Computer Science Canada Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
| Author: | tedbean [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
I have no ideas about programming 
Which degree will give me most computer knowledge from programming to website design and php staff. Bachelor of Science? Information system? Information technology? Software engineering? I don't have good physics understanding btw. I am not interested in business data stuff. Do I need advanced maths? What is php? I also don't understand anything programming 
Please help me to become a computer specialist and help me get through the computer study. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
tedbean @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm wrote: I also don't understand anything programming 
So how do you figure that this is something that you want to pursue? |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Tony @ 2012-01-17, 12:24 pm wrote: tedbean @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm wrote: I also don't understand anything programming
So how do you figure that this is something that you want to pursue? Isn't it obvious? He wants to make lots of money! Who cares if he enjoys the field in which he'll spend the rest of his life working! Given the quality of the English and focus on "website design and php staff" I'd say arts might be the best place. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Tony @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:24 am wrote: tedbean @ Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm wrote: I also don't understand anything programming
So how do you figure that this is something that you want to pursue? I want a job. There are many jobs out there, I have been comparing those for a long time now. It looks like the computing programming would be a really good job for me (I am not sure about my IQ though  ). I also want to work anytime I want and not many jobs allow that. I also want a desk job. I love typing keyboard  |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Are you in high school? Take a computer science course in your high school if you can. If you can't then look at tutorials and stuff online, and try to figure out how to do it. Or you could take a course on computer science. Regardless, I'd suggest you know a bit about programming before you spend $10 000 a year on a program you may not like. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
@md, arts could be good but I am not Picasso  |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
mirhagk @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:21 am wrote: Are you in high school? Take a computer science course in your high school if you can. If you can't then look at tutorials and stuff online, and try to figure out how to do it. Or you could take a course on computer science.
Regardless, I'd suggest you know a bit about programming before you spend $10 000 a year on a program you may not like. I am trying, that is how I found out about this forum. The programming languages (eg Java and C) look so difficult, why so many {{{{{}}}}} ( ) [ ]] , I am so confused. I am not in high school, left long ago. I really need to retrain my brain, it is going to be really tough though!  |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Well I'd suggest looking into a quick night class, or online course on intro to computer science. If you want a language to first learn with, Turing is arguably the simplest to learn, and C# with Visual studio is great to start out, as it's similar to C and Java, and it has many features that help you learn all of the language, and remember how to use different parts. |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
tedbean @ 2012-01-17, 1:27 pm wrote: @md, arts could be good but I am not Picasso
Arts != fine arts. If you're truly interested in developing software I would suggest starting with the basics (there are lots of good tutorials both on this site and others) and see if you enjoy it enough to work at it on your own. If you can't get into programming as a hobby then you will likely not enjoy writing code for a living and certainly won't be very good at it if you do decide to go that route. Once you've decided that you do want to work writing software then you can decide if you want to go the CS/Engineering route or go through a college program. The merits of each depend a lot on what you want to do and what your skills are and the best way of figuring that out is really to try a bunch of different things. |
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| Author: | OneOffDriveByPoster [ Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Just to throw it out there: Are you actually interested in programming or just IT in general? There are lots of non-programming jobs out there in IT which is not simply data entry. System or network administration and configuration for example. |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
The poster seems to want to make their own hours and work at a desk job with a keyboard, this would imply a programmer. (or a mundane data entry job) |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
@md, what does this != mean? @Oneoffdrive, I want to become a computer specialist not involved in the business side of things, I find the financial data boring. I don't want administrative jobs, I want a job I can work anytime anywhere I want. I don't even know what is developing software! I know the hardware is the things I can touch like the keyboard and mobile phone; my understanding of software is the things on the screen, they change just like TV programs. They are 'soft' because they don't have a concrete existence. I will definitely start the degree in March this year, it will involve maths and intro to programming. There are a number of unis offering computer degrees, I am applying for all of them. The software engineering degree seems the hardest one because it needs physics and maths (I really don't want to study physics, I am not even sure about maths, the proof is the hardest part. I have no clue  but I did score top 5% in my state in the highschool senior standard maths exam(the maths that required for student who want to study economics and commerce in uni), but that is not enough maths for engineering  ). The business information system looks like the easiest one, but I am not interested in financial data.
I know maths is really important for the computer scientist, should I study the more difficult level but I would very likely fail  I still don't know why maths is related to computer programming!! Actually, I don't even know what is computer programming, those codes look so hard!!! But sitting in front of the computer, typing something make me feel intelligent , I hope my IQ rises sharply as a result of making those hard programs  .
