Computer Science Canada Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
| Author: | MikeKulykov [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
I am just wondering because i want to go to UTSC, and the coop program seems pretty intense. Therefore i am just wondering if there is a big difference between the two programs, anyone know? Is it easy to find a coop placement in computer science? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
You might find this recent thread to be useful -- http://compsci.ca/v3/viewtopic.php?t=29445 |
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| Author: | MikeKulykov [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
so in other words going into a coop program rather than a regular program doesn't have much of a difference? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
No. All other things being equal (same program, same University, working at the same jobs), being in coop doesn't make much different in senior years. Being in coop make a big different for getting that first/second job. |
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| Author: | MikeKulykov [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
If i take Comp Sci at UTSC, can i switch to coop for second year? Would that be possible? |
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| Author: | ProgrammingFun [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:12 pm wrote: No. All other things being equal
Also known as ceteris paribus  ...sorry, I was doing Economics homework
MikeKulykov wrote: If i take Comp Sci at UTSC, can i switch to coop for second year? Would that be possible? Why would you want to switch next year? Couldn't you just switch this year because the job terms happen in Year 2 anyways? ^Don't take my word for this though...I honestly have no experience with this. |
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| Author: | MikeKulykov [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Im still in grade 12, i am wondering for next year. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Switching up (co-op requirements are more than for regular programs) is typically very hard; you might have to make a case that you are showing outstanding improvements since admission. |
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| Author: | ProgrammingFun [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:55 pm wrote: Switching up (co-op requirements are more than for regular programs) is typically very hard; you might have to make a case that you are showing outstanding improvements since admission. If I was to apply to uWaterloo Coop in CS but was rejected, would I be automatically considered for regular CS? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
I believe that is the case, yes. This should be specified in the application docs somewhere. |
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| Author: | ProgrammingFun [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:00 pm wrote: I believe that is the case, yes. This should be specified in the application docs somewhere.
I know that it's specified in the BBA/BCS double degree so I was assuming that it would be the same... Still researching about Uni choices  |
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| Author: | MikeKulykov [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Im probably going to do the Comp Sci undergrad non coop at UTSC, that a good program? |
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| Author: | ProgrammingFun [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
MikeKulykov @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:14 pm wrote: Im probably going to do the Comp Sci undergrad non coop at UTSC, that a good program?
It's better at UofT St. George and uWaterloo...that's all I can tell you. Wait for Tony or someone to answer... |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
It's not a top-tier choice, and non-coop is probably a bad decision, but you get into what you can. It's likely not a bad program. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
MikeKulykov @ 2011-10-31, 9:14 pm wrote: Im probably going to do the Comp Sci undergrad non coop at UTSC, that a good program?
The program is good and is almost identical to the one at St. George. I don't know what basis Tony has for saying it is significantly worse. In terms of workplace recognition again they are very close, one difference being that there may be some UofT grads running startups downtown who value St. George students a bit higher. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Gandalf @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:41 pm wrote: there may be some UofT grads running startups downtown who value St. George students a bit higher.
Well there's at least that  In a more general case, you'd also be better connected to most companies and events. I'm under the impression that you'd be surrounded by (on average) higher quality students (and professors?), which is an important part of the environment that will be pushing you forward.
Also, St. George has a new shiny CS building. |
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| Author: | ProgrammingFun [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:07 pm wrote: Also, St. George has a new shiny CS building.
Does that make it a better choice than uWaterloo too now? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
in some ways, I do prefer St. George's campus over UWaterloo's. |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ 2011-11-02, 7:07 pm wrote: Gandalf @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:41 pm wrote: there may be some UofT grads running startups downtown who value St. George students a bit higher.
Well there's at least that In a more general case, you'd also be better connected to most companies and events. I'm under the impression that you'd be surrounded by (on average) higher quality students (and professors?), which is an important part of the environment that will be pushing you forward.
Also, St. George has a new shiny CS building. This is all true, but if we're talking about the academic program courses are synchronized between campuses. Some other mitigating factors: 1. Professors are much the same, and having a professor for more than one course and smaller class sizes makes things more personal. There are people who go out of their way for such an experience at UWaterloo, for instance. It's also very useful as a networking opportunity. 2. All of the campuses aren't that far from each other, if you want to, you can connect with opportunities offered at St. George. 3. The Bahen building isn't that new anymore. 
