Computer Science Canada Salary for Computer Science |
| Author: | MVP [ Sat May 09, 2009 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Salary for Computer Science |
Hi I haven't seen this questioned ask yet, but I'm curious. What is the expected salary from a computer programmer straight out of college? I've heard various different things, like "$10 per hour" then I've heard at starting as much as $25 per hour. I see the $25 per hour highly unlikely, but what is the realistic expected salary for a student straight out of college? What's the different salary for a 1st year programmer with an associates degree in comparison to a first year programmer with a bachelors degree? |
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| Author: | andrew. [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
According to CareerCruising.com, computer programmers generally earn from $40000-75000 a year. I would assume that new computer programmers would earn around $40000. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Depends on your experience, skill, and where you go to work. The starting salary at Google/Amazon/Microsoft is $80K + options. The first co-op job will likely be in <= $30K range though. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
the highest range for a CS degree from UW is around 70k-100k US per year (google, ms, amazon, etc). |
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| Author: | jernst [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
It also depends on how well you interview, how you sell yourself and show off what you know and what you've done. I know people with community college diplomas in comuter programming who make as much or more than people who have degrees. I have also met some people who are having real difficulty finding any work at all because of sloppy resumes, poor interview skills, lack of experience / portfolio etc. The starting salary can also be dependent on what your peers in your program are getting. When you are about to graduate try to find out some figures on average salary for your program and use this when negotiating your salary. If you have multiple job offers at the same time you can also mention this to try to coax a bit more money out of them. In general though, I think the starting salary isn't quite as significant as just working hard wherever you end up and doing a job. The rest will come when the recognize your contributions to the company. If not maybe its time to move along to a better company. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Sat May 09, 2009 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
70-100 thousand per year? is it like different if you go out from college? like i rlly i dont kno O.O 70-100 doesnt seem like that much to me O.O |
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| Author: | md [ Sat May 09, 2009 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Seriously? You don't think 70-100k a year is a lot? I think you live in a dream world... Depending on where you find work, and how good you are at what you do you are probably looking at 40-80k to start (yes it's a big range...); and almost certianly you will be at the low end of that. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
oh srry for the misunderstanding i didnt mean when you start i was thinking of like 10+ years working with the company like at that point...surely your earning more? i was thinking this job would SURELY give more than 100 thousand+ after 10 years of working (and being a good employee  )...you would earn alot...
if not then software engineers to me are underpaid  |
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| Author: | md [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ 2009-05-09, 9:19 pm wrote: oh srry for the misunderstanding
i didnt mean when you start i was thinking of like 10+ years working with the company like at that point...surely your earning more? i was thinking this job would SURELY give more than 100 thousand+ after 10 years of working (and being a good employee )...you would earn alot...
if not then software engineers to me are underpaid Very very few jobs will earn you 100k+ a year after 10 years. $100K a year is a lot of money. More likely you are looking at 50-60K a year; or if you do somehow end up working for microsoft, *maybe* 90-100K if you get promoted out of actual programming. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
ya yud need like a $45/h job to earn more than $ 100,000 /year there are still alot of job options that give that though....after 10 years of good working...they just require hard work |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Yes, but typically that requires one to leave writing code and ascend the corporate ladder of management. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
well isnt THAT the goal? to get into management? |
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| Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ 2009-05-09, 9:53 pm wrote: well isnt THAT the goal?
to get into management? For some people yes, for some people no. Many people do Computer Science more for the science or some sense of achievement beyond making more money. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
If you want to go into management, just go to a business school for an MBA. For those of us who are in the field for the love of computer science (as oppose to just money), we would rather avoid management. 