It is going to be a really big struggle this year, I hope I pass all the subjects especially the Java programming!!! |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
mirhagk @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:10 pm wrote: The poster seems to want to make their own hours and work at a desk job with a keyboard, this would imply a programmer. (or a mundane data entry job)
Most data entry jobs are related to financial matters I hate looking at invoices, so boring! |
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| Author: | OneOffDriveByPoster [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
tedbean @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:29 am wrote: I don't want administrative jobs, I want a job I can work anytime anywhere I want. I'm afraid it ends up being all the time, and wherever you happen to be... Fulfilling software jobs probably involve issues and solutions which take some amount of thinking and inspiration. Translation: it leaves you thinking (or possibly frustrated) even when you are not "at work". |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
OneOffDriveByPoster @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:49 am wrote: tedbean @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:29 am wrote: I don't want administrative jobs, I want a job I can work anytime anywhere I want. I'm afraid it ends up being all the time, and wherever you happen to be... Fulfilling software jobs probably involve issues and solutions which take some amount of thinking and inspiration. Translation: it leaves you thinking (or possibly frustrated) even when you are not "at work".But what is software job exactly? Some simple examples would be really good. Is designing a website such job? |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Yes but website design is different from software engineering. It has more to do with art then actual programming. You might actually like it, I'd suggest looking into it. |
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| Author: | ecookman [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Software engineering is more creation of programs that a user would use, such as Word, Quickbooks, Notepad, media players like itunes ect... writing the actual code that makes up the program. Although Webdesign does involve some programming elements, by my understanding its not as programming intensive, as mirhagk said above its more creating the layouts, making the buttons and links work and maybe some other artistic elements not so much as coding, making webpage look pretty ;p. As an example for this website the web designer would have designed or used a template to create the homepage layout, insert the specified text where the customer desires, add links and other systems such as the post counter and karma, and then create the pages where the links lead to and so on. -edit, thought of a good way to contrast the two A webpage creation program that I have had to use for my CS cources Dreamweaver, is a tool that a web designer would use to make the webpage, but the software engineer would have created the actual Dreamweaver program that the web designer would use. |
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| Author: | OneOffDriveByPoster [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
tedbean @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:03 am wrote: OneOffDriveByPoster @ Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:49 am wrote: tedbean @ Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:29 am wrote: I don't want administrative jobs, I want a job I can work anytime anywhere I want. I'm afraid it ends up being all the time, and wherever you happen to be... Fulfilling software jobs probably involve issues and solutions which take some amount of thinking and inspiration. Translation: it leaves you thinking (or possibly frustrated) even when you are not "at work".But what is software job exactly? Some simple examples would be really good. Is designing a website such job? So, I think when I said "software job" I meant jobs where you apply software engineering or computer science techniques. Even then, there is a wide range of roles. Software design can be at a high level with little coding (think UML diagrams, architecture sketches). Even for programming jobs there are different spaces: web, application, middleware, systems and embedded Each has its own challenges and I think my statement about thinking and inspiration applies to all of them. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
@mirhagk, ecookman, I have checked some design based computing degrees in my country, they are not under the computing faculty!! It is also not maths intensive. (It hardly need maths). The CS and SE course all need 2nd year level maths studies. I know maths is important for CS! That is why they have the maths in the curriculum. @ecookman, your Dreamweaver example is really helpful. Designing Dreamweaver is so much much more technical than using Dreamweaver to design! Although we might argue that designing a top rate artwork is almost impossible for someone with PHD in CS but who has just minimum artistic talent. For the Picasso type, they better choose website design. For the Newton type, go for CS and SE. For people talented in both  .
@Oneoffdrive, thinking and inspiration, I need them! But my mind is heavily loaded with fears and confusions .
Will a degree in CS make me a software designer, or do I have to get into the Software engineering degree (I have the mark to get into both types, but SE requires physics, and I would have to FORCE myself to study really hard to avoid an epic fail!!!). In the CS program, I just need to study maths (a very hard subject in itself, but I really have no other choice ). Then there is the Java programming, I am not so sure, yesterday I had a look at some codes: it made me feel like a child with an IQ of 49  .
The degree I am currently going for is a computer based degree (it allows double major in computing), should I major in just 1 computing major? and do a minor in say maths? Or should I choose a double major in computing and do all my subjects in computing? Or should I choose electives in say Graphic design from the design faculty? Or electives from the commerce so I can understand the business transactions better? Or electives from Bioinformatics? What about the Software Engineering degree, the course is not at all flexible, lots of core subjects. Another uni is offering a Forensic Computing major (crime investigation using computer knowledge), another has a major called Advanced system programming, and another has a degree in Games design and development... All these majors sound so attractive  .
The uni offer will be made final in February. |
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| Author: | neufelni [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
If you're finding Java too confusing, you should try starting with an easier to use language such as Ruby. Here's a great link that lets you try Ruby right in your web browser: http://TryRuby.org/ |
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| Author: | unoho [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
the role of a website designer has changed greatly!! I work at a startup right now and my job title is Social and news media web developer. My job requires me to do front-end (design) and back-end(functionality) Bigger companies obviously has their own designers but most startups dont have the money to hire a in-house designer. Also tools like Twitter Bootstrap makes a web designing soo much easy that anyone with a decent sense of design/UI can do it. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
@neufelni, I will have a look, but many sites seem to suggest that the Java is 'easy'. They are both hard for sure. @unoho, it would be good to have multiple skills but the world now is becoming so specialized. The uni trained website designer may still produce rather poor stuff (aesthetically speaking).