The important differences are like you said peers and environment. I strongly suggest anyone choosing a location visit the campus, because this is more "feel" than any objective measure. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
I'm not convinced. Anecdotally, there have been a number of "I got rejected from UofT St. George, but got into UTSC" posts. I don't recall any in reverse (that is "got rejected from UTSC, but got into St. George"). This means that there is some fraction of the student population at UTSC that is simply of a lower caliber. This fraction could be small enough to not really matter. My assumption is that this is not the case. Considering that UTSC does not even offer any Engineering programs[1], I feel that I am justified in this. re: campus distance -- no. Google suggests a route of 2 busses and a subway for the speedy transfer in just 1 hour 22 minutes, each way. If I catch the right bus, I can get to St. George just as fast from UWaterloo's campus. It's unlikely that anyone will go 3 hours out of their way to hang out with UofT Engineers. [1] http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~registrar/calendars/calendar/Guide_to_Programs_&_Courses_Offered.html#Programs |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Tony @ 2011-11-02, 9:58 pm wrote: I'm not convinced. Anecdotally, there have been a number of "I got rejected from UofT St. George, but got into UTSC" posts. I don't recall any in reverse (that is "got rejected from UTSC, but got into St. George"). This means that there is some fraction of the student population at UTSC that is simply of a lower caliber. This fraction could be small enough to not really matter. My assumption is that this is not the case. Considering that UTSC does not even offer any Engineering programs[1], I feel that I am justified in this.
re: campus distance -- no. Google suggests a route of 2 busses and a subway for the speedy transfer in just 1 hour 22 minutes, each way. If I catch the right bus, I can get to St. George just as fast from UWaterloo's campus. It's unlikely that anyone will go 3 hours out of their way to hang out with UofT Engineers. [1] http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~registrar/calendars/calendar/Guide_to_Programs_&_Courses_Offered.html#Programs The one thing I never claimed was that your peers would be of equal caliber at the two campuses. At least not in first year. At the moment there is higher demand for students to get accepted into St. George which raises the bar for entrance. However, this doesn't mean that a) the course material is different, b) the professors are any worse, or c) expectations are lower. 1st year is a mess in all universities... people drop out left and right. In 3rd or 4th year, theoretically only the people who meet the expectations remain and based on my experience the average competence is indeed comparable across campuses. If there was a huge disparity, then people coming from UTSC or UTM would start failing courses at St. George, however I've seen many cases of students mingling in courses at other campuses and doing fine. Anyway, that's me defending a point I didn't originally make - your peers will undoubtedly be different, maybe even less competent on average... but competition can be a negative thing too.
I don't really see the relevance of lack of an engineering program. StG will always have a larger selection of programs because it is the larger campus. I know there's a shuttle bus that travels from UTM to StG in about half an hour. UTSC to StG is a lot worse, but the distance is close enough to travel if you see a good opportunity to connect. TLDR: the academic programs are almost identical, peers may be better at StG but no huge disparity |
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| Author: | Tony [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
fair enough. I'll get back to this in a couple of years, if I get to conduct enough interviews |
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| Author: | SmokeMonster [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a big difference between coop and non coop? |
Gandalf" @ Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:41 pm wrote: one difference being that there may be some UofT grads running startups downtown who value St. George students a bit higher.
A better question is would be if you even wanna work at a startup where they write you off just based of what campus of UofT you went to? MikeKulykov @ Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:21 pm wrote: I am just wondering because i want to go to UTSC, and the coop program seems pretty intense.
Therefore i am just wondering if there is a big difference between the two programs, anyone know? Is it easy to find a coop placement in computer science? Go for co-op if you have the chance. It's not "intense" or anything, take one less course in the term before the coop term if you are concerned. I personally think co-op is extremely useful. Yes I guess you could find jobs if you looked for them but without co-op I wouldn't even know half the companies in my city. As for finding a placement, it depends upon the state of the economy and you personally but in my university almost everyone in the program ends up getting a job, I think the same is true for pretty much all universities in Canada esp right now when there is a mini-boom in the tech sector. |
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