Quote: See, I'm a project manager: I couldn't tell a line of code from a line in front of a busy store. http://www.geekherocomic.com/2009/05/08/priorities/ |
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| Author: | Dan [ Sun May 10, 2009 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
There are other paths from CS then just programmer or code monkey. There is the hole admemic side of things for one witch has an even bigger range of salaries. I have also seen peoleop go from a CS undergrad to MIS (mangment information systems) witch is a mix of software devlopment and mangment. You can also always start your own business or do conslusting work witch can make nothing to being the next MS or Google. In any case i would not go into computer science for the money. If you hate what you do for a living, no matter how much you make, it will not be worth hating your life. |
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| Author: | MVP [ Sun May 10, 2009 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
OK, thanks guys. So what type of programming should I look into to stay near the 50-60k range and avoid the 30k range? |
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| Author: | md [ Sun May 10, 2009 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
*sigh* don't do it for the money - you won't be happy and you'll never actually get a decent job. People who do what they are interested in will always be more qualified and better at it then you. Choose something you like, focus on that. |
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| Author: | Homer_simpson [ Sun May 10, 2009 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
the money was actually one of the main reasons i decided not to do compsci in school, it's still interesting to me nonetheless. but still you make your own decisions just remember to pick something that you wont hate doing everyday. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Sun May 10, 2009 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
the money is what makes you satisfied at the end of the day cus that way you can have tons of money...and enjoy life through the ones you love
and dont many branches of CS give like...ALOT of money...??? like i mean $50/hour |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ Sun May 10, 2009 7:47 pm wrote: the money is what makes you satisfied at the end of the day
cus that way you can have tons of money...and enjoy life through the ones you love
and dont many branches of CS give like...ALOT of money...??? like i mean $50/hour Rewording a question you asked before won't change the answer. If the only thing you care about in your job is that you make a lot of money, don't pursue computer science. Sure, you'll make a decent amount of money, but probably not the delusional figures you're quoting. If you don't think $80k a year is a good salary for an experienced employee, you either come from a rich family or you've been watching too much television. It's been said before in this thread - if you want more than that, look to get into management, not Computer Science. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun May 10, 2009 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ Sun May 10, 2009 6:47 pm wrote: the money is what makes you satisfied at the end of the day
Not at all. Money, for the most part, is just a number in someone's database. Perhaps you are thinking of spending that money to pursue an activity that you enjoy. Though then why not just make a career out of that activity in the first place? |
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| Author: | MVP [ Sun May 10, 2009 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
I do like Computer Science, I wouldn't have switched from medicine to computer science if I didn't find it interesting. It's a major that I'm sticking with, I compromised the satisfaction of the career itself and the salary. To be honest, 40k per year is plenty enough for me, anything less than that though I really don't think I'd be completely satisfied with. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sun May 10, 2009 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
I agree with you MVP. I wouldn't take CompSci is the pay was bad, but as long as I can make a decent wage at it I'd rather enjoy my job then pursue a richer career where I'd dread going to work day after day. |
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| Author: | endless [ Mon May 11, 2009 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
today, i got my calculus teacher to sign for a scholarship recommendation for me, and she started talking about how much money computer science makes and how much they travel. in my head i was like what? but i didn't say anything, why demoralize the field i am going into. i'm sure there are some jobs in computer science that involve traveling, but my view of it is mostly in a lab/ office. i just found her view of CS interesting and thought i would share. |
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| Author: | DemonWasp [ Mon May 11, 2009 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
If you really want to earn a lot (a completely ridiculous amount, that is) in CS, you have to do one of the following things: 1. Invent something new. Invent a new public-key encryption scheme that works better than RSA (somehow). Invent the next Facebook or Google. 2. Become immensely skilled and knowledgeable about a "legacy" technology. Be willing to be the "indispensable" maintainer of a system written in COBOL or FORTRAN and get used to dealing with systems that have less power than a modern wristwatch. These positions are valuable because the system you're maintaining is often the livelihood of the owning company and there's nothing in the budget for a rewrite. 3. Become a contractor. This requires that you be a bona-fide expert - you have to know your stuff inside-out. It also requires much better interpersonal skills than either of the first two. Contractors frequently travel a lot too, all over the world, to whoever's working on a software system that needs some help. However, you'll also have minimal job security (if you're a project manager and you need to cut costs, the first people out the door are the contractors) and fewer benefits, as those don't always apply to temporary employees like contractors. The alternatives are to just get a reasonable desk job. People in those positions are quite well-compensated, with an upper bound near 6 figures. In addition, you get the benefit that you're a stable part of a team (hopefully a good one) and that you get all sorts of benefits. That kind of job has a lower earning potential, but a lot of ways of compensating you other than money. |
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| Author: | Homer_simpson [ Mon May 11, 2009 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
there seems to be a misconception here, 50k per year is very good starting salary for young single person. if managed properly its more than sufficient to pay off OSAP and make good investments such as house. however i personally dont think it's possible to get really rich on a salary it takes more than a job to get really rich. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Mon May 11, 2009 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
DemonWasp @ Mon May 11, 2009 11:27 am wrote: If you really want to earn a lot (a completely ridiculous amount, that is) in CS, you have to do one of the following things:
QFT.
