have 'Integrated LEAP technology!!!' plastered all over the box. It will be the selling feature of that laptop. It will be the reason people buy it. Quote: You could replicate the leap system with a kinect device, removing the microphones (and rgb camera? the video doesn't work so I don't know if LEAP has it) and accepting the higher resolution in a smaller sampling region. It's a different application of the exact same (minus a bunch of neat features in kinect) technology, rather than brand new ground breaking technology.
You could replicate a video camera by using a motor to wind a bunch of stitched-together film across a lens. But I suppose that wasn't brand new ground breaking technology either. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Sat May 26, 2012 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
lol, I'm saying kinect with a firmwire upgrade could be the exact same device. Every person I know has lost interest in motion controls, I've shown this to other tech people, hoping to hear so optimism about it, but most people go, oh that's neat I guess, and go back to what they are doing. Also I REALLY hope people don't buy a laptop because of some peripheral (even though I know that people do, just look at what laptop's put on their covers for advertising) |
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| Author: | Insectoid [ Sat May 26, 2012 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
Quote: Every person I know has lost interest in motion controls
It's hard to stay interested when every previous attempt didn't work. Commercial motion control systems are historically crap. People lose interest because to date no system has been released that is accurate enough actually use. If cell phones were still the size of a brick, I'm sure people would've lost interest long ago. But as soon as the tech was made small and powerful enough to be convenient, it was really popular. Quote: I'm saying kinect with a firmwire upgrade could be the exact same device
That simply shows how brutally ignorant you are of how this technology works. Also, this point is moot, because even if it's so easy to do, nobody has done it before. I don't understand what the relationship this has with kinect has to do with its viability or level of revolutionariness. It's a different product serving a different purpose, using similar technology in a similar price-range. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Sat May 26, 2012 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Leap 3D Motion Control System |
I'm telling you that it's not revolutionary technology. It's the same tech, just targeting a different market. Also note that current trends are that more consumers are going with laptops/tablets/phones over desktops. This technology might be good when you have a nice area in front of your screen, and where it's not wierd for you to wave your hand around in your house, but even my current position, where I'm in the comfort of my own house, would make it difficult to use this (lying on my bed with a laptop). You'd need a trackpad for all those occasions where this couldn't be used (not enough space, or basically whenever your not playing a game [ie not using the mouse very much]). At best it could supplement the mouse/trackpad, but as this tech stands it could not replace it. I love seeing new technology, and advancements in technology, and I love motion controls, but this won't take off very much (pre-warning, I'll necro this a couple months after it's release, or in a year's time [whichever comes sooner] to tell you I told you so) |
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