Computer scientist? Software engineer? Which one? |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Qs: how long will it generally take for me to become a skilled programmer? The SE degree is 1 year longer, is that a good thing as I can do 1 extra year of computing? How will I know I am ready to program for websites, ie, achieving professional proficiency in programming? This is really important as at the moment I know nothing and I hope 3 years of study would allow me to do some basic professional stuff. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
There is no cutoff for being a "professional programmer" - that is for whoever is hiring to decide. Generally, it's good to be familiar with some common tools and technologies (source control, relevant programming languages, related software engineering practices, etc). However, depending on the position, you will have to learn all the job-specific things when you start working, so it's more important to be a good learner. That said, there's nothing stopping you from getting hired after 3 years. Many students in CS get hired after their first year, or even just their first semester in universities with co-op. What matters more is how comfortable you are as a developer and what experience you have in related projects. This could include things you do outside of school. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
[quote="[Gandalf] @ Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:32 am"]There is no cutoff for being a "professional programmer" - that is for whoever is hiring to decide. Generally, it's good to be familiar with some common tools and technologies (source control, relevant programming languages, related software engineering practices, etc). However, depending on the position, you will have to learn all the job-specific things when you start working, so it's more important to be a good learner. That said, there's nothing stopping you from getting hired after 3 years. Many students in CS get hired after their first year, or even just their first semester in universities with co-op. What matters more is how comfortable you are as a developer and what experience you have in related projects. This could include things you do outside of school.[/quote] @Gandalf, will a SE degree give me more 'related software engineering practices'? All these terms sound so confusing!
I am starting to see that SE is a special area of CS, so does it imply SE will make a person a superior Software developer and designer? What is the strength of studying a CS degree? There must be some goodies in it. Another important degree is Computer engineering, is this a better degree? the unis say you study everything in computing, the problem I have is: I have to study a lot of physics!  What is the job prospect of studying the Computer engineering degree? |
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| Author: | mirhagk [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Software engineering and computer science are really not much different to a company looking to hire. Computer science will be more math based, while software engineering will be more science based (with a common first year of engineering). I'd suggest doing computer science if your not comfortable with sciences, and are more comfortable with math, |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
tedbean @ 2012-01-23, 1:13 am wrote: I am starting to see that SE is a special area of CS, so does it imply SE will make a person a superior Software developer and designer?
What is the strength of studying a CS degree? There must be some goodies in it. I don't think you've mentioned which university you are comparing degrees from. The distinctions between these programs are ill-defined and so every program is structured differently. Sometimes SE is just a specialization of CS, while other times SE is a completely different program in a different faculty. Usually the requirements for a CS degree are more flexible than those for an SE degree (ie. at UWaterloo if you do SE you get an Engineering accreditation which requires courses in the sciences but also qualifies you as an engineer). In general though, employers won't care about these differences. You can also take a look at: http://compsci.ca/blog/the-difference-between-computer-scientist-and-computer-engineer-according-to-smbc/ http://compsci.ca/blog/choosing-between-computer-science-and-computer-engineering/ http://compsci.ca/blog/6-degrees-of-computer-science/ And previous discussions in this forum. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
@Gandalf, thanks for the links, they are terrific!! The computer and electrical engineering are definitely out, I have difficulty disentangling my ipod cord! With the code monkey stuff, I will equally have a scary experience, all the cells in my brain must work at more than their best for me to have any chance of passing the programming! (It is possible I will be learning C++ or C first.) The university I am applying for has a good reputation in computing, it ranks consistently within the top100 list in computing internationally. It also has a good maths department (also top100 in the world).
@mirhagk, I am applying for the CS option, it looks like I have to study extensive maths also (I will have great difficulty doing maths proof, it is just too hard, I don't even know how to prove 1-1=0 ).
The CS program I am applying for can also combine with other degrees (ie, two degrees when graduate), it won't really matter for the 1st year. But it does mean less CS electives later on.  I can even combine CS with engineering (non-computing based). |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
You're welcome! tedbean @ 2012-01-24, 9:04 am wrote: @mirhagk, I am applying for the CS option, it looks like I have to study extensive maths also (I will have great difficulty doing maths proof, it is just too hard, I don't even know how to prove 1-1=0
).The simplest things are often some of the hardest to prove, because you don't have much of a foundation to work with. |
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| Author: | tedbean [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Which degree is better for computer jobs? and other Qs. |
Decided!  |
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