1. Invent something new. Invent a new public-key encryption scheme that works better than RSA (somehow). Invent the next Facebook or Google. 2. Become immensely skilled and knowledgeable about a "legacy" technology. Be willing to be the "indispensable" maintainer of a system written in COBOL or FORTRAN and get used to dealing with systems that have less power than a modern wristwatch. These positions are valuable because the system you're maintaining is often the livelihood of the owning company and there's nothing in the budget for a rewrite. 3. Become a contractor. This requires that you be a bona-fide expert - you have to know your stuff inside-out. It also requires much better interpersonal skills than either of the first two. Contractors frequently travel a lot too, all over the world, to whoever's working on a software system that needs some help. However, you'll also have minimal job security (if you're a project manager and you need to cut costs, the first people out the door are the contractors) and fewer benefits, as those don't always apply to temporary employees like contractors. The alternatives are to just get a reasonable desk job. People in those positions are quite well-compensated, with an upper bound near 6 figures. In addition, you get the benefit that you're a stable part of a team (hopefully a good one) and that you get all sorts of benefits. That kind of job has a lower earning potential, but a lot of ways of compensating you other than money. Just remember being a contractor means you'll be working on (surprise!) a contract basis. Your job security for that time will be good and you should be paid well, but you may go through periods of unemployment in between contracts. You also typically have to pay for additional things like your own insurance plans that a company would normally pay for you. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Tue May 12, 2009 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
i find this somewhat surpriseing O.O because i kno some people who graduated with a major in CS and continued with CS and well 60 k per year...rlly wouldnt fit their lifestyle...like the person earns more than that...and he hasnt worked for even like 5 years with the company...O.O |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Tue May 12, 2009 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
also...40 k year?!?!?!? lets say minimum wage is earning 12 dollars and hour(bout how much you get for working at Bentley or another store )....they work 9 hours a day
22 days a month 12 months a year THAT is 28512 dollars a year...so 40 k would be about 18-20 dollars an hour this...is somewhat low? ok earning over 100 k per year obviously that wont happen as soon as you graduate...but still...40 k? this is how i see it to get 40 k....you need to earn 6 more dollars than a person at Zellers...PER HOUR that is low pay zellers no education CS 4 years |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Minimum wage is $9.60 an hour. So $20 an hour (40k / 50 weeks a year / 40 hours a week) means you are are getting paid more than twice as much (before taxes) as a minimum wage employee, and that is just starting out. The average adult makes $24.72 dollars/hour. So how is $20 dollars straight out of school not good? Sniper4Life wrote: ok earning over 100 k per year obviously that wont happen as soon as you graduate...
You're lucky if you ever make that much. A senior software engineer makes $78,000 dollars/year. I think you have a highly distorted sense of how much $100,000 dollars a year for an individual is. Rather than fight the facts, it'd be best to accept $50k a year as a good chunk of money and make the most of it. Or, you could marry rich. Your choice. |
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| Author: | md [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Minimum wage is $9.75 in ontario right now - not $12. The max work week that anyone working minimum wage will work is 44 hours - though in reality 40 or 37 are much more common maximums. Assuming you work 40 hours per week, for 52 weeks that's $20280 before taxes. $40k a year is roughly double that; and almost always at 37 hours per week, with overtime above that. $40000/(52*37) is $20.79 an hour, or more then twice as much as minimum wage. $40k is also the starting salary - it does go up and usually fairly quickly. And again, it is entirely dependent on where you work - most likely you will make more then $40k doing CS work. And a final note, benefits are on top of your salary and are actually usually about equal to your salary in cost. [edit] apparently it's $9.50 (despite below) but I won't re-jigger my calculations. [edit 2] I also didn't take into account things like vacations - which increase your effective hourly wage as a salary worker. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Tue May 12, 2009 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Minimum wage is $9.50 an hour. So $20 an hour (40k / 50 weeks a year / 40 hours a week) means you are are getting paid more than twice as much (before taxes) as a minimum wage employee, and that is just starting out. The average adult makes $24.72 dollars/hour. So how is $20 dollars straight out of school not good? Sniper4Life wrote: ok earning over 100 k per year obviously that wont happen as soon as you graduate...
You're lucky if you ever make that much. A senior software engineer makes $78,000 dollars/year. I think you have a highly distorted sense of how much $100,000 dollars a year for an individual is. Rather than fight the facts, it'd be best to accept $50k a year as a good chunk of money and make the most of it. Or, you could marry rich. Your choice. Edit: I misread and said minimum wage is $9.60 instead of $9.50. My bad. Thanks, md. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Wed May 13, 2009 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Dusk Eagle @ Tue May 12, 2009 10:28 pm wrote: A senior software engineer makes $78,000 dollars/year.
