Computer Science Canada

Textbooks and courses are the problem
Author:  wtd [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Textbooks and courses are the problem
Textbooks and courses in introductory computer programming are what's wrong with the industry. There are crucial things learned by experimentation. By digging for scraps of information and finding out what works and what doesn't by trial and error.

Having your hand held along the way when you're just starting out is the surest way I can think of to set yourself up for failure.
Author:  mirhagk [ Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
Depends on the textbook. Personally I think that textbooks/courses should have information about a topic, or a command, and fully describe it, but use no examples. And then the user/student must figure out how to implement it. This prevents the biggest problem in high school programming, the copy-pasters. The people who don't understand programming, and just kinda copy and paste everything they've seen, piecing things together.
Author:  BigBear [ Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
wtd you should write a textbook
Author:  Tony [ Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
BigBear @ Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:12 pm wrote:
wtd you should write a textbook

I second that motion.
Author:  2goto1 [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
Clearly the solution to this conundrum is to ban reading from courses.

In all seriousness though that's why profs provide extra reading suggestions. Smart guys make use of some of them.
Author:  Insectoid [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
My prof tends to explain a fairly basic concept with a long implementation for the first ten minutes of class. The rest of it is spent writing code. I could probably sum up my entire first month of data structures in one short paragraph:
"Class, we already learned about linked lists last year. Stacks, queues, and doubly-linked and singly-linked, and circular linked lists are very similar. I'm sure you can figure them out. If not, talk to me after class. Class dismissed, see you in the lab."

The rest of the class has been nothing but writing broken implementations on the board that are all nearly identical. It's been more akin to confirming what I already suspect, instead of learning something new.


As for textbooks, I didn't buy my CS textbook last year, and I haven't bought them this year. Any information I need is quite conveniently on wikipedia, the C++ docs or Google, with better explanations and examples.
Author:  ProgrammingFun [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
Insectoid @ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:32 am wrote:
As for textbooks, I didn't buy my CS textbook last year, and I haven't bought them this year. Any information I need is quite conveniently on wikipedia, the C++ docs or Google, with better explanations and examples.
Thank you for making my future life easier...

...you can also just pirate textbooks, assuming that they're modern enough to have ebooks/pdf versions available (assuming its CS, they should be).
Author:  Insectoid [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
You'll probably find textbooks for one or two of your classes online (though I don't advocate pirating). You will have to buy a few though. Something a lot of students also don't realize is, the teacher solution book is often available online even if the textbook isn't. Cheating is wrong, but it's nice to be able to check your answers.
Author:  ProgrammingFun [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
Insectoid @ Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:24 am wrote:
You'll probably find textbooks for one or two of your classes online (though I don't advocate pirating). You will have to buy a few though.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Insectoid @ Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:24 am wrote:
Something a lot of students also don't realize is, the teacher solution book is often available online even if the textbook isn't. Cheating is wrong, but it's nice to be able to check your answers.
I'm already doing that for IB program...one of my teachers actually gave it to me. Laughing
As for math, I can find the textbook online but no solutions Sad
Seriously though, solution books are very useful as they enhance your understanding if used properly.
Author:  wtd [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Textbooks and courses are the problem
Tony @ Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:30 pm wrote:
BigBear @ Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:12 pm wrote:
wtd you should write a textbook

I second that motion.


That would make me quite a hypocrite. That said, see the Introduction to Java or some of my Whirlwind Tours.

You'll note both are heavy on examples with little explanation.

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