I start in July (graduating in June) and they are paying me more than that amount. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Wed May 13, 2009 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Where do you work? Are you making more than that before benefits? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
3 of my friends who have just graduated and will begin working fulltime this summer are starting at ~80K, which is typical of Microsoft and Amazon. I wouldn't expect bugz to make any less  |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Well the more money you can make doing a job you love the better! Just don't jump into some job that you won't enjoy just to make money. |
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| Author: | BigBear [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
80k is a ridiculous starting price, makes going to university very useful |
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| Author: | Vermette [ Wed May 13, 2009 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Worth pointing out again that starting salaries are tied to geography as well. $80k/yr is some nice scratch no matter where you live (congrats to bugz btw), but you get a lot more discretionary income for that salary in say St. Catharines than Silicon Valley. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed May 13, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
@BigBear -- those guys are getting such salaries because they are good at what they do. Simply making your way through a University will not entitle you to such. I'm just pointing this out, so that there are not misconceptions. Vermette also brings up a very good point -- the living expenses in "high salary" geographic locations will make a much bigger hit. |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Wed May 13, 2009 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
ok first i know $12 isn'tminimum wage i said its roughly 9 dollars just that someone who works at like maybe Bentley...will earn 12 dollars... and see Bugz is earning more than the "senior engineer"...i told you 40 k is and hes just getting out of Uni... with 70 k starting id be satisfied
but earning that much at a senior level? seems sort of...low.... but thanks 
and il stop arguing...and il just try to be one of the people who start off with more than 80 k
btw i have a cousin who works for blackberry and he graduated like 1-3 years ago from uni and blackberry pays alot? |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed May 13, 2009 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
@Sniper4Life -- bugz is above average, he should not be taken as a mean example. Also, BlackBerry is a product name, not a company. |
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| Author: | BigBear [ Wed May 13, 2009 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ Wed May 13, 2009 4:25 pm wrote: with 70 k starting id be satisfied
but earning that much at a senior level? seems sort of...low.... 70k isn't a lot of money look at the above example with minimum wage being (9.75 x 40) x52 = 20 280 so (70 000 / 52) / 40 = $33 / hour so almost 6k per month Seems very well to me but ... No one wants to know what my household income was last year |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Wed May 13, 2009 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Dusk Eagle @ Wed May 13, 2009 1:36 pm wrote: Where do you work? Are you making more than that before benefits?
fb. yes |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Thu May 14, 2009 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Tony i dont kno wat the company name is...so ya.... |
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| Author: | endless [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
^^ Research In Motion |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Thu May 14, 2009 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
LOL YA!!!! lol ya thats wat its called
my other cuzin currently in waterloo wants to work for Research in Motion too |
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| Author: | Hasassin [ Tue May 19, 2009 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
The highest paid programmer was $ 300,000. Now, its going to countries like India and China, mostly. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue May 19, 2009 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
There are no $300K positions that are going to India or China. Maybe you should actually check up on the quality of work that gets outsourced. |
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| Author: | ecookman [ Wed May 20, 2009 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
yea, i bet you'll only find 300K paychecks if you are one of the "big wigs" of a company, or make a piece of software that everyone will buy. usually they are about 40K starting off and after like 20+ years then you get up in the 80K range |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Wed May 20, 2009 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
80 k is like low for after 20 years...seriously....low... |
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| Author: | endless [ Wed May 20, 2009 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Salary for Computer Science |
Sniper4Life @ Wed May 20, 2009 8:23 pm wrote: 80 k is like low for after 20 years...seriously....low...
ugh, i thought we already covered this. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Salary for Computer Science |
Yes, it's really low. Computer Scientists are in a constant struggle with starvation. All sane people should look elsewhere. Seriously, what do you expect to change by insisting that any salary < $100,000 is low? Whether it's high or low is irrelevant. If Computer Scientists don't make enough for you, don't become one. Just please, do not argue that "80k/year is not a lot of money, therefore Computer Scientists make more than that." |
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| Author: | ecookman [ Thu May 21, 2009 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
I just looked on career cruising |
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| Author: | saltpro15 [ Thu May 21, 2009 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
that's what most lawyers make... hell, there are even some doctors who make around that. I think software engineers make more over time since it's an engineering job, but don't quote me on that. Anyway, I'm rambling, time to go play some COD5... |
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| Author: | Sniper4Life [ Thu May 21, 2009 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
ya a lawyer on average makes 80 k starting out... and im sorry...il shut up now... |
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| Author: | wtd [ Fri May 22, 2009 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
It might be worth noting that salaries are often heavily dependent on the level of liability associated with one's position. Of course, this is itself often tightly tied to skill level. Those with a higher skill level are entrusted with positions wherein their work is subject to greater liability. For instance, let's say you write a twitter client for the iPhone. Your service goes down for an hour due to a bug you haven't fixed yet. People are annoyed, but no harm is really done. You may lose some business, but if your software is good enough, they'll come back or be replaced by other consumers. Now, let's say you maintain the software that dispatches ambulances for all of downtown Toronto. A bug you were charged with fixing causes service to be out for 20 minutes. There's a good chance your company will lose the contract, and you may be sued. The second scenario is a much higher stress job with far greater responsibilities. The pay is likely to be quite a bit higher than that of the bug fixer for an iPhone twitter client. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Fri May 22, 2009 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Salary for Computer Science |
As a real example, I do laptop repairs covered under warranty. My colleagues handle sales. With an ideal workload, I make substantially more than they do. But, let's say I put something together wrong, and a laptop I fixed bursts into fire. Well, as you can imagine, my job is quite a bit more stressful than my coworkers' jobs. |
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